Lost : Jughead and Time Travel

Granted, I haven't gone back and watched any episodes, but I've read some entries on Lostpedia and am confused about Jughead and the main characters traveling through time.

1977:
1. Jack and company get to the Swan site
2. Gunfight
3. Jack drops bomb down the mineshaft
4. Juliet detonates bomb
5. Flash of light (detonation?)

I'm trying to figure out how that makes sense based on the 2004-2007 timeline. In 2004, when the survivors got to the Hatch, Jughead was buried underneath, slowly leaking radiation, right (hence pressing the button)? If the bomb had truly detonated in 1977, how could it be underneath the Hatch?

If it WAS under the Hatch, how was that possible, and didn't it actually detonate in 2004 when Desmond used the failsafe?

So in 2004, there was no bomb below the Hatch, just the natural pocket of energy that was slowly leaking..energy?

Schooled.

Today was your lucky day my friend.

Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist.

And what about turniphead?

Shut up talking spaceship! I'm trying to watch my favorite sci-fi show.

Why didn't he stay good?

Shut up talking spaceship! I'm trying to watch my favorite sci-fi show.

There was no nuclear detonationever, In 77 the white flash was the Losties flashing back to their correct time-zone(2007, The bomb did nothing.

In 2004, when Desmond turned the fail-safe key the hatch imploded, it had nothing to do with Jughead, I'm no scientist so dont ask me about the science of an Electromagnetic pocket implosion.

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There was no nuclear detonationever, In 77 the white flash was the Losties flashing back to their correct time-zone(2007, The bomb did nothing.

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dharma dave is only half-right. Which jibes with his name since dharma refers to adhering to the written rules.

We see Juliet and Sawyer etc. with Juliet dying of injuries, which demonstrates that the bomb didn't explode.

But first we see The Flash Sideways in which Flight 815 didn't crash, just as Daniel Faraday predicted would happen. The Losties (including Desmond) land in Los Angeles, Claire has her baby there instead of on the Island etc.

Obviously there are now two timelines. We spend all of Season 6 watching them in parallel. The very reason it is called the Flash "Sideways" is because it is in parallel to what happens on the Island.

If there is any doubt to that, we only need to check back with Daniel in the Sideways who makes it clear it was created by his plan to detonate the bomb.

Naturally there are those who choose to ignore the physicist and make up their own explanations for Lost, but hey, what are ya gonna do. There are always some jokers like that around.

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We see Juliet and Sawyer etc. with Juliet dying of injuries, which demonstrates that the bomb didn't explode.

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Irrelevant because they shifted to the present at the exact moment of the bombs detonation.

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But first we see The Flash Sideways in which Flight 815 didn't crash, just as Daniel Faraday predicted would happen. The Losties (including Desmond) land in Los Angeles, Claire has her baby there instead of on the Island etc.

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Except that Daniels prediction was that it would rewrite history around them. Daniel never at any point suggested his plan would result in a separate timeline. So this isn't even close to what Daniel predicted would happen. As the writers have stated, there is only a single timeline that cannot be altered.

Damon Lindelof: Just a quick sort of side note in terms of the way that we deal with time travel on the show - we are very paradox averse; that is to say, when our characters are time traveling, nothing that they do can change the present or the future that you have seen. Which is different than you know, the conventional Back to the Future time travel story telling.

Also:
Carlton Cuse: Right. Or that you have a different Jack popping up in an alternative reality which is different than the one that we've established.

Also:
Damon Lindelof: Yeah, and Ms. Hawking basically explained those rules in the first episode, "Flashes Before Your Eyes" where she basically said that the universe has a way of course correcting, so even if you did something in the past that you didn't do before, somehow the sort of fabric of time like swoops in around you and fixes everything so things don't go off the rails. I assume probably after "The Constant" we're going to get a lot of questions like "Well, did Penny know when she went to go see Desmond at the stadium in 2001 that he had told her to wait by the phone back in 1994?" and all of these questions, and to that we say refer to the Ms. Hawking scene in "Flashes Before Your Eyes". She gives a fairly good explanation of how everything works.

So no alternate timelines and no alteration to the timeline we know is possible.

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Obviously there are now two timelines. We spend all of Season 6 watching them in parallel. The very reason it is called the Flash "Sideways" is because it is in parallel to what happens on the Island.

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No, it isn't. This is an invention of your mind which I've proven time and time again is false(the writers words themselves rule out the possibility of your interpretation).

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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We see Juliet and Sawyer etc. with Juliet dying of injuries, which demonstrates that the bomb didn't explode.

Irrelevant because they shifted to the present at the exact moment of the bombs detonation.

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Not irrelevant. Why would detonation of an atomic device transport people in time? Did people in Hiroshima get transported to the future?

The REASON there is time displacement is that this particular atomic blast causes a time paradox. The bomb would have been detonated by people who couldn't be there if it had been detonated.

That's why two timelines are created. To resolve the paradox. If the bomb detonates then Flight 815 never crashes. If the bomb doesn't detonate then the Flight does crash and the Island timeline continues as before.

But there is NO reason for the Losties to be transported to the future unless there is some time-space anomaly being created at that moment.

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Except that Daniels prediction was that it would rewrite history around them. Daniel never at any point suggested his plan would result in a separate timeline.

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Yes he did. In the Sideways. Daniel says he created the Sideways by detonating an atomic bomb and "we shouldn't be here", meaning that The Sideways is on a different plane of reality than what is happening on the Island. He is clearly saying they belong on the Island with unfinished business there to attend to.

If you are saying that the Sideways is just "the afterlife" ,why would Daniel say "We shouldn't be here."? What sense does that make? They are never supposed to die? That the afterlife shouldn't exist? Pure silliness. Daniel is saying he created a timeline that he shouldn't have created. That scene with Daniel and Desmond was written FOR A REASON.

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Damon Lindelof: Just a quick sort of side note in terms of the way that we deal with time travel on the show - we are very paradox averse; .
Carlton Cuse: Right. Or that you have a different Jack popping up in an alternative reality which is different than the one that we've established.

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Right. They also say:

- They also say Geronimo Jackson is a real band. But it isn't.

- They also say we don't want to do an "Occurrence At Owl Creek". But that book appears right in the show.

- They also say they won't do a Sixth Sense on the audience. But the entire Season Six shows Lost characters walking around dead without knowing they are dead.

Sorry, Dude. If there is a discontinuity between what we see in the show and what is said in the interviews, you go with THE SHOW. That's what we are discussing here in IMDb. The show, not the interviews.

The writers have admitted over and over again that they are con men and unreliable narrators of their own show. They admit, every time, that they are just going to tell the audience the answer they want to hear rather than the full, honest truth.

Writer interviews are not some "honest confessional" between "friends". They are a performance. You are still just the sucker in the audience falling for their misdirection and sleight of hand. Lost interviews are full of trickery and red herrings. They meant to be at least as misleading as the show itself can be.

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Obviously there are now two timelines. We spend all of Season 6 watching them in parallel. The very reason it is called the Flash "Sideways" is because it is in parallel to what happens on the Island.

No, it isn't. This is an invention of your mind which I've proven time and time again is false(the writers words themselves rule out the possibility of your interpretation).

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LMAO! The very fact that you think you can "PROVE" something about a fictional story demonstrates your lack of distinction between fantasy and reality. This is fiction. Fiction takes place entirely IN THE MIND. There are no "facts" to "prove" anything. All you have is what is in your head.

As far as what the writers have to say about the Sideways:

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DAMON LINDELOF: We knew that the ending of the time travel season was going to be an attempt to reboot. And as a result, we [knew] the audience was going to come out of the do-over moment thinking we were either going start over or just say it didnt work and continue on. [We thought] wouldnt it be great if we did both?

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Notice the word "both".

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CARLTON CUSE: We thought just doing one [of those options] would inherently not be satisfying. Since the very beginning of the show, characters started crossing through each others stories. Part of our desire [in season 6] is to show that theres still this kind of weave, that these characters still would have impacted each others lives even without the event of crashing on the Island. Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these two timelines reconcile?

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Notice the phrase "two timelines".

The writers' words themselves rule out the possibility of your interpretation. I have "PROVEN" you wrong using your own unreliable methods of "proof".

It really was silly for you to ever start thinking writer interviews ought to be taken as gospel. Doing that would is as productive as trying to find the 70's recordings of Geronimo Jackson that Lindelof discusses.

What the writers were doing is setting a deliberate trap for people like you who want so desperately to be a factual authority on a fictional show.

Lesson 1: There are no "facts" in fiction.

Lesson 2: If you want to understand a TV show, stop trying to dig around for "exclusive, insider information". It isn't going to be as reliable as what you were desperately hoping for.

Lesson 3: To really understand a fictional TV show: WATCH THE SHOW.

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LMAO! The very fact that you think you can "PROVE" something about a fictional story demonstrates your lack of distinction between fantasy and reality. This is fiction. Fiction takes place entirely IN THE MIND. There are no "facts" to "prove" anything. All you have is what is in your head.

The writers' words themselves rule out the possibility of your interpretation. I have "PROVEN" you wrong using your own unreliable methods of "proof".

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Shut up talking spaceship! I'm trying to watch my favorite sci-fi show.

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There was no nuclear detonationever, In 77 the white flash was the Losties flashing back to their correct time-zone(2007, The bomb did nothing.

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Incorrect. The jughead device DID detonate, and that's what caused the leak in the energy that is discharged by the button when our characters find the station in 2004.

The Losties created the circumstances they intended to prevent.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

What do you think would (or could) have happened if they hadn't intervened?

Shut up talking spaceship! I'm trying to watch my favorite sci-fi show.

Juliet smacked the bomb.

LISTEN

It was supposed to work.

Shut up talking spaceship! I'm trying to watch my favorite sci-fi show.

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1977:
1. Jack and company get to the Swan site
2. Gunfight
3. Jack drops bomb down the mineshaft
4. Juliet detonates bomb
5. Flash of light (detonation?)

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Correct.

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I'm trying to figure out how that makes sense based on the 2004-2007 timeline. In 2004, when the survivors got to the Hatch, Jughead was buried underneath, slowly leaking radiation, right (hence pressing the button)? If the bomb had truly detonated in 1977, how could it be underneath the Hatch?

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No. Jughead was never under the Swan station. The leaking energy was EM energy from a pocket of Source energy(which Dharma referred to as negatively charged exotic matter), not nuclear radiation. This is why the gun case key is pulled towards the sealed off section.

The button needed to be pressed to discharge the build up of EM energy.

Again, the Jughead device was never under the Swan station.

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If it WAS under the Hatch, how was that possible, and didn't it actually detonate in 2004 when Desmond used the failsafe?

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The failsafe was a different bomb, much weaker and not nuclear. It sealed the leak in the Swan site energy that was caused by the detonation of Jughead in 1977.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

confused.com ?

Shut up talking spaceship! I'm trying to watch my favorite sci-fi show.

1.The Bomb didnt destonate, at least not in the way a "nuke" does, otherwise the Island would be destroyed or much of it.

2.Its unlikely the bomb was still down there in 2004, the reason for the button was the leaking electromagnetic energy, not radiation from the bomb.

3.I dont know all the scientific details about what happened when Desmond turned the "fail-safe" key, but it wasnt a nuclear reaction.

4.The flash of light at the end of season 5 was the characters time flashing, much like they had several times during season 5.

"In 2004, when the survivors got to the Hatch, Jughead was buried underneath"

We dont know this is true, I dont think it was, I think the bomb was either removed or detonated(in a non nuclear way)when we saw the flash.

"slowly leaking radiation, right (hence pressing the button)?"

The bomb wasnt the reason for the button(at least not the main reason), the pocket of electromagnetic energy being punctured during the "incident" was.

"If the bomb had truly detonated in 1977, how could it be underneath the Hatch?"

Again, I dont think it was underneath the hatch.

"If it WAS under the Hatch, how was that possible, and didn't it actually detonate in 2004 when Desmond used the failsafe?"

I dont think the "failsafe" that Desmond performed was a detonation, it was something else. something Dharma implemented.