Goodfellas : Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Real life mafiosos are morons in many ways, especially when it comes to handling their finances. They steal a hundred grand and they don't save a dime of it. Literally! They get a box full of money and they immediately go blow it on strippers, gambling, drugs, and God knows what else. A week later, the money's gone and they are broke again. Then they go looking for their next theft/scam and the process repeats itself. Why not blow 10K on partying and put the other 90K in IRAs and mutual funds? Is there any reason why they never do this? Is there something about the lifestyle that discourages or prohibits this?

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

The best I can figure is that if they show a pattern of saving money it might invite one of their fellow wiseguys to take it by force even by killing. No cash hanging around means less reason to be killed although there are other reasons that mobsters kill other mobsters.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

It's just a part of the mob/gangster lifestyle. They live in the moment which means spend everything you have on parties, women and drugs and once that's gone, do everything you can to get that back. I guess it's also a respect thing among those circles. The one who has most money and flaunts it, gets respect in the eyes of the other gangsters, sorta like Jimmy when he was giving everyone 100 dollars bills. But on the other hand it also leads to jelousy among others which means that they'll probably try to kill you.
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Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Good post, Sanj.

Does anyone think there is at least some element of "If I blow all my cash, the feds can't confiscate it from me?"

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Those who do save money do so very quietly

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

The guys who did the robbery were not Mafia members, although this gets labeled a mafia film. The leader, Burke, played by DeNiro, knew some mafia people, but was an independent. The Joe Pesci character was based on a non-Mafia member too.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

They were all a part of the Cicero (Vario) Crew. You are confusing being made with being a member. The Mafia has all kinds of members that are not made who are called associates. This includes guys such as Morrie who although does not get his hands dirty like a soldier is an earner. Morrie handles the bookmaking business aspect and when he needs help collecting on a gambling debt turns to Jimmy who provides muscle to get the debt paid. Morrie pays Jimmy for this service and protecting Morrie himself from those who may rob him also.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?


They were all a part of the Cicero (Vario) Crew. You are confusing being made with being a member.


No, it seems that you may be though.

I think the confusion is over 'member' vs 'Member' and what people are assuming the lowercase form implies.

Keep in mind that as Henry narrates to us (during the scene in Paulie's back yard when they're cooking lots of sausages and Tuddy was passing messages to Paulie), the mob is like the cops for wiseguys.

Now to be a wiseguy just means that you live the lifestyle.

You may know a guy who actually is a made man - he is a Member without a doubt - although you could say that you were a member of his crew, you really cannot say that you're a member.

You're some dude that he uses to run some scams now and then, or your scams are tolerated in their territory due to the fact that you're officially "kicking up" to the correct guy for wherever you're doing your scams/whatever.

You may be allowed to run a Shylock or a numbers game, if they don't already have somebody doing that there - and the cost of doing business is passing a big cut to your local crew.

If you would actually be considered part of a crew really depended on how much involvement you had, how much you could be trusted, etc... but calling anybody who wasn't at least considered part of a crew as a member (lowercase) is still stretching it way too far.

Hesh Rabkin did all sorts of work with Tony Soprano, but he would have never been considered part of their crew.

However Jimmy Conway/Burke, Tommy DeVito/Simone, Henry Hill, Christopher Moltosanti (in the early seasons of The Sopranos), and a whole lot of other people we tend to think of as "Mafia" really weren't "Members" at all - and many really couldn't even be considered "members".

Paulie, Tuddy, Billy Batts, and a lot of those dudes introduced in the scene at that Hawaiian bar (gonna go get the papers, get the papers) were actually Made men - formally inducted into one of the Families... the whole prick a finger and hold a burning card of a Saint deal.

Made men will have their own groups of regular and periodic associates - each of whom is nominally under the crew of their Capo (originally always a Made man, but not always) - the biggest point is that it's like one of those annoying multi-level marketing companies... everybody kicks up.

Non-regular associates would generally pay a cut of any proceeds to their guy... that guy coughs up to their Capo. The Capo kicks up to the Boss and the Consigliere generally gets a cut of that. Sometimes the underboss could as well, but both Consigliere and Underboss may still run crews and likely have their own scams going on - if they have anything big, they would likely be expected to give a taste to the Boss.

It really varied between Family/organization - there were even a few rare cases where a non-Made man was considered the Boss - in particular Al Capone - he was never Made. The real Scarface was not a Made man! Let that sink in for a second. :D

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

I think some of them did save their money, invested in legitimate businesses, or put their money in overseas or offshore accounts.

But then again, people who are used to getting money so easily and quickly might take it for granted that there will always be a steady flow of income, so they don't plan for the future.

Look at how many celebrities, athletes, etc. who have had to declare bankruptcy. They've made more money than most people will see in their entire lifetimes, yet they end up going broke anyway.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Didn't Paulie & Tuddie own at least one pizzeria plus a legitimate cab service? I would assume some of the ill-gotten earnings would be invested in the legal businesses.

May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

The money that comes from a pizzeria and cab stand do not square with the lifestyle that they try to lead. It just about squares with the house that they live in and that is about all. Remember Paulie's house early in the movie where the point is made about Paulie not having a phone? Kind of a crap hole given all the illicit money Paulie was making. Paulie would not starve but he sure could not live the lifestyle he was accustomed to.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

I should also point out a difference between 1960 and 1980 and later. Up to about 1980 you could go in and buy a Cadillac that might cost 10,000 and pay greenbacks for the whole purchase. 1980 was about the point where the Feds started requiring businesses to report large cash activities. I understand about nipping organized crime in the tail but I would guess over 75 percent of these cash purchases were by some person who was legit but never believed in banks or was hiding money from the family. No doubt there were others that had no involvement with organized crime but were trying to skirt the IRS in terms of reported income.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

You've misunderstood why Paulie didn't have a phone - it had nothing to do with finances. Paulie didn't want or need a phone.

This is from the film:

"Paulie hated phones.
He wouldn’t have one in his house.

Mickey called.

Call him back.

He got all his calls second hand.
Then you’d have to call the people back.

Got a nickel? Get him on the phone.

There were guys, that’s all they did all
day, was take care of Paulie’s calls."

For a guy who moved all day long…

…Paulie didn’t talk to 6 people.
With union problems…

…or a beef in the numbers…

…only the top guys spoke
with Paulie about the problem.

Everything was one-on-one.
Paulie hated conferences.

He didn’t want anyone
hearing what he said…

…or anyone listening to
what he was being told."


"Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it." Norman Maclean

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Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

I always assumed they gave most of their money away to charity.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

That's the difference between the goodfellas and the dons. The goodfellas blow their money as soon as they get it. The dons have a plan. They save their money and find a way to make it look like they earned it legitimately. The goodfellas have to find new schemes every time they run out. The dons have their money saved in legimate looking businesses and never run out.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

I don't know that everyone blows their money in the lower ranks although many do. I think part of the arrogance that allows guys to work up their nerve to be a part of organized crime also allows them to think that the good times will never end hence not saving any money.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

It's not easy to convert illicitly earned cash into legitimate assets, especially stuff like stocks and bank accounts. Those organizations report to the IRS and tax evasion has been the undoing of mobsters since Al Capone's days.

Doing so successfully is hard work and requires specialized skills and knowledge, like the kind accountants and lawyers go to school for years to learn. A lot of mob guys have pretty poor educations (not that many mob guys aren't smart) and simply wouldn't know how to do it themselves and don't have the legitimate world contacts to pull it off.

The best you can do is stuff it under your mattress and hope nobody takes your cash, and even that takes a measure of self control and discipline, personality traits in short supply among people will to beat a guy half to death over a gambling debt.

I think some guys early on got involved with nearly all cash businesses, like coin vending, but even then the business has to have some kind of legitimate dimension, which means running a business.

One reason I think loansharking is popular isn't just profiting from usury, but it's kind of like investing in a banking operation. It lets you invest your "capital" and earn interest on your loans, providing a kind of income stream. It's an off the books business that can be run on an all-cash basis.

I mean, I have a college education but if suddenly I was able to quit my day job and did some other "freelance" work that paid in cash lump sums, I would have no idea how to launder it into a legitimate income. The best I can think of would be to create fake invoices for some kind of cash business and hope not to get audited as my dummy paper trail would disintegrate -- no accepted checks, no verifiable customers, no vendors or supply expenses, etc.

And all that paper work takes time and effort, and if you're working at whatever it is that earns the cash, do you have enough time left to do the paperwork to enable you to claim your income as legitimate?

Not to mention that the Feds these days are all over bona fide cash businesses. There have been stories about people running small town breakfast places getting sued and their assets seized because the Feds think a weekly take of a few thousand dollars amounts to structured deposits and withdrawals designed to evade reporting. And these are people who can line up dozens of straight up citizens, bankers, church members, etc. who will vouch for them, not some shady guy from the neighborhood who everybody knows is up to no good.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

You have to understand the kind of guy that joins organized crime. 99% of these guys are not smart. They were/are career criminals. These guys like to live high and saving money is not a priority for them.

Even Vario wasnt the kind of guy to save money. He just made so damn much of it that he couldnt possibly spend it all. Some estimate that Vario made around $25,000 per DAY.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

It's because they're criminals and sociopaths, they're not thinking about setting up a 401K.

Also, being a low or a even a mid-level mob associate does not pay all that well. They usually live hand-to-mouth and scam-to-scam. When you have normal expenses, there's not a left over, not to mention that they usually have some kind of vice...be it drugs, gambling, women, booze

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

In the book (though not the movie) Donnie Brasco, Joe Pistone noted that an older crew member suggested to "Donnie" that he take a but of money from every score and give it to someone he could trust, so he would have some money saved. Pistone IIRC referred to it as a "Mafia IRA" and noted that most of the connected guys did not follow that advice.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Because anything legal they do with the money will make them easier to trace and once they get caugth their money and properties get confiscated.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Because after you've done your job and "retire" your family will take care of you.

And you don't want to attract attention or having anyone hide or know about your money. Anything you do to keep that cash around is a way to have people all over you 24/7.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Lots of gangsters were found to have hidden money.

Generally mob life is very fast pace. The type of person that the mob attracts usually has a few vices. Gambling and such.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

I would also guess that mob life generally doesn't attract people who are smart and humble enough to save and invest for the future. Sure, there are some like this, especially among the bosses, but these street guys featured in the film seemed more about living for the moment and showing off their wealth.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

Because there are laws. Any cash transaction of over $10k must be reported to the Feds, and, the law further forbids purposely structuring cash transactions to be under $10k for the purposes of avoiding reporting laws. Bottom line, mobsters have to keep their money in cash and, if the cops ever find that cash and the mobster can't justify why he has it, it will be seized. That creates great incentive and temptation to just spend it, and, yeah, many of these guys are too weak to fight that temptation.

Re: Why don't mafia guys ever SAVE any of the proceeds from their scams?

The laws were not as strict back during the time that these guys were going. Full size fully equipped pick up trucks and Cadillacs were selling for over 10 K and I heard plenty of stories of old coots who did not believe in banks due to the Great Depression bringing in wads of cash to pay for such things. But one thing these old coots did was file their tax returns even if everything they did for income did not make it on there. This was the catch for guys such as Henry as he was tailed enough that the Feds would know that Henry made a very significant purchase and could not show legitimate income to pay for it. And if Henry pitched the excuse that the in-laws paid for it or loaned the money then the in-laws would be checked out by the authorities then that excuse would fall apart. Johnny Roastbeef with his Cadillac should have been pinched almost immediately if the cash reporting obligation were at 10K or greater at that time. The dealer would have readily complied on such law rather than risk penalty on themselves. Jimmy would have known that and would have had Johnny whacked almost immediately rather than waiting several weeks or months. Mob guys do get hot (stolen) things such as cars but the way the scene played out between Jimmy and Johnny tells me that the Caddy was purchased legit through a dealer. The fact that Johnny was a known associate meant that there was active surveillance on him and the minute law enforcement noted Johnny driving a Caddy would have sent them digging. Had Johnny legit cover businesses that would have kept Jimmy cool as Johnny would have a good cover for the Caddy.

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