Fences : What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

The story is way too forgiving of this horrible man. It tries to make you understand him and feel sympathy for him, but it doesn't succeed. I do not know why the black community seems to rationalize their father problem but here it is "he is a monster but its ok thats just how it is"

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

I don't think they tried to paint him as heroic at all, just he wasn't monster either. He did everyone around him wrong, but he also did them right as well. He didn't shirk his responsibilities for his family, he didn't abandon his daughter, he loved his wife. Yeah, he was hard man no doubt about that, but even though he did people in his life who he genuinely loved wrong at some point in their life, they knew that he loved them and they loved him back. He just wasn't easy to get along with and the way he grew up was a really hard upbringing, so it really does say a lot about his character that he was able to come back from that be the man that he was. He was just a man, with flaws as we all do.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?


they knew that he loved them


I disagree with this, at least partially since I'm still thinking on it. His own son asks him more or less why he doesn't love him. Troy's response indicates that he has a responsibility to the boy and nothing more. He even says to his wife later that he has nothing left to give.

I think for Troy this extends to his wife as well. He brings the money home and provides for his family, he always comes back at the end of the day, but his heart and happiness is with another woman and it was her death that rocked him. His other son (stepson?) the musician, only gets money from him after he attacks Troy's responsibility as a father with him because he was in prison during his childhood.

It's only due to our own struggles that we can empathize with the way Troy feels slighted by life, like Walter White in Breaking Bad, but that doesn't necessarily justify much of what he does. Some will argue that by honoring his responsibilities he shows them that he loves them, but in my mind he's giving them the bare minimum of what he owes them. He never went to see the musician play, he ruined his son's football dream to go to college and be more than his old man, he took advantage of his brother (arguable) and he betrayed his wife's trust.

while Troy's struggle with "the devil" and death and having the man keep him down allow us to empathize some with him, it's still somewhat independent from the rest of the movie and his apathetic view of caring for people.

Then again after he leaves we hear his daughter say that Troy constantly refers to her room as Cory's room. Maybe there was something there after all.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Yeah. I'm not sure about the loving part either. Responsibility yes, but the love was hardly there.


Then again after he leaves we hear his daughter say that Troy constantly refers to her room as Cory's room. Maybe there was something there after all.


Maybe he missed his son after he drove him out, at least partly. There could be some love, but I don't think he was all that broken up about it.

The man wasn't a monster, but he certainly wasn't a standup guy either.


Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

He was just awful. He was cheated out of a mainstream baseball career and that shouldn't have happened. It though was not the fault of his wife and children. He abused them. He was already a criminal. He learned baseball while in prison. He also was a ladies' man before and after being married. He also took money from his disabled brother whom he wasn't caring for but didn't want in a home.

I can understand him wanting his older and married son to have a more secure job at that point in the son's life. I though believe he was just jealous of the younger one then having a chance. He could have at least received a college education if he didn't make it to the pros. He shouldn't have had sex with another woman to have created the daughter. He wasn't being a good man. Her mother died and he brought the child to his wife who should have told him he was on his own. I don't doubt the child would then have been placed up for adoption. All he did was work but his brother's money bought the house, and his wife took care of everything else. He was not a good man at all.


Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

It doesn't ever get to a point of making you think he's a hero. This is about passing on qualities if yourself to your children. Good or bad. You need to see the good you can take.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

I agree that the character of Troy isn't presented as heroic. I think the bigger picture (at least part of it) is that we're encouraged to forgive our parents and to realize that we are who we are because of them -- and that instead of blaming our parents for our problems, we should attempt to change ourselves.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

He wasn't painted a hero. He was painted a bitter and stubborn man who believed in duty and responibility to his family, who ultimately destroys all he has, including himself.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Precisely correct Sue-534 - and most everyone else except for the person starting this thread. The sequence when Rose (What an all-time great performance by Viola Davis) confesses that he knew the soil and roots were rotten but she put all she had in him to make him good put who he was in perspective. He held onto this as well as he could for as long as he could while constantly fighting his own self-loathing and anger, roots earned by the horrible start he had to his life and desire to be a better person than his father, the last being the only positive gift he could manage to give Cory.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Awesome! Your interpretation alone made me well up. A brilliant movie, such a shame if it doesnt get the recognition it deserves.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Correct. I didn't see anything heroic about him.
His son couldn't stand him, everyone else feared him, he irreparably hurt his wife and family, he ended up with a job he hated, a dead mistress and had a permanently damaged brother.
Then, he dies. Alone with his bat and ball. And his fence.
And life goes on. Because that's what happens in real life.
He was "allowed" to be the man he was in the movie because that's the man he was. Just because a movie paints an accurate picture of someone, it doesn't mean it's "ok" to be that way.
It just is.


"the only way through it is through it " -Jackson Browne

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Heroic? It never portrayed him as that. It showed him as wounded, deplorable, selfish, and ultimately HUMAN. It's about forgiveness and finding grace for oneself, as they ultimately did by at least acknowledging Troy's own sense of trying to do well from his own wicked upbringing.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

I wasn't a fan of that ending either. I would have preferred it if when Gabe blew the trumpet the ground cracked open and you saw fire and lava. He should have suffered some kind of consequences for the way he was. I thought maybe the wife or son would attempt to take their own life. He was such a hard person. The only one who got punished was his mistress. It makes you wonder what the message was supposed to be.

It's not that it was a bad movie because of it though. It just rang a little hollow to me.



I took the subway to Wayne Station and Batwalked up the road.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

He was human....he took care of his family ....gave his wife all the money every week...wanted better for his son and although he could not come to terms that times had changed and that college would have been great for the son he wanted to protect him from his same failures. He took care of his brother but the fact that the only reason he had the home was due to his brothers accident struck at his pride.

He took so many hits in life (battling the devil ) that sometime the devil won in a big way but he kept fighting and pushing through. He cheated on his wife b/c the liquor obviously wasn't enough to make him feel like the man he had the potential to be.

What he did wasn't always agreeable (or in the case of adultery right) but throughout the movie whether in monologues, song or straight out he explained his motives for his actions.

The ending showed he wasn't altogether wrong, his oldest son followed in his footsteps not having father figure in home , while youngest did better .

The younger son realizes it when recounts the song Old Blue that Troy always sung.

"These songs are Troy's and Cory's and Raynell's way of responding to a world that has rejected them. Troy could be victim of tragedy (like a Greek tragic hero) and kill himself, or he could have a victory over his suffering and sing the blues. The song gives him a way of both coming to terms with and sharing his grief with others. By singing about Old Blue (suffering), Troy is keeping the dog (and his suffering) alive.'


so many layers...so many points I forgot ...I can't wait to rewatch

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Yeah me neither. I got academy screener, but im going to pay to see in theater. More nuance on big screen for sure.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Are you sure that was not what we were seeing? From what I understand, if you heat something hot enough, it can glow like the Sun...😀

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

I fail to see how is shown as heroic lol. wtf?

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

From what reviews, I read Washington is more of a tragic antihero.

Whatever you are, be a good one.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?


The story is way too forgiving of this horrible man. It tries to make you understand him and feel sympathy for him, but it doesn't succeed. I do not know why the black community seems to rationalize their father problem but here it is "he is a monster but its ok thats just how it is"


Meanwhile in 2016, Donald Trump supporters are asking everyone else to "give him a chance"...

The irony.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

I liked the movie, mainly because the acting was fantastic, but the ending drove me crazy. I hated how they acted like Troy dying was so sad and how he was this great guy. Sure, he's human so he has flaws; but he was a terrible person. I didn't understand at all why the mom thought Cory was like his dad, and he "gave him the good parts of himself". From what I saw in the movie, he was constantly putting his sons down, and actively trying to ruin their lives. So you were thrown out at 14, why would you do that to your 17 old son? You were denied playing baseball? Ok, so stop your son from going to college on a football scholarship. That made sense. I'm sure Cory is going to thank his dad for that in the 1970s and 1980s when it's hard to get a job with no college degree.

I would of loved this movie so much more if it had ended like..yay this miserable a-hole is finally out of my life for good. To act like his family was supposed to be so sad he was gone? Just didn't make sense to me. You can accept and understand someone without having to glorify their behavior. Just because you die, doesn't mean everyone needs to suddenly look back on you like you were so great and kind.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

But the youngest son will still be able to go to college on the GI Bill.As long as he doesnt get killed in Vietnam.Always a possibility looming large in the story,I think.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Remember that he choked his own son with a baseball bat, and that's the last thing we see between him and his son. We don't even get to see whether or not he had remorse for that. How are we supposed to feel bad for this guy when he does something like that in, what, one of the last scenes? I hated the way it ended. Bad ending. And if the play ends that way it's bad ending as well. Should have been a lot better. Not worth seeing again.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

My brother-in-law did worse things to my sister and niece and nephew than this guy. He cheated on my sister, she pretty much supported him, he was a mean drunk, he almost choked my niece to death, he held a gun to my sister's head, etc. He even hit me with a hard rubber/plastic? hose when I was little, and I still have a scar on my leg (my sis is quite a bit older than I). It was weird, but he was actually a pretty nice guy--when he wasn't being a bad guy. His friends loved him. I swear, he had one of the biggest funerals I've ever been to. I spent my whole life, as did my mom and dad, wondering why my sister stayed with him (he also had a slew of kids from former marriages). After his death, suddenly, to listen to my sister, he was the greatest guy to have ever lived. She still misses him all these years later. Even my mom speaks well of him. My dad and I were the only ones who would have to bite our tongues and our eyes would cross, when we would have to listen to my sister and her kids talk about him. To be honest, I really didn't like this movie--but I think it's because it seemed authentic. It was just--life.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

You gotta take the crookeds with the straights.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules. "
-Walter Sobchak

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

I think a lot of people are forgetting that this movie is based on a PLAY.

The movie is only showing basically what the play showed.

I remember reading this play back in high school, but it definitely took on a whole new meaning for me now as an adult with more experiences in life.

I thought the movie was phenomenal. Not a "feel good" movie at all...but definitely some of the best acting I've seen in a long time.

If you don't like the ending....oh well! Some times life doesn't have a "happy ending". Some books/plays/movies have sad/hurtful/unspoken endings that sometimes leave you abruptly wondering about a lot or thinking long after the movie/book/play is over. This is one of those such plays/movies.

There is a LOT of symbolism in this play that can sort of go over the audience's head when watching the film. It's very subtle. It doesn't spell it out for you. But because we discussed this play in-depth in school I remember some of the nuances and symbolic nature of the play.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

The story paints Troy as an anti-hero: someone who wants to be liked and thinks of himself as likable, but truly isn't.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

"Like you? Who says I got to like you? What law is there saying I got to like you?" He said that to his son. And if he lives by that philosophy then he does not care about being liked.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

The film didn't paint him as heroic, rather we discovered the underlying motivations behind how he exhibited his own mental suffering. As he says "you gotta take the crookeds with the straights". Troy was a man who's cognitive dissonance and life experiences accumulated into how his psyche informed upon sculpting his life. It is important that, by the end of the film all of his most meaningful relationships decayed; in some respects the devil that he battled were the demons in his own mind. His self-loathing was the biggest contrast to the optimism of his wife, son, best friend, and even his disabled brother.

All of the aforementioned had hope, had promise, but Troy could not find such warmth within. Troy felt guilty about exploiting his brothers situation, bitter about his circumstantial upbringing, resentful about his opportunities to follow his dream, and unapologetic about his love affair. Effectively he wanted what we all wanted, and suffered what we all suffer through. Ultimately what I, as a buddhist, take from this amazing film is "What parts of Troy Maxxon is reflected in myself? How can I overcome my own suffering?" I think that's how we all should think, when reflecting on powerful artworks.

Que Sera Sera

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?


The story is way too forgiving of this horrible man. It tries to make you understand him and feel sympathy for him, but it doesn't succeed. I do not know why the black community seems to rationalize their father problem but here it is "he is a monster but its ok thats just how it is"


You're a stupid racist. The message isn't much different than The Great Santini.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

What I saw was a horrible man who was doing the best he could given where he came from. But even this horrible man was a better man than his horrible father and his son (Cory) was a better man than him. I think you can extrapolate that Cory's son might rise above all of them in terms of moral character. Sometimes evolution takes generations.

But it wasn't "ok" - he disappointed his best friend who always looked up to him and pretty much lost that friendship, he broke the woman who thought they were best friends and invested herself in him accordingly; lost that love, and his son flat out left his life entirely. You reap what you sow but he's a 3-dimensional human monster qualities AND loving qualities.



"Did you think I'd be too stupid to know what a eugoogly is?"
-Zoolander

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

It's honest. The man had demons but he had good characteristics too. Most people are not heroes or villains. We are all imperfect. We all fall short. We all make mistakes. But this guy had a horrible childhood, grew up under the worst circumstances. Yet he still was able to get out of jail, get a job and raise a family. If he was so horrible, why did his son turn out so good. Would the kid have turned out better if he spoiled him rotten and never demanded that he work and show respect ? Would the kid have done better if his dad just ran out on his family. I am white, but this guy reminds me of my dad.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Yeah, he was flawed, but thats life. They did a ot of showing why he was the way he is with his past and his father. He wasn't heroic, rather forgiven.

I felt like he walked the line of being goofy dad and stern, tough love father. same with being supportive and cheating husband. he walked a lot of different lines that contradicted each other and it was hard to hate or love him.

I think Rose still choosing to love him after his affair and death is what made her a strong character.

Also, I'm kind of tired of people not being able to talk about this movie (or other movies with majorly black casts) without constantly bringing up that its a "black movie". I'm usually pretty frustrated with overly PC people, but can't we just call it a movie?

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?


It tries to make you understand him and feel sympathy for him, but it doesn't succeed.


For me, it did succeed. That's one of the movie's greatest successes. While it's true I was often frustrated by his behavior, and felt he was in the wrong as far as Conner's advancement in life - but as Rose said, "he filled the house". Yeah, he was heroic. Heroic, but certainly imperfect. And we saw the results and harm of his imperfections. Many movies have characters who are mostly (or completely) protagonists or antagonists. That's not life. In life, people are acting according to their self interests and beliefs. I got that from these characters. Troy was a complicated man and I definitely felt sympathy for his plight.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

I'm watching the film now and I don't think this movie can just be applied as a 'black' movie. I'm hispanic and see both my parents in Troy. I'm disabled and my own father has turned me down for money, saying 'go get a job and earn it'.Troy had a tough life and it wore him down. sometimes tough love is all people know. i've seen it with my own two eyes.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

Very Depressing Film. It's Like Several Characters Have to Feed Off each Other To Function Somehow. And Then Several End Up Running Off The tracks.
And the Answer is Always Salvation in Lord Jesus Christ.

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

He did have an enormous ego to be sure. For all of his loving his family he couldn't separate his need to be "the man" with their need to have lives of their own.

Re: What a horrible man. And the movie paints him as heroic?

That part where Denzel does that fake ass stumble in front of Viola in their bedroom when he finds out that he fathered an illegitimate child was overrating.
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