Superbad : Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Now that I've had a chance to mature a little more (I was 23 when I first saw Superbad in theaters), the potential date rape issue is complicated and just a little unsettling on the outset.

Seth's plan to get Jules drunk would have been date rape regardless of what type of penetration or act was involved. Tongue, fingers, dry-humping, wouldn't matter. The climactic twist and catharsis reveals the subtext of Seth's scheme wasn't so much "get Jules wasted to take advantage of her" as it was "get Jules drunk because I'm a fat loser and this girl I like wouldn't possibly get with me otherwise." In other words, it's a misguided play born out of self-loathing, but would still be rape regardless.

While the way the situation resolves itself is sort of noble and poignant, the fact that sober Jules doesn't kick drunken Seth's arse to the curb after his tearful confession lets Seth skirt by with admitting a plot to do something awful that is thwarted because Jules never drinks. On the other hand, judging by the ending mall scene Jules is also giving Seth a second chance and an opportunity to learn and grow up. We're left to assume that he will.

Evan gets himself wasted so that having sex with already wasted Becca will be 'ethical,' but ends up being man enough to realize it's still wrong. He puts into practice what he's been preaching all day. It's unclear whether the girl Fogell actually does bang (for a few seconds) is sober or not. I hope she is.

The key thing to keep in mind about Superbad is that in one way or another, big or small, most of us were terrible in high school. Ultimately Seth and Evan don't win by getting laid but by being placed in sketchy situations and having their integrity tested. IMO Evan passes, Seth barley makes it, but if he evolves into a better human being over the summer, then lesson learned.

Don't get me wrong. I still love Superbad. There's just a lot more to think about now.

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Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

This ties into the reason I consider this the most artistically interesting of all the Judd Apatow comedies: the movie gets away with being hilarious in spite of its main character, Seth, being (when you think about it) a hideously unlikable person. Seth is fat, loudmouthed, condescending, rude, sexist, interrupting, selfish, unpleasant, and suffers from unbelievably pathetic delusions of grandeur, one of which is that he's going to get a girl drunk enough to basically molest or date rape her. It IS troubling when you think about it. And yet the character is hilarious and memorable.

But hey, one of the greatest stories about an adolescent ever told--"Saturday Night Fever"--got away with making audiences (particularly women) LOVE someone who was even more pathetic and immature than Seth, although then again Travolta had teen-idol looks.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Ugh I hate to bring up this argument, but...

get laid, fast.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Yeah. It's hard to even respond intelligently to somebody like this OP. It just makes me so angry and emotional. If people like OP had their way, any sex before marriage would be "rape". Sex while smoking pot would be "rape". Sex between too men would be "rape".

I hate that OP is perpetuating this ridiculousness.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

That's not what I was trying to say.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Excuse me, but what else do you call a plan where you scheme to get someone drunk so that their decision-making is questionable in order to have sexual relations? Isn't that the textbook definition of a date rape?

Grant discovered raptor eggs in Jurassic Park

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Seth was kind of a jerk in that movie.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Drunk sex isn't rape. Rape is sex without consent. You are absolutely ignorant. It is people like you that inflate prison systems, ruin the lives of innocent people, and hold society back as a whole.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Actually you are the ignorant one who would inflate a prison system and ruin someone's life. Drink seed IS rape by law. Someone who is "drunk" is unable to consent to sex due to altered mental state. Therefore, having sex with a drunk person is taking advantage of them, referred to as rape. Learn the facts beforehand, hence you look like an idiot.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

That highly depends on your definition of drunk though. I would imagine that in most countries there are blood alcohol levels at which a drunk person can claim diminished capacity. I know that there are in my country it is used for legal purposes determining if or how guilty someone can be when he is drunk out of his mind. But not everyone who has had a drink or a few is above that level you have to be really drunk.

While I agree, that getting someone drunk with the express intention of diminishing that persons capacity far enough to have sex is despicable and surely can constitute date rape, there are hordes of drunk people that meet and have sex every day without any of them having the feeling that anyone raped them afterward.
As a matter of fact I had sex with a girl once while I was so drunk that I couldn't remember a thing the next day. So did that girl rape me? I certainly didn't feel that way back then. But apparently I actively participated, and did get it up etc. etc. it's not exactly the same than *beep* someone who is passed out. Maybe I would feel differently if I was a woman. But then again assuming that would be sexist.

Even more interesting case would be if both participants are so drunk out of their mind, that they don't remember anything. Did they rape each other then?

So no I don't think that having sex with someone who is drunk is rape per definition. Depends on much more than that.

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Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

You're a moron, it isn't date rape. It would be date rape if he somehow got her drunk without her knowing about it. If were to voluntarily drink alcohol and then give consent to have sex, it isn't rape.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

If you think having sex with someone who is drunk is rape then you are a moron.

Thousands of people go out to bars every night, get drunk and hook up with another drunk person. You bbelieve every one of those cases is rape?

You can be drunk and still be able to give consent. The laws are for when somebody is so drunk they are unable to give consent.

I truly doubt these kids wanted to get these girls that drunk. The the movie ends it basically shows that.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

if she drank alcohol voluntarily and then consented to sex there's no rape about it

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)


if she drank alcohol voluntarily and then consented to sex there's no rape about it


Exactly, unfortunately we deal with people who don't live in the real world.

Here's the thing, most date rape cases come down to he said/ she said. The guy always said she consented and the woman says she didn't consent. The laws with alcohol were brought in so someone couldn't have sex with someone who clearly was too drunk to give consent, and just say, "she gave me consent". Then once again it's his word against her word.

I was reading a case where a 14 year old girl claimed she was raped. She didn't remember anything that happened. The guy of course said she consented, once again, you have a girl that clearly doesn't remember what happened, the guy says she gave consent. Well you have his word that she consented, and she doesn't remember anything. By this there would be no way to convict the guy.

Well, there were witnesses at the party that testified just how drunk the girl was. A girl even testified that she saw the guy carry her to the room. So she was so drunk she wasn't even walking.

No way these laws are to convict people who are drunk. You are fully capable of making decisions when you are drunk. If this was the case how could they convict you for dinking and driving, if you clearly can't make decisions for your self while under the influence, how can we convict someone for getting behind the wheel and driving?

Becca clearly was aware what she was doing. You have Evan who is way too shy, and way too nervous to make a move on Becca. Becca knows Evan is coming to this party, She used alcohol to get up the nerve to hit on Evan. Are you seriously saying that if Evan had sex with Becca that night Evan could be convicted of rape? If anything Becca was the aggressor in this situation. Evan had been drinking too, so could Becca be convicted of rape? No that's ridiculous.

I've had sex in my life with women who have been drunk. I was married, the wife and I would go out and drink, and come home and have sex. You seriously can't say my wife was unable to make a decision for herself and what happened was rape.

What you have in this movie is a couple of young, naïve kids who don't have a lot of self esteem. Seth knows Jules likes him as a friend, and Seth likes Jules. Seth is hoping she is drunk and makes a "bad" decision. No way is Seth hoping that Jules is passed out drunk so he can take advantage of her.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

As long as she agrees to do it then there's no rape involved.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

Seth tried to get her drunk so he could bang her but unfortunately for him she wasn't so nothing really happened, although, by the looks of it she would have had sex with him if he was sober.

Well, whatever. It's a movie so I'm not going to dig in too deep.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

I think this is a heated topic and people already enter discussions emotional (women AND men) about it so it blurs discussion but I agree with another poster in this thread. If you get someone drunk purposefully to have sex with you, it's a calculation and you don't plan on getting drunk and waiting for him or her to get so drunk they don't really know what they're doing then...ummm yeah. THAT IS RAPE.

HOWEVER - if you're going to a party where there's someone you fancy and you know you're both gonna be drunk and you hope something happens and then something DOES happen after a few drinks and you both know what is happening then that isn't rape, hell that's how people DATE in the UK lmao.

I'm a girl and I would consider myself a feminist in the traditional sense, I don't run a feminist tumblr blog or have any sort of disdain for men as a whole (most feminists don't btw you only hear the loud ones) but I believe in respecting each other and men not abusing women and women not abusing men and I could go for a night out and get drunk and if someone I liked and fancied hit on me I could go with it and end up having sex and I wouldn't wake up and say I've been raped and THIS is how lots of guys imagine the scenario - you inherently blame the girl (not always! Please dont bring out the whole NOT ALL MEN crap) and I understand that because you don't want to believe that one or more of your mates or someone you know could be a rapist. But the truth is if a guy has sinister ideas about supplying a girl with drink whilst he waits for her to get *beep* faced and then he carries her away and has sex with her then he is raping her. She is too drunk to even walk, off her face and he has been with her the whole night not even drunk or very drunk himself. That's what I would consider rape. Think about it. It's sinister, calculating and not the harmless let's both get a bit drunk and shag type scenario a lot of you imagine.

Anyway...I love this movie and it cracks me the *beep* up. I think Evan is a stand up guy, really sweet and respectful and although he is anxious and socially awkward and a little lame will likely grow out of that and gain some confidence and be an all around good stand up man. Seth is an immature, self-loathing co dependent *beep* But he loves Evan. So we love him. He is a total dick about girls but he's also a total loser and I don't think his motivation is the latter scenario I mentioned because he isn't a creep or sociopathic and even though he's a dick about girls there's no evidence he's actually a 'misogynist' just a young insecure guy. He got drunk at the party. He wanted to go to the party and have a good time but he also wanted a chance to get with Jules. He will hopefully grow out of his shady behaviour but it wasn't born out of a rape fantasy or anything about thinking badly about Jules or wanting to hurt her. He just didn't think she would get with him when they were both sober so we wants to go to a party where they both get drunk and hopefully then he has the courage to try and make something happen. It's warped but not sinister.

Re: Superbad and the date rape issue - seven years later (spoilers)

And this is a major problem with today's society.

Getting drunk is not an excuse for doing stupid things or for allowing your morals to alter.

Having sex with a drunk person is not rape, never will be rape and anyone who truly believes it are also fooled that murderers & child molesters are not guilty since their head must be messed up to commit such acts which makes them easily fooled idiots.

Yes- having sex with a drunk person (especially if you aren't) may be morally wrong and not a cool thing to do. But also is buying a $500 item at a yard sale for $1 if the person doesn't know what it is or making a bet with someone when you already know the result or keeping the extra quarter when a cashier gives you the wrong change... None are or should be illegal, but all could be morally wrong.

Don't mix what is OK as a choice with what should be illegal or we will become a world where inter-racial activities are illegal, pre-martial sex is illegal and big brother decides everything for you (like the left is trying to do now)
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