Westworld : I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

The "logic" of the Westworld "rules" seem changeable, meaning there are no rules listed or declared and the original supposition changes constantly. Some may be entertained by this, it's all surprises, right? But others like me feel cheated, or fooled. IE: robots can kill or harm guests, they can be programmed by various interests to do anything, including kill. Originally it was stated they cannot harm guests. It isn't so much that the story changed, and is allowed to change, it's more that the viewer can see there are no rules or logic. No matter what premise they set up, it can change. I find that to be trickery, not creativity, and irritating.

IE: there is more than one Dolores, and more than one storyline for her. There may be dozens or even hundreds. That means you never know which Dolores you are watching, or following, and no matter what happens to her or with her, in the blink of an eye she could be dead or alive or changed, with no logic or rules. Again this is a cheat, not a thrill. It's not a super mind f u c, it's not even clever... it's hollow.

IE: who makes and controls the robots? It seems anyone can, and do. So no matter what level of intelligence or self awareness they have, you can never be sure who is programming them or for what purpose or even if it's working, or will stop working. This is not interesting to me because it means the story, and the premise of the story, it's foundation, is non existent. It means nothing matters, nothing is in a framework, no matter what happens it has no consequence or logic. It's easy, do anything, then do anything else. What's the point of that? An exercise in nonlinear storytelling on steroids, or in 5 seasons some of it will be self evident? I don't think so. Give it time? Nope. Learn to love it? Well, if the filler was not boring, that might be okay. be patient and wait for the robots to go on a killing spree and watch the moneyed guests start crying and begging for their lives... yaaaaaawn, how long do I have to wait for that? Do i even want that?

I know, so don't watch it, it's not for me. But that's not the point, is it?

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Why so impatient? Just enjoy the series. It Will all come clear in time. ;)

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

It's not impatience, it's frustration. I expected more along the way and it seems half of every episode is cringeworthy. When I see them setup some reveal, or attempt to create excitement, I feel myself feeling sorry for them, and for the people who think they love this show. I guess there are a lot of TV shows that seem embarrassing to me. I loved the long story of Lost, but the last episode made me think the people who hated every episode may have been correct.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I TOTALLY agree with you cashmccall . Please see my new thread regarding preferences about "clear plot or shockers." When a show becomes all about viewer speculation and viewers waiting for answers, to me that is just bad writing because viewers get all confused about what is going on. And it has nothing to do with patience. We just want to understand each episode and not feel fooled or tricked.

If there are two timelines and William is the MIB what is the big secret? How does keeping that a secret add to the quality of the show? To me, if we had answers now the show would be better.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

While I think what you say is somewhat true in a general sense, the fact that the robots cannot harm humans is not an inherent trait of the world in which the show takes place. It's still a man-made construct within the show, one that can be broken. In fact, breaking that rule is kind of the inciting action for the overarching plot of the series.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

You sound like such a sheep..

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I enjoy Westworld a lot, but your criticisms are valid. Nowadays, there are basically two ways to create a science fiction story with long-term appeal: (a) offer a clear, compelling narrative that engages the audience with strong characters and powerful themes, or (b) hedge your bets by creating layers of mystery, inserting MacGuffins galore, promising inventive "twists," and generally laying down a landscape of endlessly manipulable mythology. Here's something apropos that I wrote in another post: "The MIB's maze quest seems like paint-by-numbers mythology to me. It's as if the producers decided the show needed another layer of mystery to justify further episodes and generate 'twists,' so they ordered the writers to come up with something, anything."

In short, I recognize the gimmickry at work here, and share your displeasure with it to an extent. But I still like the show.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

You've gone way off the trail with this one, partly due to a negligence of attention paid to the mostly-dialogue-driven 'Reverie' plot.

The Reverie update connected the hosts' programmed memories with their gestures in order to make them more "human".

It has already been stated that when the hosts get "wiped", their new storylines are simply written OVER their old ones.

The malfunctions started when the hosts began to have access to their previously written-over memories, which everyone involved believed to be "wiped".

As a result, the gestures being connected to their written-over horribly violent memories are causing the hosts to act out violently.

It's all there in the dialogue. The rules were established, the hosts were updated to act on memory and now that they're on a clear path to sentience, have begun writing their OWN rules.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Concrete vagueness and ambiguity, in other words..

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Um, how?

That was very straightforward and not in the least bit vague.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Some people just can't follow a simple story line. Sucks to be them.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Seriously. That and a VAST majority of users on IMDb are shallow consumers, binging ungratefully while crapping out pessimism in the form of whiney complaints laced with claims to be able to do better without the raw talent or motivation to leave their basements to do so.

Internet discussions have become sadly predictable.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.


Some people just can't follow a simple story line. Sucks to be them.


I lack the mental acuity to appreciate the deep intellectual aspects of the Big Black Peen, the tits, the gratuitous violence, and the sappy story of Dolores and William. Someday I hope I'm as smart as you.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Hobnobber is touching on something that I feel as well.


Concrete vagueness and ambiguity, in other words..


Maybe it's my profession as a software engineer, but they are using vagueness and ambiguity to gloss over complicated happenings in a clunky manner. And the writers think using terms like reverie and wiped make everything smooth.

As a viewer, Sci-fi is often about having suspension of disbelief if there is a payoff with exploring philosophic areas or having events occur that can't in reality. So, I'll give them a chance.

The rules really haven't been defined or revealed that well.

How come QA can overwrite Clementine's (the other prostitute) code to frame Bernard for incompetence? Ok, Bernard did say something about QA's programmers hacking Clementine to make her violent. This was the writers biggest faux pas. Isn't there source control or some record of update? Ford is smart man, he should have security in place that should make code tampering impossible, unless he wanted it to happen.

What are the reveries exactly? What are Ford's motivations? He doesn't seem to make many mistakes, therefore he wants sentience and anarchy in the park. Ford and Arnold supposedly have opposing views on sentience. I'm guessing Arnold is a ghost in the machine and has replaced Ford somehow. All will be revealed I suppose.

I like the show, but the last few episodes haven't been as tight and smart as the first three. We're at the cusp where it can go downhill very quickly.

Also why the hell was the nitroglycerin real? I swore it would turn out to be a prop. Maybe it was a controlled chemical that could explode on command.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.


We're at the cusp where it can go downhill very quickly.

It has gone downhill already. The new board member is ridiculously over the top, the sequence with Dolores, William and Lawrence was the least inspired of the whole show so far and the "shocking reveal" that someone is a host was just a cheap trick.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Oh yeah. The board member was such a cringe-worthy mustache-twirling stock CEO type. "We'll just make her young and show her naked. That will make her unique!"

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I thought the Clementine section was quite well done.
From a software perspective they have basically just tweaked her settings and removed some of the barriers, like don't attack humans. Yes I don't doubt that Ford if he could get on the machine could have forensically worked out what changes had been done and when and by whom, but they had no intention of letting him get access and as Bernard notes to him and therefore to Ford the tampering was obvious.

From a narrative perspective it establishes a bunch of stuff.
i. You can format a host to appear human.
ii. The no killing humans restriction is a software driven restriction that can be over written and not an Asimov 3 laws kind of a deal hard coded into the core processor/brain
iii. Obviously reinforces the Ford is a genius thing and the Delos corporation is evil. Its a little hackneyed but this is first time we have a from the top order to do bad stuff.
iv. Points i and ii are foreshadowing the latter events of the episode so Bernard can be a host that presents as a Human to all the systems in the park and hosts are only constrained from harming humans through code that can be overwritten.

Now I think that is quite clever writing as its working at multiple levels and establishing some of those rules and logic chains.

The reveries and their vagueness is deliberate. It's a major part of the mystery. Did Ford write them, was it old Arnold code. Is ford trying to replicate Arnold's work? if So why? etc etc.

The Nitro isn't real. It is it is an explosive that can be controlled remotely similar to MiBs explosion in the jail. "We want a pyrotechnic effect at the jail" . Again this explosion was already foreshadowed by the smaller explosion and the way the park handles such things explained so they can use explosions later without worry about 'how can the park allow real nitroglycerine' questions.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

A very straightforward explanation, I don't see how explaining it any other way could provide anymore clarity.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

generally if the two timelines theory is correct it will make a lot of your problems go away. it in the older timeline (with dolores and william) the hosts are a lot more free to punch, detain, and otherwise rought up the guests. the bullets also seem to have weight to them (william fell after being hit by a host's bullet, and when he took his shirt off later he had a bruise.)

however the rules changed after the accident, which we assume was something very similiar to the actual movie, where a host or hosts went terminator on the guests and killed everyone but william (which is probably the whole church flashback thing)

so if there are two timelines there are two sets of rules, just as rules change at six flags after some dumb *beep* falls off a ride and dies.

i think arnold created the maze and once a robot reaches it activates their self-consciousness memories... humans probaby cannot enter the maze for some reason or other or william and dolores will get separated temporarily. so she goes in, and all the robots go terminator and kill everyone, but dolor stands up to them and saves william

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.


generally if the two timelines theory is correct it will make a lot of your problems go away.

That's possible, but remember that you are also saying this: "You won't really understand the full nature of the story you are watching until at least episode 8 of a 10-episode season, and perhaps not until episode 10 itself."

I don't read the OP's argument as complaining that the complexities he lists cannot be cleared up somehow; rather, the problem is that they need to be cleared up. Perhaps too much is riding on the deviousness of the writers. Some viewers don't like the "what is real?" question to bubble under every scene they watch.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

The lack of patience in people these days is unfortunate.

Most films only reveal the endgame within the last twenty to forty minutes. Why can't the same thing be accomplished in a ten-hour story?

I read these complaints on this board and most of them are riddled with impatience, pessimism, lack of plot understanding due to the whiners staring at their smart phones for half the episode, and self-entitlement.

Absolutely pathetic.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

They have plans to make this 5 or 6 seasons. So make that a 60 hour story.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Usually other things are developed along the way in a movie or in a given tv show. Characters exist outside of their plot twists...Bernard to me has been completely reduced to his plot twist. This show is so heavily reliant on the mysteries that they're teasing out, it falls apart without some huge, satisfying endgame. It's like everything exists only for an endgame that is the Maze, Ford/Arnold, and Who is MIB.

Not to mention, yes other mediums reveal the endgame at the very end, but at least we can try to piece the clues together to answer the question ourselves along the way. I feel like with this show, the questions haven't even fully been asked. The idea of there being two timelines isn't something the show has broached, in any way, it's something the audience created. The maze is something we know absolutely nothing about except that it's "important" and the sole motivation for some of these characters. Same goes for MiB, who they should have given an arc for already, but we're still waiting here to know more about him other than he's invincible, he wants answers about the Maze, and he's important. Arnold has been developed a bit, along the way, so I'll give them credit for that.

If a show can't really stand without its season finale, then I find it to be a poor show. And EVERYTHING about this show relies on its season finale right now. Considering its almost episode 8 and we have more and more questions brewing.

A rose is just a rose.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

So your brand of impatience demands that they wrap up every facet of this entire story by the finale or it's worthless?

You sound grateful.

Some shows are not for everyone, but since you're such a pro at writing scripts, have you ever considered to attempt such a feat? You make it sound so easy.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

LipSipDip I do not think it is about patience, it has to do with wanting to understand what is going on to more fully enjoy the show as it unfolds.

You write: "I read these complaints on this board and most of them are riddled with impatience, pessimism, lack of plot understanding due to the whiners staring at their smart phones for half the episode, and self-entitlement. Absolutely pathetic."

I do not even own a smartphone and watch each episode multiple times. It is laid out in a confusing manner all BECAUSE the writers want some big REVEAL without understanding that style is not just frustrating but a nightmare. They tried that with LOST and nothing was ever answered.

Tell the viewers what the heck is going on. It makes for a more enjoyable show. I don't understand the device of these "shockers" waiting to unfold in gasp worthy and jaw dropping scenes.

I do not demand that they wrap up the entire story and never said it is worthless. I do think it is flawed. It is not about being "easy" it is about the way they decided to structure the story.

I do not have to be a script writer to have an opinion about how a show unfolds. I actually KNOW many writers and you can check out my blog here: http://marjorie-digest.blogspot.com/


I am not here to be confrontational LipSipDip.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

They are telling viewers what is going on, but at their own creative pace.

Throughout the season we have been gradually introduced to different aspects of this hyper-realistic and well-structured futuristic company which is not something that would go down easy in one bite.

Each episode subtly shows us new wings, floors, manufacturing stages, history, etc. of this strange new place.

The pacing is just about the best part of all of this.

The fact that so many people are ignorantly impatient only tells me that they're doing a fantastic job.

You said it yourself: you want to enjoy this story "as it unfolds", so why not try allowing it to do so?

(Keep in mind that this is only the first season. There is a lot more in store for us, it just requires a little patience and faith in the creative minds involved.)

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

LipSipDip I do not find myself to be "ignorantly impatient." And viewers' impatience does not validate excellence. I just find this show to be too much of a struggle to follow because there are gaps in confusing timelines and characters' identities that are not explained. Too many people do not get what is going on.

THE NIGHT OF unfolded slowly and yes, I was impatient..... but the mystery did not have SO MANY unexplained scenes that viewers were this confused. We discussed just the mystery and speculated who the murderer was.

I do not understand your need to insult others who disagree with you in a non confrontational way. Why the put downs? We can all have different opinions without insulting each other.

And judging from the style of these writers... season 1 will end with more questions than answers. I would not be surprised if they end with a cliffhanger and we have to patiently wait almost 2 years for season 2.


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Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

LipSipDip I have kindly asked you to leave me alone here. I do not share your opinions. I do not consider impatience a validation of ignorance. I am talking about the unappealing way the story unfolds for me and others.... and it is clear we disagree. Kindly move on. We do not have to argue and this is not a debate.

I do not need YOU to analyze my "issues" in your constant confrontations. My opinion is just that: my opinion. And you can own your opinion. It works well.

I wish you the best. Enjoy the show.

me: www.marjorie-digest.blogspot.com

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Whatever, crazy.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Another thing to keep in mind as we near the last episodes:

The replay value of a slow-burn with twists and turns is very high. Going back and catching every little cue after the reveal(s) is almost similar to watching it again for the first time. Like a scavenger hunt :)

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Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I don't know about tricked, but more frustrated I'd say. The thing that's meant to be entertaining about twists and turns in the plot, is that we should be able to pick out the clues along the way, and maybe even connect the dots ourselves. What annoys me about this show is that we know which twists will be coming because they're the conventional ones for any sci-fi (secretly, a main human character is a robot//parallel time lines//future bad character=present good character//robot rebels) but none of them are layered in the right way before the big reveal. It's like we're just supposed to watch this with our brains turned off, because they're not trying to drop clues about the big reveals and they'll bend the rules if need to be, to plant a big reveal.

Take Bernard for instance. What really were the clues about being a robot other than because of the sci-fi trope. Ford appeared to move in close to him in one random scene a couple episodes ago? How is that at all definitive? It could have been the camera angle, it could just be Ford coming in from a door that wasn't in the shot, and I assume it was meant as a light jump scare (which is often a purpose in it of itself). Him having nightmares about his [fake] son? That's something any human could also have and would have, if their child passed away.

A rose is just a rose.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

The OP has a point. The mystery aspect worked for first two episodes but then there are more questions raised than answers. Episode 7 at least had a punch in the form of a reveal but episodes 3,4 (5,6 less so) left the audience kinda frustrated. I think Westworld has to be taken as a film, where the end changes everything and answers questions.


Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I don't get your Dolores complaint. There isn't more than one of her. She's one host, but they've rewritten her numerous times to suit multiple roles. We've only ever seen one role of hers, we just have been told that she had more. We've been watching the exact same Dolores, she has just been subject to experiences outside of her current coding that has led to more awareness for the character.

As for the killing rules, they've clearly established that the rules say they can't. However, it has also been hinted that the ones who have been misbehaving have some sort of coding "flaw" that Ford believes stems from Arnold's time. Whether that's the case, we don't know. But, its very clear that those breaking that rule have issues in their code because their code says not to.

Furthermore, they have never said anyone can control a robot. In fact, they've made it pretty clear that Delos and by extension Westworld have a monopoly on this type of programming. It's why they are super protective of it and as Felix's friend said last night, every part of the robot contributes to them not being able to leave. The exception being the non-Delos sanctioned hosts like Bernard.

Bernard also as a twist makes perfect sense. If we are talking about rules, the show NEVER established that everyone involved were humans. In fact, if the hosts were being used to survey the premises, then it makes perfect sense that somewhere along the way a host would have been created to do some design work. Its like our current society with technology. Humans do the jobs until a machine is created that can do it better.

Any other rule questions are likely to be answered in the future, but most of your complaints are unsubstantiated within the narrative itself.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

It's not about understanding the writers long story, it's about appreciating it or enjoying it... I don't. It's kind of like the Tom Cruise problem, only for writers. I know it's Tom Cruise acting so I don't believe or enjoy anything he might do, no matter how original or professional. When I watch Westworld I "hear" and "see" the writers writing and making things up, and none of it interests me, that is, when comparing their choices with what I imagine the future of AI to be. I'm not saying I could write it better, but I am saying I'm not that impressed by what they write. It's just not making it from paper to screen, it's a fail.

Eventually, and probably soon, some, or many, critics will write what I'm writing. I don't wish anyone to lose their job, but they'll get another job, probably, when this show is cancelled. The 5 year rumor is annoying, pretentious and premature, it won't last 5 seasons, maybe not even 2.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

The show was renewed for another season, so..

Also, every single thing you watch was made by "writers writing and making things up", so...?

Lastly, why are you wasting your time watching a show you don't enjoy?

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Hoping it gets better, but quickly losing hope.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

Explain what I missed in the show that confirms there is more than one Dolores at any given time. Apparently this went over my head. Her scenes seem pretty linear as does her growth in independence. Maybe you are taking liberties and making assumptions to better fit with your complaints. Which convinces me your opinion is biased.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

the guy makes good points, I feel a bit like him too.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

100% agree.

i watch it cos i want to find out what happens.. but with great frustration and annoyance.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.


The "logic" of the Westworld "rules" seem changeable, meaning there are no rules listed or declared and the original supposition changes constantly. Some may be entertained by this, it's all surprises, right? But others like me feel cheated, or fooled. IE: robots can kill or harm guests, they can be programmed by various interests to do anything, including kill. Originally it was stated they cannot harm guests. It isn't so much that the story changed, and is allowed to change, it's more that the viewer can see there are no rules or logic. No matter what premise they set up, it can change. I find that to be trickery, not creativity, and irritating.


The idea of robots not harming nor killing guests was based on the premise that everything was PERFECT, that is, no glitches in the coding of the hosts, no divergences, but as the episodes have progressed, we've seen that the hosts have been tampered with and also Stubbs told Elsie that one wrong line of code and the hosts can do whatever they want.


IE: there is more than one Dolores, and more than one storyline for her. There may be dozens or even hundreds. That means you never know which Dolores you are watching, or following, and no matter what happens to her or with her, in the blink of an eye she could be dead or alive or changed, with no logic or rules. Again this is a cheat, not a thrill. It's not a super mind f u c, it's not even clever... it's hollow.


About that, today is the first time I've even read there could be multiple Dolores' out there. I'm thinking it's more like either 1) The obvious premise that she's experienced these events in prior loops OR 2) the visions she's having are simply reveries implanted in her, she hasn't actually been in any of these locations, but they are all part of her backstory.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I really get your point, but i think it just spends alot more time setting up its own rules and internal logic then we are used to in these kinds of shows. I think the writers have done this very intentionrally because the story is already panned out over so many season, which we arent really used to.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

To the poster who asked or missed it, Dolores saw a copy of herself in the Mexican town of the dead walking in the parade. It was not a memory or an illusion, it was another Dolores in another story. Plus, they have said she was one of the earliest robots and one of the favorites, there is no way there is just one of her following one story. Now, are they going to show dozens of her? No that's too confusing, but to show there is more than one is clever, I suppose. It also means you can't trust any story as being real or continuous, which is the point, I guess, but I find it tricky and annoying because it doesn't go anywhere, it's just out of left field trying too hard to be weird.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.


To the poster who asked or missed it, Dolores saw a copy of herself in the Mexican town of the dead walking in the parade. It was not a memory or an illusion, it was another Dolores in another story.

Actually, I interpreted that as a hallucination. Dolores then had her fortune told by ... herself, sitting across the table from her.

Seeing images of herself "from the outside" is part of the process by which Dolores moves toward consciousness. Before she can become a truly independent agent, she must learn to imagine herself as one -- as an "I" that can choose and act without regard for her programming and/or the orders she receives from management. This development is consistent with the "bicameral mind" theory of consciousness that the program has explicitly cited.

See this thread for more discussion: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0475784/board/thread/262381203?d=263271324#263271324. Here's what I said there:

Episode 5 update: Dolores seems to be making good progress toward self-awareness that transcends her programming. The hallucinatory, bicameral voices that she is still hearing are beginning to be displaced by newly arrived "analog I"/"metaphor me" versions of Dolores, such as in the carnival parade in Orgyland. Dolores is beginning to employ these separate-yet-integrated, manipulable avatars of herself to engage in creative planning, a classic act of subjectivity: "I imagined a story where I didn't have to be the damsel."

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

That doesn't mean there aren't multiple Dolores's in multiple storylines.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

It's the same Delores in multiple timelines. Why bother hosing off the hosts after the guests are done pounding and/or killing them if they would just be replaced with any given number of new versions?

It's already been stated that it's always the same host with a written-over memory anytime anything about the hosts' stories change, hence the hosts beginning to access their previously-believed-to-have-been-written-over old memories.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

You are making a series of assumptions that are your assumptions and are never laid out in the narrative.

There is only one Dolores host although she may exist in various eras.
Guests can not attack humans because they are coded not to do so but you can override code because its just, you know, code.

If you step away from the context of a story and assume for a moment that this level of AI was possible and robots had been created then how would that actually be? If you can get to the code and add or remove memories or hide thinks from the robots perception then yes they would always be in a state of nto knowing what was real or not real.

You seem to want a set of hard and fast 'rules' for the narrative world that don't apply to our real world. I can't quite work out why you think the world would require them or how setting artificial constraints would improve things.

I imagine they are going to go beyond the base plot of the original movie and I don't expect the finale of season 5 or 6 to be Teddy chasing the MiB round the control centre whist the rest of the robots rampage int eh park.

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I was wondering how you wound up feeling about the show now that you had seen the entire 1st season, assuming that you did.

If Person of Interest was the story of the Singularity, or as I like to say, the story of Skynet told from the perspective of Skynet, then Westworld is about what it takes for an AI or just an intelligence to become "awake". It is a beautiful mix of existential and buddhist philosophy. It is also a rich, complex story with great characters that hopefully has many chapters yet to go.

Do you still think the story is hollow? What is hollow for me is the actions of most of the humans. The hosts are the ones I came to care about. Of the humans, Ford, the Asian tech, and the security chief were the only redeeming characters.

The logic seems self-consistent to me. The park is not for humans. The maze is not for humans. Westworld is the place for the hosts to become enlightened, to become truly alive, in a way that most humans are not.

John

Re: I feel tricked, not entertained or thrilled.

I could not have put it better - the cycle of real / imagined characters, dreams-within-dreams, mysteries each more grandoise than the previous one .... was exciting the first time, engaging the next 2-3 times and positively cringeworthy or worse, dull, thereafter.

The characters of old Billy, Barnard and Ford were pretentious beyond comprehension as they kept dishing out cumbersome and somewhat fanciful metaphors, objectives and explanations. The 'quests' turned out to be far from a surprise twist and were instead silly, comical and downright bogus. A pity because I felt the acting was great and stars like Anthony Hopkins add much class.

Some of the plot elements were absurd

- the way Maeve controlled the two Techs;
- the manner in which Maeve effortlessly manipulated others, changed attributes and fiddled with the system;
- Bill's transformation into the Man in Black and his conversion
- some of the moves by the characters such as wandering off alone into the park

There were neumerous minor plot glitches / continuity issues that I noticed but I could have taken some liberties with those had the main story been engaging. I feel the filmmakers deliberately overanalysed the plot instead of a simpler plot of sentient-machines-run-loose.

A highly frustrating watch.
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