Fiddler on the Roof : I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


Even though the Christians in Russia would have celebrated Christmas in January, rather than December(Chanukkah never stretches into January).



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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

Yes, Chanukah was around in 1905.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;



I know it was around back in 1905. It was around ever since the Maccabees beat the Greek Syrians. I meant in the way Jews celebrate it today(the only reason they make it so festive is because it falls around Christmas--they said so themselves).




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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

Well, I'm sure they lit Chanukah candles, ate latkes, and played with wooden dreidels.
Maybe some of the better-off citizens (like Lazar Wolf) gave out "gelt".

But at least Chanukah never was as COMMERCIALIZED as Christmas.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


"But at least Chanukah never was as COMMERCIALIZED as Christmas."

True, but, that just comes with being the major holiday of the dominant religion in the world.



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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


(the only reason they make it so festive is because it falls around Christmas--they said so themselves).


I'm sorry, can you please give a source for this statement, for I am Jewish, and I have never heard of Christmas as a tie into Chanuka. Chanuka is one of the most joyful holidays, because it was a victory of the few against the many, in both physical and spiritual sense. To connect it with another religion's holiday is a little insulting to me.

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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;



They told me that themselves that Chanakkah is their least important holiday, & the only reason they make so festive is because it falls around Christmas.






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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


They told me that themselves that Chanakkah is their least important holiday, & the only reason they make so festive is because it falls around Christmas.


I don't know who "they" are, but religious Jews' observance of Chanukah has nothing to do with Christmas.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


They told me that themselves that Chanakkah is their least important holiday, & the only reason they make so festive is because it falls around Christmas.



I don't know who "They" are, but "They" DO NOT represent all Jews.

Chanukah, is a very important holiday, with very important meanings and symbolism. Chanukah is the story of how the Syrian's were trying to exterminate the Jewish Religion, by making it a crime to follow the commandments and study the Torah. But even though the Syrian's were many and ruling, the Jews, who did not have a large army, fought back and won. When the Jews took back the Temple, they found that the Syrian's had desecrated it, and destroyed all the pure oil used to light the Menorah. But they found one bottle, that lasted 8 days until they were able to get new oil. That's why we light the candles.

When the Syrian army was still in charge and it was illegal to study Torah, the Jews would find secret places to study, and they would post people as look outs, so when the Syrian soldiers were spotted they would hide their holy books and take out a top so they could tell the soldiers they were playing a game. That is where the Chanukah Dreidle comes from.

The reason why we give gifts and make it festive, it two-fold, one, we are supposed to publicize the miracle. That's why we light our candles in windows or where possible, outdoors. And second, because the Syrians, attempted to squash our Torah learning, we give presents to the children to help encourage their learning.

The Chanukah story and miracle took place in 139 BCE, and the Rabbi's declared it a holiday starting the next year. Christmas didn't come around until sometime between the first - fourth century (depending on what part of Christmas you are referring to) CE, over a hundred years later.

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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

I'm Jewish and I think the OP (who's not Jewish) has a point. Yes, every Jewish holiday is important--but the Jews here would have to admit that Chanukah is not as important as the Torah-ordained holidays of Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot, and certainly less important than the High Holidays. Yet more Jews in the USA know about Chanukah than Sukkot or Shavuot. This is obviously due to Chanukah's proximity to Christmas. And while Chanukah "gelt" (money) has always been given, I can't help but wonder if the presents part had been influenced by Christmas.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


Thank you, Bens, for backing me up.






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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


The Chanukah story and miracle took place in 139 BCE
There was no "miracle". Hanukkah celebrates the rededicate of the Temple. The reason it lasts eight day/nights is because of Sukkot, which they missed. Ask your Rabbi sometime, he'll tell you.

--
Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


There was no "miracle". Hanukkah celebrates the re-commemoration of the Temple. The reason it lasts eight day/nights is because of Sukkot, which they missed. Ask your Rabbi sometime, he'll tell you.


There were TWO miracles.

First: that a small number of Jews won against the large world power Syrian army.

Second: That a small jug of oil lasted 8 days when it should not have lasted one.

It has nothing to do with Sukkot which is only 7 days. The "8th" day is actually a separate holiday called Shemini Atzeret which literally means "eighth assembly". According to Rashi, one of the great commentators,after the 7 days of Sukkot, God asks us to stay with him (at the Temple, in Jerusalem) for one more day. He compares it to a king who invited his sons for a visit and at the end of the visit asks "my sons please stay an extra day for it is hard to be parted from you."

Read the Torah. It tells you.

F.Y.I. I am a proud Orthodox Jew, who has grown up her whole life learning about her history. I have never missed a Chanukah, and never plan to.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

Excuse me, but the miracle was that the oil for the menorah was only supposed to last 1 day, but lasted for 8. What does Sukkot have to do with this?

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


(Bump.)

Happy Chanukah!!!



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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

I think "they" is marketing types. (At least in the US!) Chanukah is a lovely holiday that happens to fall near Christmas, so if you wanted to sell stuff, you'd emphasize the 8 days of gifts thing and take advantage of Jewish kids feeling the pressures of the dominant culture.

To the original question: I see where you're going. Christmas would have been celebrated in early January rather than in December. So were Chanukah and Christmas treated as similar? I think not. Chanukah would probably not have been affected by the later-to-come Christmas (and marketing!) so it was easy to keep it traditional.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;


Thanks. It was just something that crossed my mind, at the time I created this topic.



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Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

I don't know why some people have this habit of making Christmas and Hanukkah into a "Christian vs Jews" thing. They are both beautiful and spiritually significant celebrations and they have nothing to do with each other. My Dad was Jewish and my Mom is Christian and we would celebrate both as a family, and we kids were well versed in the meanings behind each holiday. I was so blessed to grow up in a multi-faith family where we learned about both religions and were taught to be respectful to people of all beliefs. I've always wished - even more so in these disturbing and troubled times - there were a stronger alliance between Jews and Christians. Without Jews there would be no Christians...we grew from the same seed and are equally misunderstood by much of the world.

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

Interfaith marriages are a direct transgression of Jewish law. A Jew who marries a non-Jew has abandoned one of the most fundamental tenets of his or her faith. (That was Tevya's dilemma when Chava married Fyedka.)

It's nice that you have had a positive family experience, but it's wrong to try to redefine traditional religion beliefs to accommodate your own wishes.

---
You got your mind right, Luke?

Re: I Wonder If The People Of Anatevka Celebrated Chanakkah;

I would argue that Christmas was also influenced by Hanukkah too, like Christmas lights and just the relationship between lights and Christmas in general. Christianity and Judaism have been influencing each other for thousands of years really after their founding. Christians and Jews may have often lived separately, but they interacted regularly.
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