Predator 2 : Failure due to casting of Glover

Failure due to casting of Glover

Glover is a fine actor, but he was not leading man material and could not sell this film. It looks and sounds great and is a fine sequel in its own right, but its missing the beefcake type hero and Glover seems to be trying too hard to make it all work as an image.

It needed someone like Van Damme to lead the way, if Arnie didn't want to return. Glover could have still come along for the ride.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

I really like Glover but agree. Van Damn would have beena perfect fit. Good call 🤙

Cringe crew represent'n.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

The studio wanted Steven Segal, who I feel would have worked fine as well, but Hopkins the director didn't. Hopkins wanted an everyday joe in the lead and he didn't like Segal's character's suggestions. He made a big mistake here.

Patrick Swayze also had to bow out due to an injury he was recuperating from during his filming of Road House.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Interesting. I think Van Damns personality on screen might have done a better job than Segal's.

I like Segal but he lacks self deprecating humor. Van Damn can do that better than him…connecting with the average Joe.

Patrick would've been interesting. No doubt he would've given it his best and killed it.

Cringe crew represent'n.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Plus both Arnie and Van Damme are European with thick accents, the film could have rode off that similar dynamic brought forth by Schwarzenegger in the first and both made cool dude action heroes.

Swayze could have worked, yet Segal is no-nonsense and he could have dry humorous quips.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Steven Segal never had a muscle in his life. He never looked like this:

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

But he was a martial arts expert and had more of the action hero/tough guy image to go with it. A martial arts fight with a predator would have been awesome in this film.

If Glover was so hot in the action film world, why didn't the movie poster say: Glover
Predator 2

We know because it wasn't fitting of Glover's image.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Danny Glover wasn't an "action star", but had plenty of experience in those roles. Between actual action flicks and dramas with violent scenes (like Witness), he had plenty of experience. Lethal Weapon 1 & 2, Witness, Silverado, Bat 21 - all came before Predator 2. He had the chops and Predator 2 is easily the best Predator sequel.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Best is all subjective, because I know that many would gravitate towards Predators.

Glover may have had the action film experience, but he wasn’t super duper star POWER. That is the point. He want carrying Lethal Weapon on his own. He couldn’t!

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Steven Segal did not have star power, LOL. Stop it.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

No! But he still had a following in the late 80’s as a new action star. They would have still used his name to plug it.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

I liked Crispin Glover in Back to the Future.

My password is password

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

He turned out to be a damn good actor actually.

Then there's Donald Glover. For a second I thought that was Danny Glover's son.

Cringe crew represent'n.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Donald Glover is Crispin's son.

My password is password

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Oh yes now I see the resemblance. Thank you. 🙂

Cringe crew represent'n.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Wasn't VD (LOL) going to wear the Predator costume?
Or maybe it was an Alien one?
I believe one of those two.

How Silly Can You Get? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumJ3wkg78A

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

VD would have been too short for the Predator size.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

He was too diminutive, as I mentioned.

Van Damme, as I also mentioned, would have been better fighting the thing instead.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

One excuse is that he was too dehydrated.
I dunno.
I guess believe whatever version you want to.

Which I also agree with.

How Silly Can You Get? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumJ3wkg78A

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Van Damme was only just hitting the action scene too when Predator - '87 was released with Bloodsport - '88 and Cyborg - '89. I just love Kickboxer - '89, which I think solidified him. A predator film around this time then I feel would have been great for him.

The producers obviously wanted to go down the beefcake action hero route initially with Predator 2 like the first, with those they considered casting, before settling on Glover. It left them without a marquee name to light it up.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

There's too much dialogue in this for Van Damme. His acting improved by the time he made Nowhere To Run, but I think Glover was a better choice than JCVD.

I do think Swayze, who the studio initially wanted, would've been very good as Harrigan.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

He did have plenty of dialog in Lionheart - '90 aka Wrong Bet, in which he gives one of his best performances.

Van Damme doing several roundhouse kicks to the predator's head, would have been an awesome sight to see.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Ah yes, that film is called A.W.O.L. where I'm from. It's one of his better films.

Predator 2 had Joel Silver as a producer, and he always favored diversity in his movies, so Glover was always going to get the nod over everyone else.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Well as it stands, Glover wasn't in the main running at first. I don't see it as woke casting, just a miscall due to marquee light-up draw card. Fans were disappointed due to Arnie not returning.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

I don't see it as woke casting

It's not really a question of woke, Silver has always just preferred to have more diversity in his films.

A more recent example is Bullet To The Head. The two leads were originally Stallone and Thomas Jane. When Silver came on board that movie, he fired Jane and hired some Chinese guy to partner Sly (who had no chemistry with him) for no reason other than he needed a POC. Also, Mac in Predator was written to be white, silver changed that and cast Bill Duke who was 44 and ran like an old man.

Glover was most likely Silver's choice, he would not have tolerated Van Damme at that time. Maybe a few years later.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

If Silver need a POC, then he was doing it for some agenda and not what would have worked best for the film. Why would a producer sabotage their own film for this reason?

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Tbf to Glover, I think he's talented, and at least earned the chance to be considered for this film. Silver worked with him in Lethal Weapon, so they tend to work with those they trust.

I personally find that black actors tend to just to play themselves in films, or just play their role with attitude/over act, or they do an impression of their character, rather than embody a character (like most good actors do). That's why older (better) films have less diverse casts, because they needed actors to play a proper character, not a heightened version of themselves.

Glover, on the other hand, I find much different, especially to the likes of Denzel and Will Smith and the Rock etc, who all overact and play the same role in every movie. Glover can be funny, and does have a good presence, which suited his role in this film. I can see why they went for him over the others.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

To be considered yes, but as far as selling the film on his performance and character, he really didn't knock it out of the park. The last time I watched it with a buddy over a year ago, we both found Glover's presence lacking in some believability for what he was asked to play.

My main point, was in an alternate universe, if a bigger action star was cast and a similar plot, the film could very well have been a much bigger hit. It did have a lot to live up too.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

My main point, was in an alternate universe, if a bigger action star was cast and a similar plot, the film could very well have been a much bigger hit. It did have a lot to live up too.

Yeah I can see that. But only Arnold or Stallone. I think the other action stars were still learning their trade. This was a big budget 20th century fox movie. The smaller budget Van Damme movies were fine for him. Silver wasn't going to touch an up and comer with a barge pole.

They cast Glover and surrounded him with talented actors like Busey and Paxton, but the movie was not a big success. It did well on video and is very popular with the fans and has lasted the test of time, and is a million times better than the other sequels, so they did something right.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

The film was very stylish and that is what it has going for it. I also like that late 80's cinematic feel and atmosphere it has.

Stallone may have worked, but that would have also been an obvious replacement for Schwarzenegger. Van Damme was new on the scene, yet he had charisma and good looks as well which would have worked in the film's favor, especially with female audiences. Viewers went to see films because of Van Damme and even Segal.

I can understand the doubts, but I feel he would have pulled off the action star role better than Glover. When I watch the film, I just feel a bit disappointed and that it could have worked so much better without Glover in the lead.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

I can understand the doubts, but I feel he would have pulled off the action star role better than Glover.

Oh yeah, JCVD definitely would've pulled off the action role better than Glover. I'm not so sure about the acting. There's a few scenes he would've struggled with, namely the confrontations Harrigan has with Keyes, which are some of the best in the film.

Swayze would be my one and only pick if not Glover. Seagal lacks charm (yet I think Under Siege is a great movie, I don't get it).

Arnold not returning was a huge deal breaker. There's two sides to this; one claims arnold didn't like the script and said no, the other side says arnold agreed and was all set to return, but then backed out and his character was re-written as Keyes.

The truth is somewhere in between, most likely Arnold wanted to do Predator 2 but got more money to be in Total Recall instead, likely because Carolco were splashing some incredible amounts on cash in those days and 20th century fox couldn't match it.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

I did read in the IMDB trivia that it was also a money issue and Schwarzenegger wanted an extra 250 g's than they were willing to pay him:
Arnold Schwarzenegger said no to Predator 2 (1990) because of a dispute over money. According to producer John Davis, it was over an additional $250,000, which the studio refused to pay him.
Who can prove this is true though, except for Arnie himself. That does seem like pittance in lieu of what the film may have garnered at the box office if he had returned as Dutch in an urban jungle with the predator.

I like Swayze, but my mind just can't fixate on him in this film for some reason. Must've been the impression the first film made.

Arnie was usually pretty shrewd with his choices during this era. He had a knack of what would work well for him and what would be popular.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

No arnold over a measly 250 g's? Bunch of cheap bums. They should've paid Arnold whatever he asked.

Arnie was usually pretty shrewd with his choices during this era. He had a knack of what would work well for him and what would be popular.

Yes. Arnold was desperate to work with Paul Verhoeven after watching Robocop. He also loved the Total Recall script. His agent would've advised him to take that film over a sequel, especially since the last sequel he did (conan) sucked. He knew TR would be big, and was right cos it made almost $100m more than this film.

I like Swayze, but my mind just can't fixate on him in this film for some reason. Must've been the impression the first film made.

Maybe because he's more athletic than imposing? As long as he played it like Next of Kin, he'd be fine. I think he would've been great.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

…especially since the last sequel he did (conan) sucked.
Awwwww! I love Conan The Destroyer - '84. It is a go to favorite of mine. An easier watch. Not as impressive or epic as the first, but still a lot of fun and a nice sense of time and magic.

Yes, if for that small amount, Arnie could have been nabbed and apparently Hopkins was given a month to shoot the film and a month for post production. Arnie could have still done TR.

Maybe because he's more athletic than imposing? As long as he played it like Next of Kin, he'd be fine.
I haven't seen Next Of Kin or Steel Dawn. Do you recommend both?

I like Road House - '89 and Swayze did well here, but it was more a grounded and familiar action role.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Awwwww! I love Conan The Destroyer - '84. It is a go to favorite of mine

It was more fantasy and lighter than the original, wasn't it? I preferred Red Sonja, that was fun, buy maybe just nostalgia. I can see why people enjoy Destroyer. I really like Tracey Walter's character in that film, he's always hilarious when I watch him.

Yes, if for that small amount, Arnie could have been nabbed and apparently Hopkins was given a month to shoot the film and a month for post production. Arnie could have still done TR.

Arnold trashed this film in his biography. I think he just regrets not doing it.

I haven't seen Next Of Kin or Steel Dawn. Do you recommend both?

I'm always hesitant to recommend films in case they suck and I ruin someone's night, but yeah, I thought Swayze was very good in both films, and I'm a fan of Steel Dawn in particular, but Next of Kin is good if you're a Swayze fan. Steel Dawn has the great Brion James in it and Swayze's wife, Lisa Niemi. Very underrated film. That film made me a Swayze fan.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

It was more fantasy and lighter than the original, wasn't it? I preferred Red Sonja, that was fun…

Red Sonja was the same director too I believe. I like both, but prefer CTD. I like the way it brought forth its tale and I loved the sense of awe in it. The foreground miniature effects are very impressive too. Well cast as well and I love all the characters. Worth it for Grace Jones.

Arnold trashed this film in his biography. I think he just regrets not doing it.
When he saw the finished product and the style of it, he likey would have seen what he could have made of it. Just realized now, 2 ozzie directors for first 2 predators.

I'm always hesitant to recommend films in case they suck and I ruin someone's night…
I'm am open to others opinions if they share same/similar tastes. I like Brion James, so you have gotten me sold and Neeson is in NOK too, so that is a bargain as well.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

The sfx were good in destroyer, I'll give it that.

McTiernan is an Ozzie?!

Let me know what you think of the films if or whenever you see them, TC.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

McTiernan is an Ozzie?!
No! It was the dop, Don McAlpine. I knew there was some ozzie connection between the 2.

Will do.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Most of the crew were australian in predator, weren't they? Why was that? Iirc they all worked again on action jackson with carl weathers when they met on predator.

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

I personally find that black actors tend to just to play themselves in films, or just play their role with attitude/over act, or they do an impression of their character, rather than embody a character (like most good actors do). That's why older (better) films have less diverse casts, because they needed actors to play a proper character, not a heightened version of themselves.

What a load of fucking racist bullshit.

Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Laurence Fishburne, Sidney Poitier, Forest Whitaker, Ving Rhames, Jeffrey Wright, Don Cheadle, Djimon Hounsou, James Earl Jones, Louis Gossett Jr…. Just “play themselves with attitude”?

You fucking dumb cunt, that’s a fucking racist LIE

GO FUCK YOURSELF DICKHEAD

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

You must be obsessed with me pointing out a genuine fact of the Predator 2's box-office failure. It didn't attract audiences like the first and the star billing was a huge contributing factor.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

A $35M budget producing $56M gross worldwide is not box office failure by any stretch of your whiny imagination.

+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

The film was a box office failure and failed to reach expectations of the first due to its higher budget and box office ratio returns. Any professional bean counter would tell you that.

Budget
$35,000,000 (estimated)
Gross US & Canada
$30,669,413

Opening weekend US & Canada
$8,784,943Nov 25, 1990
Gross worldwide
$57,120,318

It didn't even make its budget back in Nth America alone.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

It didn't even make its budget back in Nth America alone.
Too bad for you and your whiny perspective that it had worldwide distribution.

I hope this fact doesn't keep you awake at night.

+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Does it keep you awake at night to think that it wasn't as popular as the first and wasn't a smash hit?

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

Not at all, Einstein. It was a very well done remake with an excellent cast, especially Glover in the lead. If hordes of others didn't get it, that doesn't bother me in the least.

Why are you so obsessed about it that your whining about Glover is in several threads here?

Why can't you seem to have as much enjoyment in the film merely because it wasn't as much of a success as the original?

Are you afraid someone is going to criticize your enjoyment of the film based on its cost to profit ratio?

You have a very fragile ego if that's the case.

Sleep well.

+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

If it doesn't bother you, why are you inferring that I shouldn't be bothered, because you like it the way it is? I feel it could have been better.

This is a discussion board and I have thrown out a bone as to why the film "financially" didn't live up to the expectations of the first.

It was a very well done remake with an excellent cast, especially Glover in the lead.

I never claimed it wasn't a well done sequel, it wasn't a remake, yet Glover in the lead didn't quite cut the grade to make it better, or a DRAWCARD.

Norman! What did you put in my tea?

Re: Failure due to casting of Glover

If it doesn't bother you, why are you inferring that I shouldn't be bothered, because you like it the way it is?
Flawed logic. And I didn't infer you shouldn't be bothered. I merely wondered aloud why you seemed to be fixated on profit margin. Makes no sense.
I feel it could have been better.
Hence the constant whining about Glover. You're made that clear.

Too bad you weren't in charge of casting.
This is a discussion board and I have thrown out a bone as to why the film "financially" didn't live up to the expectations of the first.
Yes, it's known as mere worthless speculation. That's all it is, but you're never going to admit that.
Glover in the lead didn't quite cut the grade to make it better
He did a great job. I can't imagine another actor in the lead making it better, but we will never know, will we?

Speculation and opinion of the level you're pursuing is not a flattering thing to see.

Someday you could come to see just how unflattering.



+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
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