Batman Returns : Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

sure loved it

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

It's funny, of both Batman series, I only love 1 out of each. "Batman Returns" and "Batman Begins".

Batman 89 to me is a rather poorly paced affair with too big of a scope for Burton to handle properly. I mean, the film is very, very dated. Yea yea, I know pretty much ANY film will become dated in various ways over timebut Batman 89 just doesn't hold up what so ever to me. The opening scene of Batman attacking the two muggersit looks more like a a stage play than an actual motion picture. The film overall is much too stagey looking. Burton did not yet have the talent to properly mask or direct that set.

The narrative is lumbering and dull, Knox and Vale are worthless, and overall the movie just never comes alive except for small moments here and there.

Batman Returns on the other-hand, feels like much more of a passionate film than the first. Yea, you know in your film loving brain that Gotham is still a set, but Burton directed it MUCH better this time around. The film is still rather deliberately paced, but the atmosphere and the characters have a lot more nuance and intrigue to them. The film is ridiculous when you stop to think about it, but Burton sells us this world so well that a penguin army with rockets on their backs doesn't seem out of place. Many fans will rip this film a new one for being a Tim Burton movie over a Batman movie
I think that's the films biggest strength. This is without a doubt a Burton movie. Burton's take on Batman, and I love it. Does he nail everything little thing? Of course notbut I think he really nails the psychological aspects of the character, and that's why I love it. Nolan changes just as much as Burton does, but yet he seems to get a free pass.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I love both actually; probably prefer the 89 film more because of the Joker, but Returns has that beautiful Gothic imagery and classic Burton charm thats hard to beat ( he really upped his game in Returns: his style is everywhere).







"Its time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all outta gum."- Duke Nukem

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Returns is definitely a beautiful film.

RIP Roger Rees. Movies in theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Vacation 8/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I like the first one better.
Returns has greater visuals than Batman 89. And its a good fun film. But I have complaints though.
It always felt to me like they almost forgot about Batman/Bruce Wayne in this film. He appears early in the movie as Batman for like 2 minutes. The next time we see him 20 minutes have passed and his scene is again really short. He almost feels like a secondary character. The film has more focus on Pinguin, Catwoman and even Shreck. That and there's too few action scenes.

Beyond that I like it alot. I always wished there was a third Burton movie with Keaton as Batman, going up against Riddler or Two Face. Too bad.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I think he's in it plenty. Never thought otherwise.

RIP Roger Rees. Movies in theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Vacation 8/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

There's a reason for this, and I think it's valid. Burton wanted Batman to remain more iconic, and to have him standing about in longer scenes picking his nose would have mitigated against that.

He wanted the audience to experience more anticipation for seeing Batman, and have him remain more mysterious.

I don't know I understand that and sort of appreciate it.



'Then' and 'than' are different words - stop confusing them.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Tim Burton handled Batman better than any director yet, I say.

Movies in theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Psycho 10/10. The Intern 7/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

That's an OK approach but it shouldn't lead to the villains dominating the film (a result I think did work in BR but not very much in B89 and three films in a row like that would have been too much).

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Eh. I enjoyed them.



Theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Psycho 10/10. Halloween 10/10. Home Alone 10/10

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Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I like the first one too, but Returns is the bees knees.

RIP Roger Rees. Movies in theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Vacation 8/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I've never felt Batman was in these movies too little. I think some people may be confusing quality with quantity. Keaton's Batman is a very subtle and quiet vigilante. A stealthy creature of the night who doesn't have to do a lot or say a lot. He sees his opportunity to strike and he takes action. He is Vengeance. He is the Night. He is Batman.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Noice, The.

RIP Roger Rees. Movies in theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Vacation 8/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Yeah, I like it more than Batman, too - and watching the extras for both, so did Burton. I think with less hype and studio pressure, he was freer to just make a movie he liked, and that represented his style more.




'Then' and 'than' are different words - stop confusing them.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

It's a better movie, I totally think.

Movies in theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Psycho 10/10. The Intern 7/10

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Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Nicholson was great, indeed.

Theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Psycho 10/10. Halloween 10/10. Home Alone 10/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Yes. It feels much more like a genuine Tim Burton movie. His signature style is everywhere, including the story development with very sympathetic portrayals of Penguin and Catwoman.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

It's my favorite Burton movie as well.

Theater: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 10/10. Psycho 10/10. Halloween 10/10. Home Alone 10/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I preferred the first one because it was more focused and the Jack Nicholson's Joker is better than all the villains here.

The one aspect this does improve on over the original is that Keaton's performance is even better than in the first. Quite an achievement.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

His and Pfeiffer's scenes are wonderful.

RIP Wayne 'Trapper John' Rogers. MASH wasn't the same w/o you. Creed 9/10. Star Wars TFA 9/10

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I aslighlty prefer this one over the first one too. I find it more atmospheric and deeper. And Michelle Pfeiffer is great.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Agreed. Is that Freddie Mercury Simpsons-afied as your avatar, Jaj?

RIP Wayne 'Trapper John' Rogers. MASH wasn't the same w/o you. RIP Tony Burton. RIP George Kennedy

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Yes. That's the great Mercury being Simpsonized.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

That wasn't on the show was it? I remember Aerosmith, Red Hot Chili peppers, Elton John, NSync, Peter Frampton, Smashing Pumpkins, Phish, and a bunch more bands, but never Queen.

RIP Wayne 'Trapper John' Rogers. MASH wasn't the same w/o you. RIP Tony Burton. RIP George Kennedy

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

It was on Google, that's where I found it. Don't recall it either but I'm thinking it was maybe done as a tribute by the Simpsons crew to remember 20 years since his passing or something

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Probably right.

RIP Wayne 'Trapper John' Rogers. MASH wasn't the same w/o you. RIP Tony Burton. RIP George Kennedy

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. Selena was a lot more interesting than Vicki. I also loved the wintery scenery of Gotham as well as the fantastic soundtrack.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Far from the only one, my friend.

RIP Wayne 'Trapper John' Rogers. MASH wasn't the same w/o you. RIP Tony Burton. RIP George Kennedy

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I also like this movie better than the previous one and like the winter theme and the awesome soundtrack. The Christmas theme works great too. In addition I also like the much darker and adult tone, the gothic things, German Expressionism and all the weirdness.

The penguins were cute too. And the mind control helmets on their heads and the candy cane striped rockets on their backs made them even better. I don't see how that could go wrong.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Two Thumbs way up!

RIP Wayne 'Trapper John' Rogers. MASH wasn't the same w/o you. RIP Tony Burton. RIP George Kennedy

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Absolutely. This is my favorite Superhero film.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Mine too. If you don't count the original Ninja Turtles.

RIP Wayne 'Trapper John' Rogers. MASH wasn't the same w/o you. RIP Tony Burton. RIP George Kennedy

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Yup ironically I assent that keen on Batman 89 but I love this

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

The villains in this movie were much better, I liked Catwoman and the Penguin more than the Joker anyway. Danny Devito played the Penguin really well and also Michelle Pfieffer as the Catwoman.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

The Catwoman in this is sort of an anti-hero. She even rescues a woman who is being attacked by another guy.

She also is disappointed when the ice princess dies. She did not want her harmed. She was only after Shreckand specifically because he had abused and then killed her.

I would have LOVED to see a sequel where she teams up with batman and does live in Bruce's castle. She would have been much more valued.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

But even to kidnap and scare the Ice Princess, Catwoman must have thought she somehow 'deserved' it. Of course she didn't want her dead, but kidnapping and scaring her was already quite extreme.

And I can't see her living in Bruce's castle. It would be anathema to everything she stood against (i.e. the patriarchy and unearned privilege).

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I'm glad she's dead.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Come now cjh8504. I thought we were friends these days.

Plus, why would you want a non-villainous character to die?

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

We're okay. But, I'm tired of hearing about that inconsequential character, and you know that, but you mention her like she was one of the main stars. So, you've turned me against her in effect.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

I'm sorry. But she is so hot, and I like discussing her.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

She's okay, and I know you do, but that's why I bad mouth her.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

If the beautiful Cristi Conaway had done more acting parts and hadn't retired early I might not discuss this character so often. But sadly she did, and since she didn't want to play bimbos after Batman Returns few of her subsequent parts are as sexy as this one.

I wish she went back into acting. She should have a role in "Gotham" or something.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

No reason to bring her up every 5 minutes. She's not integral to the movie. She's in like 2 scenes.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?


No reason to bring her up every 5 minutes. She's not integral to the movie. She's in like 2 scenes.
The frame-up is integral to the movie. And she's as important a representative of Gotham as any of the other supporting characters in the film like the Mayor and Chip Shreck.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Don't let CJ get to you. He's hypocrite. He bashes you for bringing up the IP, someone who he feels isn't an important character, yet on the Halloween II board he talks about nurse karen. He talks about how hot she is and how great het body is,and the reality is she could have easily been written out of the movie. She was merely there for a sex scene and to provide a murder scene.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Thanks for the heads-up.

cjh8504 and I have made our peace now, but I do agree that if he were to mock me for discussing the Ice Princess he'd be a hypocrite in view of his interest in Nurse Karen who is arguably even less important to her respective movie.

At least as well as providing a plot function, the Ice Princess is a satirical comic-relief character. Burton could easily have played her as a straight but unmemorable character, but clearly he chose to play her partly for laughs and as an indictment on 1980/90s society.

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?

Don't listen to Leo. He's a stalker for one. Two, claims he hardly likes Halloween II, and yet not only is his avatar a character from said movie, he's the character the aforementioned Nurse Karen had the sex scene with. And thirdly, she was naked. If the IP were naked, I wouldn't mind you bringing her up so much. Completely different situations. They could've pick anyone and Batman would try to save her. The IP is just a plot device, like you said.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Did anyone else like this one more than the 1st one?


Don't listen to Leo. He's a stalker for one.


Your opinion on me is irrelevant to this situation.


Two, claims he hardly likes Halloween II, and yet not only is his avatar a character from said movie, he's the character the aforementioned Nurse Karen had the sex scene with.


This too is irrelevant to this situation.



And thirdly, she was naked. If the IP were naked, I wouldn't mind you bringing her up so much.


You wouldn't mind him bringing her up so much? Who are you to tell people who they can and can't talk about? You seem to have a real problem with overstating your importance around here. This site isn't called cjhimdb.com. You are the only one who has a problem with him talking about her. Nobody else is complaining. How about the next time you see a thread pertaining to her use some common sense and don't click on it. Makes sense to me.



The IP is just a plot device, like you said.


Nurse Karen is a plot device. Her sole purpose of being in Halloween II is to strip naked, and die seconds later. The whole scene could be deleted and the movie wouldn't change at all.
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