Buffy the Vampire Slayer : How much of Angel Season 4 was actually Cordelia?

I know Cordelia appears when shes in the Higher Dimension and when shes Amnesia Cordy but were all of the lines coming out of Charisma Carpenter's mouth in season 4 starting with Apocalypse Nowish actually said by Cordelia?

I'm always confused on Cordy!Jasmine thing

None of it is Cordy after the clips of her in the higher plane. Jasmine is leaking in before the amnesia spell and is 100% in control after Spin the Bottle.

And Jasmine was overtly manipulating Cordy as far back as Birthday and Tomorrow. Cordy's manipulation into becoming part-demon and a Higher Being were never intended as anything but for sinister purposes. It wasn't some epic statement of her growth by the writers. The visions were never meant to be consequence-free. Heck, the original plan was for Whistler-turned-Doyle to be the season 4 Big Bad before Glenn's drug addiction took that off the table and it became Cordy's fate.

Jasmine was actively trying to mess with Angel's mind concerning their feelings for each other. Amnesia!Cordy and evil!Cordy were both hardcore manipulating him with Connor to distract him with his feelings. Cordy was likewise getting manipulated by Skip and Jasmine the season before. Jasmine needed them to be non-platonic to protect herself from the one person who would be able to kill her prior to her birthing herself. None of that was natural and it was for nothing but a writer's trick in the eventuality of Angel being faced with having to kill Cordy (the original plan that was rewritten to deal with Charisma's pregnancy). Cordy's death was planned well in advance and season 3 was dedicated to setting it up.

The writers were acknowledging the character had nowhere left to go around the end of season 2. Joss was also already having problems with Charisma long before the pregnancy. Her ever-shorter, ever-uglier seasons 2-3 haircuts had him pissed. Her several-episode absence in season 3, not to mention the fact that there are several other episodes she's barely in (basically, whenever Darla or Wesley are center of attention and immediately turn into Angel's secondary lead, not Cordy), was due to a miscarriage and Joss telling her to get herself together. Cordy was also being pushed out with Fred as her replacement and Joss' personal favorite. David Greenwalt was Charisma's biggest supporter. Tim Minear, however, who was pretty much the one who wrote the majority of the Dangel(us) arc, despised Cangel being forced into the show as part of the plan to kill Cordy. David Boreanaz didn't understand Cangel either.

Makes me think David Greenwalt was the one who wanted Cordelia to join Angel to begin with. While Joss would of been happy to have her have a less major role on Buffy and eventually killed off.

David Greenwalt was in fact the one who wanted Charisma to be on Angel.

I think Joss was the one who guaranteed Charisma Carpenter that she could return to BtVS if AtS would have tanked. Thus I find it unlikely that he would have killed her off on BtVS if she had not moved to AtS.

Her character was killed of eventually because Charisma Carpenter became pregnant and didnt informed the team in time, thus forcing Joss and the writers to rewrite large parts of season four. After that Joss was quite unhappy. And did cruel things to the character.


A gentleman will not insult me, and no man not a gentleman can insult me.

I honestly enjoy reading about all the behind the scenes drama on Angel. From Doyle's actor being a drug addict that was hard to work with thus getting him fired. To Charisma cutting her hair 24/7 with out permission pissing off Joss Whedon for "Felicity reasons". To Her miscarrying and being told to take a vacation and get her *beep* together. To her hiding her second pregnancy and forcing horrible rewrites to accommodate her. To her getting fired for lying about the whole ordeal. It's no wonder season 4 was soo poorly constructed given the behind the scenes issues that plagued the show from the very beginning.

And yet, season 4 is often regarded as one of the best constructed seasons. Few shows are as serialized as Angel's fourth season.

Seize the moment, 'cause tomorrow you might be dead.

I think Cordelia would better of saying in Buffy and just had Wesley form start of Angel.

I think Cordelia would better of saying in Buffy and just had Wesley form start of Angel and bought in Gunn earlier in season.

Wesley gets visions and so what if Doyle kisses Wesley as many straight males kiss there frineds now and again!.

They were gonna have Whistler instead of Doyle originally.

I always was of the opinion that there was much more CC than Jasmine in season 4, she only really surfaced when she had to.