Sex and the City : Season 4, Episode 16 rant

Does this episode really grate anyone else like it did/does me.

I hate seeing this episode pop because i just dislike the characters in it and how they are portrayed when it comes to finances.

So Carrie is told to vacate -through legal notice- Aidens apartment, which is completely understandable. Alot of the angst of the episode is that Carrie can't afford the downpayment on a mortgage on her apartment, and pretty much 'can't' leave it because hers is rent controlled since forever and the rest are over price sh!tholes.

So as she's comiserating with the girls about how she had seen Big, he'd written her a cheque, and can't take it because she'd thus be indebted to him (suggested by the girls, which doesn't speak highly of their opinion of Mr Big, and Carrie doesn't defend him either). So she rips it up as Sam and Miranda start offering her money they don't really have to spare, and she does the whole no i can't accept (because you're my fried, and i'd feel guilty, it's bad to mix friends and finances*, it's not your responsibility, presumably) routine, while noticing Charlotte looking away.

Now cue the big scene later in the episode where Carrie yells at Charlotte that she's a bad friend from not offering her money. Carrie says she never would have taken it, but that Charlotte had broken some sort of 'code of friendship' by actively avoiding Carries gaze at the restaurant. Because Carrie (bad with money) would have offered her the same and had always been supportive for Charlotte. Then when Charlotte starts to bring up good points and past experiences that show why she didn't want to mix friendship and finance (general culture tends to support this) and that Carrie should stand on her own two feet, Carrie then mocks her about suggesting Carrie be independant when Carlotte is still wearing Treys engagement ring (though seperating). Carlotte then points out it's none of her f0cking bussiness what she does with her ring, and the only reason she is volunteering is because she'd deemed over-qualified and un-hireable. This then causes Carries to reconsider and say yes it's your ring your choice she just got worked up.

But f0ck Carrie! You couldn't apologise for running to Charlotte's apartment to tell her she was a bad friend for not running through some 'it's the offer that counts' rigamarole of offering to giver her money! When she somewhat acknowledges indirectly that she's spent $40k on shoes, and then leaves Charlotte's apartment wearing expensive fancy shoe's she wont walk any distance in because her fancy expensive shoes pinch her feet! But that's ok, irrational Carrie loves those shoes. Haha classic Carrie /s. Charlotte should have told her that's f0cking ridiculous!

Then that's it. there's no real acknowledgement that Carrie was wrong, that we're supposed to believe that The Sisterhood Bond indicates Charlotte should have gone through with the offering money production.

This episode is then ended (IIRC), with Charlotte offering Carrie her engagement ring so she can pawn it (which i don't see Charlotte doing, what with the sentimental value) and pay for the downpayment for her apartment. We are made to believe that this not only a way for Charlotte to finally get over Trey, but also as a reconciliation/apology to Carrie (I get it may not have been stated as such, but it sure as f0ck felt that way!). F0ck this! You're telling me we're to believe that Charlotte would give away an expensive ring with sentimental value away so her bad with money friend could buy her apartment (not i'm desperate to have a place to live, but to MORTGAGE) and this is to be seen as a charming bonding moment between the two of them. But the fact that Charlotte now has a job makes this ok! Not like emergencies happen or people get fired and need a nest egg of their own at all! /s Oh but is Carrie a bad friend for accepting? Does she tell Charlotte she might need it some day, that she should hold on the memories of the good times of her soon to be ex husband, that she might want to give it to her children some day). No! Carrie accepts because Charlotte's WANTS her to have it (not like she wasn't just yelled at and guilt tripped for no simply making the offer by this very same person /s) and it ok for her to ACCEPT even though she made a point earlier to imply that as a good friend she wouldn't take money even when offered (i guess it's ok because Charlotte wasn't out of pocket, Trey was?)

F0ck i hate this entire exchange

Tl;Dr Carrie was a b!tch for being offended and hurt Charlotte didn't offer her, miss $40k on shoes that pinch my feet Carrie, money to mortgage and thus stay in her apartment when Sam and Miranda, and even Big did.

I usually liked how they showed Carrie's 'neurosis', but i agree this is one episode where she's not just cutely neurotic but waaay out of line. Her behaviour is deplorable. I wonder if she paid Charlotte back in full when she got her big 'cheque'? Oh wait, she took Berger to Prada!

Lol!

You are letting your dislike for her cloud your view on the meaning of the episode. First thing, Carrie wasn't expecting any of them to give her the money. She never asked for anything from them. Her issue with Charlotte was not because she didn't offer her money, it was the fact that Charlottte didn't offer her any support as a friend. Charlotte sat there and turned away from Carrie loudly slurpping her drink. It made Charlotte look like she was unconcerned about Carries plight. All she had to do was give her emotional support if she didn't want to offer any thg monetary. Also, Carrie turned both Sam and Miranda down as soon as they made the offer, so what was Charlotte afraid of?She didn't come across as supportive at all, and this is supposed to be a woman who considered them all to be family and soulmates. I am not sure why you think Sam and Miranda were going to be struggling if they lent her the down payment. It was also made clear that Carrie was very aware of her irresponsible spending but that is of no matter at that point. She also voiced that her anger was somewhat misplaced when she confronted Charlotte. The point was that Carrie was hurt the her friend did not offer any manner of support and it hurt her as we'll as the fact she coul don't find another apartment. Charlotte wanted to get rid f the ring, which was apparent when he went to have it made into something else.Now,, was Carrie wrong fir confronting Charlotte? No, but she could have went about it in a different way, but I give her a pass because of her circumstances. On her own volition, Charlotte decided to give her the ring as a sign of trust and t let go of the past. I do not particularly care for Carrie either, but it does not cloud my abilities to see what the true message was.

I get what you are saying but it was annoying that, despite all the support and offers of loans from everyone else, Carrie had to zone in on Char and make her feel awful because of her lack of support. So what if Char looked away as Carrie lamented her lack of funds. Does Carrie need the whole group to constantly stroke her ego and go *there, thereeverything will be fine.*? I just wonder why Carrie needed Char to fake a concern when she already had everyone else's support and offers of $$.
The ending, w Char giving her the ring, was so dissatisfying, IMO.

You are still missing the point,she did not act like she cared, what kind of friend does that? It was an easily avoidable situation on Charlotte part and it painted her bad more than Carrie. Carrie did not zone in on Charlotte, she made herself stick out by her blatant removal from the discussion and slurping her drink loudly. Heck, She could have sat there looking concerned and it would not have been an issue. Carrie is always supportive in serious matters when Charlotte miscarried. Think about what are saying, what type of friend has to fake concern, that says more about you than the person with the issue. How would oh feel if one of your friends turned away from you in a crisis.

You raise a good point! And i've noticed you use a lot of examples to back them up (which i also do, so i've enjoyed going back and forth with you)

Unfortunately they left this episode too ambiguous imo regarding Carrie having an issue with lack of emotional support from Char or if it really was about $$. We don't get a chance to see anyone give her emotional support without offering her money so we don't get an objective idea of what's in Carrie's head. Charlotte can be seen as the bad guy if that's how one chooses to see the episode.

When Carrie approaches Big, it seems so purposely naive. Along the lines of "I need money but don't have it, and you know money so tell me how to make it". A one hour lunch date talking about making money quick aint gonna help and she knows it, it seems so deliberate and fake imo. Plus she also attacks Charlotte over the situation, whereas Charlotte calmly explains her reasons why she doesn't want to get involved with friends finances. Charlotte explained her reasons as to why she was uncomfortable discussing it, but Carrie wouldn't drop it and then proceeded to attack her. That's why i'm on Charlotte's team with this one. However i'm on a rewatch binge and will pay closer attention to just how dismissive Char is of Carrie in that episode!

Does Carrie rip up Big's cheque before Miranda and Sam offer her the money or after? I'm curious now!!

Thanks for the kudos, how have you been? The reason I do not believe she did not expect any monetary support is evidenced by her Charlotte action which grabbed Carries attention. Carrie only noticed Charlotte as her attempts to remove herself from the conversation actually drew Carrie in. Earlier in in the conversation Charlotte didn't want to discuss it at all despite Carrie never even alluding to wanting anything. Miranda also found her behavior as strange and said "why not talk about it, we talk about everything else" and when Carrie told them about the check Charlotte,astonishing,said "he just gave you all that money?".Had she simply sat there and at least kept her attention on Carrie without loudly slurping her drink turned away ,Carrie would not have picked up on anything. Another piece of evidence that she was not expecting any monetary support is her shock that they even had that much to loan, but she immediately declines. Why would she decline if her wanted their money?

When Carrie confronted Charlotte, she explicitly said to her, "you sat there and said nothing, you turned away and said nothing". On her way over to Charlotte, Carrie voiced her knowledge that she was displacing her anger, but needed to vent. Charlotte was offensive when she said that Big "just gave you all that money". This is a women who blackmailed Bunny into increasing her prenuptial agreement to 1 million dollars and felt she was entitled to a multi-million dollar Park Avenue apartment after a very short courting. Her engagement and marriage that was shorter than Carrie and Bigs relationship put together.

The only person she sought money from was,as you say, Big. She Knew very well that he would give it to her. If anyone should give her money, it was him. Considering all the crap he put her through, it was compensation. They should not have talked her out of accepting the money. He more than likely would not have expected her to pay it back nor would he have held it over her. I do believe she ripped up the check at the restaurant.

After her confrontation with Charlotte, the issue was resolved. Charlotte knew she wpas wrong because when Carrie told her what her issue was, she admitted that she was afraid that the matter would come up. It was especially noticeable as Charlotte is usually the more empathetic and openly compassionate of the four. Carrie was obviously hurt by Charlotte's seemingly indifferent behavior at the restaurant. She was in a crisis that needed immediate attention and she was overwhelmed which is why she wrongly blew up with Charlotte. However, the issue needed to be addressed because it would have stuck in her head and would have festered over time as Carrie was unaware of why Charlotte behaved the way she did. Had Charlotte told her of the very valid and respectable reason she was not comfortable,all the drama would be avoided.and it would be a very boring episode. This was very hard for me to write as I do not even like Carrie.

What got on my nerves was Charlotte's judgmental attitude, like "Oh, you shouldn't need to depend on anyone else, you should stop being so irresponsible, look at me, I own my own place!" Uh, that was HANDED TO YOU, FREE OF CHARGE. Few things are annoying as people who inherit wealth scolding others for not doing it on their own, "like me." Yes, well done, Charlotte. You took a multi-million-dollar apartment and huge diamond ring all on your own. What an impressive accomplishment!

Frankly, when her brief joke of a marriage broke up, if she had any of the "stand on your own two feet" independence she bragged about, she would have left with dignity and what she came in with, instead of being grabby and needy. I could not imagine fighting someone for their apartment that I didn't contribute a penny to buying, just because our relationship didn't work out and then looking down on my friend because she couldn't afford to buy what I enjoyed for free.

Yeah..I didn't like how she just expected Charlotte to offer the money to her, but I also didn't like Charlotte's know-it-all response. I can't stand women who marry rich guys and have it made and then rub it in their friends' faces. I think Carrie should have taken the money from Mr. Big and just paid him back, if she didn't want to be indebted to him. He was a millionaire and much better off than all of her friends, and she'd been through a lot with him over the years.

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I wonder if she paid Charlotte back in full when she got her big 'cheque'? Oh wait, she took Berger to Prada!

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Yeah, I noticed how Carrie being indebted to Charlotte was never approached or brought up again. If you either owe or expect the amount of a down payment paid back to you, that's not the kind of thing that is easily forgotten or dismissed.

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Yeah..I didn't like how she just expected Charlotte to offer the money to her

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Did she?, Carrie was more hurt that Charlotte came off as not caring.Also, when she was astonished that Big gave Carrie the monry, she was somewhat hypocritical. Her engagement and marriage combined was shorter than Carrie and Bigs relationship the first round. She expected a million dollar prenuptial after a few months of dating and a short engagement AND a multi-million dollar apartment that belonged to the Mcdugal family after less than two years of marriage AND having an apartment all her own that she returned to when she separated from Trey.

This is interesting. I also dislike this episode. Miranda and Samantha have enough money to each be able to help Carrie out part of the way. I hated how she manipulates charlotte into helping her. It's completely unrealistic to have friends willing to lend you this kind of money. Didn't any of these women have families? I did love how the bank wouldn't give her a loan though

Carrie did no such things, she didn't ask or manipulate or expect any of the girls to give her any money monetary support,it simply was not wasn't there. Also, true friends help you in a crisis. Charlotte giving Carrie the means to secure the payment was under her own volition and still, Carrie turned her down but Charlotte insisted.

Again, very good points. I'm almost convinced lol (and they wrapped it up in a sweet little bow by having Char 'propose' to Carrie)! However what makes this episode tricky is that it's the closest to realistic regarding Carrie's finances and how grossly she lives beyond her means. Carrie did very little to try and look after herself- She saw if she could get a loan (nope), and looked at a couple of other apartments and went nope i give up i'm going to see Big for money.

In reality Carrie should have
1. Kept Aidan's ring. It's not the $30k eye-popper that is Charlotte's ring, but hey Aidan knew she would be in a massive jam and could have at least given her extra time before booting her onto the street (so i see no moral dilemma in keeping the ring lol). He gave her 30 days knowing Carrie had nothing. Carrie should have used a tiny bit of foresight that that would happen and hung onto the ring as some financial security. It also shows her hypocrisy towards Charlotte keeping her ring imo. She's so holier than thou about not keeping her own one and ridicules Charlotte for wearing hers, yet in the end accepts Char's ring for her deposit.

2. Accepted that she had made her own bed by blowing $40k on shoes, who knows how much more on designer clothing, never saved any money at all and just taken one of the ugly apartments even if just temporarily to then use as a stepping stone. Give it 5 years, and she would have savings, plus the 5-10k from Aiden's ring (if she had kept it) - boom she would have the means to secure an apartment similar to what she had and all on her own steam. But no, not our Carrie. Not when she has a millionaire ex and 3 wealthy friends.

or 3. Worst case scenario, just take Big's money. He was sleazy and manipulative sometimes but i don't think he lacked that much integrity that he'd exploit Carrie by it. But if she took his money, i guess the audience would lose respect for her. But on the flip side, i lost respect for her in the way she went about it. The whole faux 'i want to learn about money'. What BS! At least just come out with it straight.

I do think Charlotte eventually paid the deposit because she was emotionally bullied into it. She had a life long constitution of not mixing money with friends, she also didn't have a paying job herself. Then practically overnight she just changes her mind? I don't buy it. If i was Charlotte, i would have bought the apartment myself and continued renting it to Carrie with the option of her buying it off her when she was more financially secure.

I get the emotional undercurrent that drove the episode, Charlotte was dismissive and appeared ignorant to Carrie's plight. But she was clearly uncomfortable, not rolling her eyes or outright slamming Carrie's scattered finances. Once Carrie found out why she behaved the way she did, she should have just said 'I understand now why you acted weird like you didn't care, can you please just be honest with me in the future'. But why can't she accept the money from the others but she can from Charlotte?

*I just watched the fight on youtube. Carrie's internal dialogue is "I knew just who to irrationally take it out on". Then the very first words out of her mouth are "Why didn't you offer me the money", then "What kills me is that you don't even have to work, you're volunteering".

Carrie had a history of getting a free ride financially. She let Aidan buy the apartment quite happily without having a real discussion about how it would work, she went to Big for money, she accepted Charlotte's money, when Big bought the penthouse she was gloating that it was hers and she only brought up marriage so she could get dibs on it if they didn't work out (she kept adding more and more to the wedding too and ditched the suit for the free Westwood dress), she asked Alek what he could offer her if he couldn't offer her a child and happily accepted the alternative of living all expenses paid in Paris (she wasn't even working then so was bringing in only royalties from her books). There's some minor ones too - She let Amalita buy her shoes when her credit card got cut, she instantly asked to return the cashmere gift for the cash instead, she didn't bother with a gift for Laney and just put her name on Charlotte's mega gift, Samantha and Miranda have both happily given her their professional services and sure they're all good friends but their services would have been very expensive for anyone else (anyone know how much just a phone call from a lawyer costs? ouch) - and i don't recall her offering to pay anything ever (but i do remember her kicking Samantha out of the hotel so she could have sex with Big and also whinging about Miranda snoring in LA), she only agreed to do the runway show because she could keep the clothes. Carrie isn't a bad friend but she is definitely a freeloader with a track record. This hurts me to write as i DO like Carrie haha.

You seem to be the strongest voice here that Carrie was more in the right and Charlotte more in the wrong. You must be a very generous friend lol. But seriously, i think it was probably more an oversight in how this particular episode was written? I think they should have shown someone just offer Carrie emotional support without financial help, not been as heavy handed with Carrie's aggression towards Charlotte, show Carrie REALLY busting her ass to get herself out of her predicament before looking for handouts, maybe show her paying Charlotte back in full when she gets her first check 'unlikable Carrie' swamps the emotional message of the episode of what a truly wonderful friend Char is and her friendship with Carrie is. You have a good point with Charlotte not being one to point the finger when it comes to a free ride though, she literally blackmailed Bunny for a mil by threatening to hurt Trey right before the wedding! ugh! And when Miranda chose Carrie to be Godmother, i got the feeling that it wasn't just jealousy or envy but that she was judgemental of Carrie and her lifestyle in general and that she didn't deserve the honour.

When I first viewed this episode I was in the opinion of everyone else thinking how dare she approach Charlotte like that. However, I had not seen the whole episode, just everything that occured after the resturant scene. When I watched the whole episode i gained a better understanding in Carries behavior later on. My only gripe with the shows portrayal is that they have her question Charlotte about the money and then her lack of support in any manner. Carrie was very aware that her spending habits were irresponsible, however, her situation required immediate solutions.Also, we have insight into Carriies thoughts, and still there is nothing to suggest manipulation or a feeling entitled, It was merely a misunderstanding. But you are indeed right about the show in the last paragraph. not asking Carries motives clear

From your last paragraph about Charlotte reaction to Carrie being chosen as godmother. I don't think she was upset about it being Carrie, but that she always wanted children and because of her issues felt Mirandaa should have chosen her. She wasn't necessarily judging Carrie so much as she saw herself as mother materialwhich it what you said I guess.

lol lrd, you seem to be encountering a lot of lack of objectivity when it comes to us 'Team Charlotte' ppl! Yet you continue to state very logical points, and yep i'm guilty of dragging in non episode related character elements so i thought i'd put on my 'Team Carrie' shirt for a bit

Charlotte wasn't just dead silent when Carrie was talking about her problem, she WAS entirely dismissive of the entire conversation and had a 'get me the hell out of here' expression. Char being the big emotional softie of the group I can see why Carrie was shocked and hurt and it got under her skin. They weren't just talking about a problem with a boyfriend (though Carrie WAS having to deal with Aidan leaving her again at the same time), they were discussing Carrie being kicked out of her home she'd had for years with no solution in sight. No boyfriend, no money, no home. In reality that would be a devastating time for anyone, and Carrie was constantly beating herself up over how she let herself get into that mess. This IS when your friends should be there for you. You used the word crisis, and i agree this was definitely a *real* crisis, not just funky spunk or Trey can't get it up etc. Charlotte let something that happened between her dad and his friend get in the way of being there at all for Carrie in one of her darkest hours and used it as a comparison too.

And true, it wasn't really about money Carrie prefaced that she was being irrational and unfortunately brought up the money first as Miranda and Sam instantly offered it (imo). Later, Carrie dedicated her first book to Charlotte too iirc, i think this shows that Carrie most likely did pay Charlotte back straight away and also expressed her appreciation of what a wonderful friend she had in her and her acknowledgement of her sweet, loving and generous nature.

What grabbed me the most was Carrie's right in ya face, jabbing her finger at you condescension that she usually only reserves for boyfriends. It's hard to be objective with THAT Carrie

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This IS when your friends should be there for you

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Exactly. Carrie was going through a crisis (as you say) and she needed her friends and Charlotte wasn't being there for her. Carrie was becoming homeless and Charlotte was sitting there turning away slurping her drink. I totally understand why Carrie was upset with her.


"I will not be strong armed by threats against my laundry"