Planet of the Apes : The 'shock' that the planet is Earth

A point to consider..

I watched the original movie with Charleton Heston and then the 2001 version over the weekend - one on TV the other on a borrowed DVD. Leaving aside the very confusing ending to the second film - how can he go back in time and discover an Abraham Lincoln-like statue honouring an ape who he had just put into a trap 2000 years in the future? - the thing that amused me in both films was the look of surprise on the faces of both Heston (especially) and Wahlberg when they discover that this strange planet that they had landed on was Earth.

When you consider the incredibly wide range of physical conditions that exist on Earth, let alone the Solar System, the range that must exist in the Universe is beyond my imagination. So if I, as an astronaut well aware of the wide diversity of conditions that exist, landed on a planet with EXACTLY THE SAME atmosphere, gravity, distance to the nearest star (as shown by the size of the 'Sun' in the sky), ambient temperature and vegetation as the Earth I would do a rough estimation of the chances of there being TWO planets in the Universe with exactly the same conditions. I would conclude from my calculations that this chance was so low that the most logical explanation was that I had arrived back on Earth - albeit an Earth that I did not recognise, for some reason.

However, I think that the main clinching argument that would lead me to realise that I was back on Earth instead of on an alternative planet would be the presence of individuals (albeit apes) speaking English with American accents. The likelihood of English evolving on a distance planet is somewhat low!!!

So, taking these points into account - it would have been much more of a shock if the planet had NOT turned out to be Earth!

Karen


Happiness isn't happiness without a violin-playing goat.

But Yeah But Nah, forget it, you're right. BTW, not all the apes in this film spoke with American English tongues, Ari and her father had English accents (both actors are English), which makes it more odd. Mind you, English is considered the universal tongue, so maybe that is literally meant in this film. ;)

The use of accented English in the movie:

I did not say that ALL of the apes had American accents, only that there were some that did. Helena B-C has, of course, the most English of English accents - although that hardly matters when you are 320 light years from Earth!

I respect your point about English being the 'universal' language - I had not realised until this point how literal that was!!!

Karen

Happiness isn't happiness without a violin-playing goat.

---

I did not say that ALL of the apes had American accents, only that there were some that did. Helena B-C has, of course, the most English of English accents - although that hardly matters when you are 320 light years from Earth!

---

Yes, fair enough, you didn't and I misread, but I was really just trying to highlight how odder it was that not only are there apes that speak with an American English tongue, there are some who speak with a southern English tongue, too.

One thing that puzzles me is that considering that the apes originally came from the Oberon spaceship, crewed by Americans (I'm presuming, because we didn't hear any other accents, so maybe there's an easy argument against this), then how the hell did southern English accents managed to come about? Oh the fun that can be had with silly discussions. ;)

Mind you, Wahlberg's Leo knows he's on Earth, for that's where he was heading (the planet where he left Ari and company wasn't Earth and he knew that). His expression is because he went back to Earth expecting to find humans, but found it run by apes, and apes who had built a statue to honour Thade. Heston's Taylor's expression is because he realises he's been on Earth from the beginning and that humanity had blown it all up. So Leo's shock wasn't that he was on Earth, but that it wasn't how he imagined it would be.

OK maybe I was wrong when I thought that Wahlberg thought that he was not on Earth.

Karen

Happiness isn't happiness without a violin-playing goat.

Give it up. The ending is nonsensical. Let's move on.

In the 1968-Taylor was on Future Earth.
In the 2001, Re-imagining Leo was on a distant planet called Ashlar.

It's true, and most viewers were sure about it until the very end. The confusion comes from the fact that when Whalberg goes back to his time, he lands on the Earth ruled by apes. So some people would think it must be same planet that he just arrived from, and since the current planet is Earth, the planet he arrived from is the Earth too. They're wrong, but the final twist makes it more understandable.

I assume the final twist just doesn't make sense. Simple as that. Wahlberg surely does two time travels in the movie, and at least once he also travels to an alternate universe, he's just not aware of that. That explains why the Earth is ruled by apes in his time. But it still doesn't explain why General Thade is a historical figure on the Earth in a much earlier time. It would have made more sense if they would've used a different name (and title). However, time travel *and* universe travel is still too much to imagine.

Heh. I'd like them to adapt the Pierre Boulle book properly, and have the apes speaking their own language (if people can make up a language for Klingons, then they can do so for the apes on Soror), with the protagonist, Ulysse, speaking French (and Zira once she learns how to speak French, which she does alongside Ulysse learning their own language), and us English speakers having to put up with subtitles. That'd teach us. ;) Still, I doubt Hollywood would consider that a good money spinning idea.

Good idea.
Or, what if at first the astronaut cannot understand their language at first, but as he is listening he picks up the lingo and to watching audience the words translate bit by bit to English (a bit like the 13th Warrior with Antonio Banderas).

Since when does Earth have two big nearby moons in the sky? In the remake, it's obvious Wahlberg lands on another planet, not Earth.

-
http://mulhollandcinelog.wordpress.com/

I'm a little too shocked as I read this subject developed by the original writer and all of the answers or explanations written by more of the viewersall of which missed a VERY IMPORTANT part of this movie.

Due to the crew on the spaceship looking for its scientist and chimp, THE ORIGINAL OUTERSPACE SHIP CRASHED UPON THE PLANET AT AN EARLIER TIME, depending on what part of the time changing area they hit in space on their way to look for Capt. Leo Davidson. The planet was not earth, but every single human and ape/monkey/chimp were descendants of the originals from the ship that held all of their "ancestors". ALL ORIGINALS FROM EARTH!!!

This means that the english language was there from the very beginning, even the accentsnot hard to get. As a matter of fact, there were probably people that worked on the ship who could also speak other languages from our planet, as well as the possability that there were computer videos that may have been able to hold several others, correct?

I hope everyone understands this, and I don't mean to sound insulting, please forgive me if I dojust wanted to clear this subject up.

---

Due to the crew on the spaceship looking for its scientist and chimp, THE ORIGINAL OUTERSPACE SHIP CRASHED UPON THE PLANET AT AN EARLIER TIME, depending on what part of the time changing area they hit. The planet was not earth, but every single human and ape/monkey/chimp were descendants of the originals from the ship that held all of their "ancestors". ALL ORIGINALS FROM EARTH!!!

---

I said:

---

One thing that puzzles me is that considering that the apes originally came from the Oberon spaceship, crewed by Americans (I'm presuming, because we didn't hear any other accents, so maybe there's an easy argument against this), then how the hell did southern English accents managed to come about? Oh the fun that can be had with silly discussions. ;)

---

It's already been said that the apes and the humans on the planet have come from the Oberon that crashed on the planet in previous times, so nothing missed there. ;)

My only issue was the different accents that survived, not the language used (your point is right). In an American crewed ship, somehow British English accents have not only sprung up, but have survived (Ari and her father had British English accents). Even if there were some Brits on that ship a few thousand years prior to Leo crash landing on the planet, I'd have expected the accents to have either merged to the dominant one (which seems to have happened bar the exceptions) or to have diversified dramatically beyond both American and British English accents. Still, it's a small issue and one that I can let go. I mean, there are horses on the planet, so other things have sprung up that are a bit more puzzling (even if novels based on the film explain it to some degree).

Good point, sorry I mis-understood this part of your message. I do believe, though, that this was also used to prove that not every current thing could have been brought by Oberon. This simply means that we explain the entire movie we saw based on the footage from the small rooms that our personal characters were being shown from.

The fact is that a space craft like this should have been large with plenty of things that would take much too long to show usfor example gardens to keep food available, as well as a farm that would raise things such as cows and even horses (which is why they would be on the new planet as well).

I need to watch it again to remember if it was an American crewed ship, or if in the future ships that are used are actually run by several countries together. English language may explain that.but maybe USA just invested a larger portion. Who knows? LOL

Ari was played by HBC, right? English actress - English accent.






Reed Rothchild: "Hey, are those lizard?"
Dirk: "No, they're Italian."

---

Ari was played by HBC, right? English actress - English accent.

---

Yes, but she also played in Fight Club with a put-on American accent. She's done other films where she puts on an American accent, so could have done so here. I tend to think, though, that the English accent was deliberately used, arguably for the idea that Ari and her father (David Warner, also English) came from, for lack of a better word, genteel heritage, so a soft English accent was used to note that difference.

"My only issue was the different accents that survived, not the language used (your point is right). In an American crewed ship, somehow British English accents have not only sprung up, but have survived (Ari and her father had British English accents)."

And Thade, played by Tim Roth who is also English.
IMHO it may be a simple homage to the 1968 movie, where the chimpanzees were all played by British actors (like Roddy McDowall) or with British accents, whereas the orang-outangs and the gorillas had an American accent.
Considering that Americans are more "famous" for warmongering (like the gorillas) and theology/religion (like the orang-outangs) than for philosophy and science (Europeans), it kinda makes sense as a metaphor. NRA spokesman Charlton Heston as the dying chimpanzee who damns mankind for its brutality is another wink at this metaphoric aspect of the tale.
Heston's character is the only chimp that speaks with a US accent.

---

IMHO it may be a simple homage to the 1968 movie, where the chimpanzees were all played by British actors (like Roddy McDowall) or with British accents, whereas the orang-outangs and the gorillas had an American accent.
Considering that Americans are more "famous" for warmongering (like the gorillas) and theology/religion (like the orang-outangs) than for philosophy and science (Europeans), it kinda makes sense as a metaphor. NRA spokesman Charlton Heston as the dying chimpanzee who damns mankind for its brutality is another wink at this metaphoric aspect of the tale.
Heston's character is the only chimp that speaks with a US accent.

---

I just have to nitpick a bit. Kim Hunter, who played Zira, was American and so was her accent. Maurice Evans (the actor who played Dr Zaius) was English (born in Dorset in south-west England). Sure, he became a US citizen and his Zaius didn't have an English accent, but just thought I'd throw in that curve ball. As for Heston's character being the only chimpanzee who speaks with an American accent in Burton's film, might I also remind you of Nova (the chimpanzee who's married to the orangutan during the dinner scene), who's played by Lisa Marie, an American, and spoke with an American accent. Still, she's hardly representative of science and reason, which strengthens your point. ;) Leeta, Ari's friend at the beginning, spoke with an American accent. However, she's identified as a bonobo, although that's not stated in the film (stated later in the comics that spawned from the film), and you'd of thought of her as a chimpanzee during it.

I suppose the softer spoken ones with "refined" accents compared to the "harsher" sounding ones would be more of a distinction than whether they had English or American accents. The implication possibly being that the less harsh the accent the more educated they'd seem.

I think the possibility of other earth-like planets is not so remote, it's a gigantic universe. There was a time when people thought no other planets would exist and now planets are being found all the time. There is an estimated 50 billion planets in our own galaxy. 10% of sunlike stars have planets. So if I crash landed on a planet after traveling through a space warp, I would not necessarily assume it was earth, even if the chances of actually landing on a planet like earth, or earth itself, would be pretty small.


Reason is a pursuit, not a conclusion.

Karen,

I like your thinking. You have said it all for me.
So much for 'intelligent' science fiction eh?

Terry

Karen,

You're not wrong, you're just an a

Not, I mean you are pretty much correct. The average astronaut has only been in space right? Not landed on other planets? From these films' perspectives yes. So they would be well aware of the similarities of the planet they were on and that of their home world.

However. If you have watched The Cosmos or have a background in physics or astronomy, the processes that occur in our solar system and also the matter and elements that reside throughout them and their planets are roughly the same. We are all from the same stardust. The processes of planetary and solar creation our galaxy and others are bound by the same laws, although can be drastically different for example binary star systems. So time is the main factor, but manly ecosystems on earth could probably be similar to alien worlds that we have not yet discovered. The evolution of our terrestrial planet with its magma, ice, water, and fertile atmosphere might not be as uncommon as we would like to think. We are looking for evidence as we speak on Mars as to it being an older earth, one that would of resembled us a billion+ years ago, as there is evidence of erosion and bodies of water.

In other words, I could understand the confusion by the characters, since time must effect Earth the same way if effects other planets.

So assuming the planet you were on wasn't Earth, since it looked completely different from the Earth you knew in your lifetime and you were not aware of the severe time-dilation, is plausible.

The ending really demands some explanation, and they could make it much less confusing very easily by replacing Abe's head with that of an ape without stating that this particular ape is Thade.

"I can change almost anything but I can't change human nature." -Dr. Manhattan

Unless there was hope in a sequel that would explain how that came about, that was ditched because of poor ratings.

You just saved the film (at least for me) in two sentences. It would have been far more believable that some other ape could have accomplished the task, but NOT Thade.

"Life is uncertain, eat dessert first!" -HOMER J.SIMPSON

The Wahlberg ending was simply a shocked reaction to what he was seeing, a planet ruled by intelligent apes. When you think about it, the Wahlberg ending is essentially the same roughly before the midway point of the Heston film where they first discover that apes rule the planet. Wahlerg isn't even sure where he is and hasn't had enough time to react. Heston had been on his planet for a relatively long enough time where he could have figured out earlier it was Earth.

Well markie mark wasn't on earth like they were in the original.

In the original, they were so far from earth that there's no way they would've considered they were there. A rocky planet like earth probably isn't so uncommon, and they even mentioned that the sun (star) might be Bellatrix. The English speaking apes probably just had them thinking somehow apes had evolved over time back on earth and had gotten to this planet the same way the humans had.