Twist : What is it that Dodge's brother make him do?

And why? What's the deal with the scene? What takes place? Lemme know please!

Dodge's brother makes him give him a blow-job in order for him to give the money to Dodge. I'm pretty sure his brother is trying ot make a point, but i'm not too sure what it is or if it worksi think it just messes Dodge up even more! oh how I love this movie!!

money for what???

Oh my goodness. Did you even watch the movie? If Dodge didn't get the money from his brother, he would have gotten beat.

No i didn't.hello I ws trying to fiure out if I want to but the whole incest thing is kinda nasty.

then, don't watch the film then, it's settled.

Mathilda, don't you ever do that again or I'll break your head, you got that?

I'll keep that in mind.but i don't remember asking you.

It's totally off camera and the brother had a reason for doing what he did. He loved his brother and it was kinda his way of breaking the connection . . . he knew he coulnt help his brother at this point and the whole reason behind it was to prove to Dodge what he was and how it was wrong. But it doesn't actually show it. In fact . . .this movie doesn't actually show a single sexual act . . . or even the couple of violence scenes toward the end.

So if it is the incest that's keeping you from watching it, don't worry about it and go ahead and watch it. It leaves the viewer to assume what actually happened.

So is this the only possible way he sees of getting him off the streets? I mean yeah it sucks for Dodge but the David ig going to have to live with it too. I'm sure there is plenty of other ways he could have proved some tough love without having his dick sucked.Call the cops on him, send him to rehab or somethingcome on

he had him proform oral sex on him

Logo censored the film. oral sex left out.

Yeah, I caught it on Logo just a little while ago, and all the cutting left me supremely confused. Firstly, the audio faded so low and in and out so often, that I was still unsure who David even was, and then, when the oral sex scene happened, it cut straight to commercial. So I got Dodge saying "Look at my face", then going and beating up Oliver. Those kind of cuts happened all through the movie. Basically, I'm just left confused.

Yeah, I watched it on CBC and if I didnt have closed caption on I would have heard a thing. At one point I thought I might have muted it. Although they didnt really cut anything out on that channel.

i think i may check it out on DVD due to the cut-out scenes.

glenn-rishards26

About that scene:
PLEASE READ

*spoilers*

My favorite thing about this movie was the psychology behind the relationship of Dodge and his brother David, it's all about how childhood sexual abuse blurs the lines between affectionate contact, sexual contact, and viloent contact. Sex becomes a synonym for power/dominance, it loses any sensuality. Dodge is forced to give David oral sex. I thought the reasoning behind that painful scene was obvious. Dodge says "Don't do this." and David says back to him, "I don't do this I don't do this, you do this." And it's clearly a situation of cycle, you get hurt so you hurt someone else. Their father hurt them, so David hurt Dodge, and Dodge went home to Oliver, where all he wanted was a little human affection, instead Oliver turned it sexual, and Dodge hurt him. Affection, sex, violence, power.
David did it as a way of re-living the abuse but the tables are turned, of re-gaining "control" at his brother's expence. He's NOT A PERVERT. You have to see past sex, it wasn't about sex at all, it was about power and victimezation.

You are a moron. If he is not a pervert than what is he?

DID you read the post before yours at all? Even in the movie, you can tell by David's expression and how he puts his hand up to his face that he's not enjoying it. It's to prove a point.

Actually.the brother IS a pervert- maybe not because he chooses to be but because that is how he was raised and has developed into as a man. He was molested by his father, and then the father also began molesting Dodge. His brother never protected Dodge; leaving the viewer to feel as though his brother didn't quite grasp just how wrong the victimization was. He even still lives with his father. The brother is torn. He says to Dodge when Dodge begins the sex act that "see, you can never leave the family", then he starts to wimper. This shows that he is conflicted inside-between what may be wrong to do and what he can not stop himself from doing.

Listen to the dialog between the boys right before they leave the cafe the second time. The older brother has his own demons and isnt dealing with them. He tells the younger one that he chose to stick it out and put up with the abuse and that he made the right decision because it allowed him to go to school and someday he will marry and have a family and all that stuff. He puts down Dodge because he ran, but it was probably something he wish he would have done and since he didnt he feels like he allowed the abuse. He was downing the guy becasue he was ashamed. Hes either got some gay leanings and feels guilty about it, thinking that the abuse and the orientation makes him less of a man or hes gay and ashamed. Either way, he didnt make Dodge give him head to enlighten him in any way.

To me it seemed like he made him do it because he wanted it and had convinced himself that it was teaching him a lesson. So he cried while the kid did it, that doesnt mean he felt bad abaout it. If he felt bad hed have not let him. He is a self hating gay who needed to get off with a guy and in his warped mind thats what Dodge was there for.

We never do know if Dodge identifies as queer or not. We know he shots up to deal with turning trix.

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He even still lives with his father.

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Really? I didn't get this. When does he say so? (I didn't understand all the dialogs)
Then he's really stupid, how can he ask Dodge to come back home and to live with his father again? He's exactly like the Senator, he gives only false offers of help.

God I hate when people call him a pervert and all that, David wasn't enjoying it at all, he was trying to make a point about what Dodge does and how he thinks it turned Dodge into something David hates to see Dodge doing. Everyone should just pay more attention to the expresions and feeling of the movie.

As Our Lady of Disco, the Divine Miss Gloria Gaynor, has always sung to us, "We will survive."

vdgr1 wrote: God I hate when people call him a pervert and all that, David wasn't enjoying it at all, he was trying to make a point about what Dodge does and how he thinks it turned Dodge into something David hates to see Dodge doing. Everyone should just pay more attention to the expresions and feeling of the movie.>>

No one forces sex on anyone to help that person or make a point they believe will help that person. Ever.

YOU'RE KIDDING,RIGHT? So, are you saying that it isn't sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, and moral perversion to coerce your sibling into performing a sex act with you, even over the protestations of the victimized sibling? Buddy, you're missing a few neurons.

We're never going to agree on what ingredients are most important in the recipe of a good movie.

He's showing how bad it is to be a prostitute, how the things he's doing are degrading.

fclermont777 wrote: <>

Bull. Do you honestly believe this? Dodge already knows how bad it is to be a prostitute. His brother knows he knows. What his brother is doing is raping Dodge. He is forcing Dodge to give him a blow job. That's it. What he's doing isn't helping Dodge. That anyone could think he is doing that to help him it makes me so angry. How many victims of rape and other kinds of abuse are told, "It's for your own good! This is to help you!" Bull. Dodge's brother is not trying to help him. He degrades him and violates him on several different levels and to believe otherwise is to be in total and dangerous denial.

That's an amazing way to put it, I kind of thought of it that way, but you really helped clear that up.

Thanks! and nice way of putting it!

I understand that David was trying to prove a point, but still that is a little much, don't you think? I think there's more to than just that, but I'm not sure what it is exactly. Do you think David had raped Dodge before? Dodge had said, "you should have stopped it, you knew what was going on." Why didn't he stop it? Was he doing it too, or was being raped as well?

The only word for this is trans-plendid. It's trans-plendid.

I don't think David was being raped, tooin the coffee shop, he says to Dodge, "I didn't know he was doing those things to you," or something like that. I think the father-son abuse was centered on Dodge, and David was a bystandera bystander who obviously did know what was going on, though, based on Dodge's reaction to that statement.
And no, David hadn't raped Dodge before. If he had, Dodge wouldn't have been so shocked when they got to the alley and he finally understood what David wanted him to do.
Maybe it is a little much for him to demand a blow job from his brother, but, after all, this is a moviethey have to make symbolism stronger than it would be in real life. No matter how realistic a movie seems, it's still a movie, and things aren't going to play out like they would without a script and a camera. Everything means something; there are all these subtle (and not-so-subtle) hints of a deeper meaning behind all the surface comments and glances that just aren't there in everyday existence.
Prettylittlelie put it really well by saying that sex isn't about sex anymore, it's about power. I think that's true. Oliver's still new enough to sex that he can feelor thinks he can feelthe love that's supposed to be behind it. But if you do it enough, you've got to figure you'll become desensitized to it, like Dodge hassex isn't sexual, isn't pleasure, isn't connectionit's power; it's money; it's how he stays alive. So if sex has stopped being sex, what's wrong with brothers doing it? If you've degraded it to the point where it basically has nothing to do with what we think about when we think, "sex", incest shouldn't carry any of the connotations that it once did. That's what David is trying to show Dodgejust how sad, just how unreal his life has become.

"I don't think David was being raped, tooin the coffee shop, he says to Dodge, "I didn't know he was doing those things to you," or something like that."

I think David thought he was the only one getting abused. Maybe - at the time - he even thought he was protecting Dodge by taking the abuse. It happens a lot that way.

No text.

Wow that's pretty impressive. I'm going to have to watch the movie again, I only saw the last half of it and I didn't even realise it was based off OT until some said 'Fagin.' Goes to show my powers of observation I guess.

You're not funny if you can repeat lines from Napoleon Dynamite.

The reason David makes Dodge give him a blow job is to prove a point. He did not want Dodge to be a male junkie prostitute, but Dodge thought it was the only way to escape his troubled past. David makes him do it to show that its a bad living and its only hurting the people that care about him [such as his brother]. He is not being perverted. He is proving that its Dodge's fault and NOT his brother's fault that Dodge has ended up in this way of life.

"What do you want with him?"
-"Sexno no no WHAT?"

I saw it from the other point of view. David made a choice (he says that a lot) but his choice was to ignore his upbringing and succed. But his choice also meant allowing his brother to be victimised, David still lives with the father thus he is still legtimizing what went on. He's torn with guilt and his purpose is to resolve that guilt. In the coffee shop he says he needs Dodge to understand and acknowledge his choice as superior, in effect he is saying Dodge is responsible. Responsible for his life and responsible for what happened to him, when Dodge doesn't accept this guilt David ups the stakes.

Just before he says "I don't do this, you do this", he forces Dodge to make a decision - but because it is a decision the responsiblity falls on Dodge. If he can't have Dodge's forgiveness then he is going to make Dodge responsibile.

He's not a pervert, but he is a bad guy. If he truly wanted to move on and succeed he should have helped Dodge, moved out of the family home etc. Forcing Dodge to shoulder the bureden of responsibility was symtomatic of his own abuse and its continued affect on him, as well as his own character flaws.

I'm inclined to agree more with your point of view. I don't think he gave Dodge the choice to prove a point. While the director may have been trying to prove a point through that scene, I don't think it was the character doing it.

Dodge needed the money. His brother was getting tired of giving something for nothing. He probably got to a point where he simply decided to see just what it was his brother did. Yes, he felt guilty immediately, but do you think he was going to make his brother stop? No. His glands were telling him one thing while his head was telling him that he just screwed up big time.

Like I said, the director was trying to make a point through that scene, but the character was just an idiot.

I was under a definate impression that David and Dodge were both foster kids (as its based off Oliver Twistorphans and runnaways?) Still, that scene, either as brothers by blood or just by upbringing, definately makes your stomach turn and forces you to think.

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Yes, he felt guilty immediately, but do you think he was going to make his brother stop?

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He definitely didn't stop him. I was thinking "He can't really mean that, he's saying it only to humiliate Dodge, he can't want him to actually do that, he will stop him before it's too late!", you know, as with Isaac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac).
But he didn't stop him. Did he ask it hoping that Dodge was not going to do that?

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No. His glands were telling him one thing while his head was telling him that he just screwed up big time.

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I felt the opposite: I thought that he "rationally" considered that the right thing to do (humiliate Dodge to save it), although this is obviously wrong (see also the comment by liquidmonkey-1, Mon Jan 4 2010 02:04:34), but he didn't enjoy it phisically at all (see also comments about sex which is not just sex any more), and he was disgusted as well; or perhaps he wasn't disgusted, he was just disappointed because he felt that Dodge was hopeless, that he couldn't make him stop asking money and hustling and come back "home".

Okay a person who forces his own brother to give him oral sex is evil and is certainly in no position to judge anyone else's life. Dodge, a prostitute who does drugs, is a million times more moral and is a much better man than his normal-seeming brother who forces Dodge to give him oral sex. David is beyond evil. This whole scene shows why people pick the streets over their family. Better to sell yourself to strangers than to live with family members who are not only raping you they consider themselves to be superior to you because they aren't prostitutes and the truth is, people like Dodge are angels compared to demons like his brother.

I agree. Still, it's unclear what David actually wanted, I think.

'Just before he says "I don't do this, you do this", he forces Dodge to make a decision - but because it is a decision the responsiblity falls on Dodge. If he can't have Dodge's forgiveness then he is going to make Dodge responsibile. '

Good perspective. I need to watch the movie again.

My Store: http://skreened.com/pgaesthetics/

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I am truly astounded at what some people believe. You are saying that David forces Dodge to perform oral sex to show him that selling sex is wrong. Really? There was no other way to do that? David is not trying to help Dodge. A man who would do what David does is a very cruel, sadistic man. David is an abusive rapist. How anyone can see David's rape of his brother as anything other than that astounds me. The fact that people think David is trying to help Dodge sickens me. Abusers often tell their victims that the abuse is for their own good. It's not.

I'm sorry, but you have probably never been more wrong in your entire life. You do NOT have sex with your sibling to make a point or teach them an object lesson. I am not passing judgment on people who choose to have sex with their siblings. What I am saying is that Dodge / Jimmy protested - he did not want to perform oral sex on his brother David. David, who acted in a loathsome fashion, insisted that Dodge / Jimmy perform fellatio in order to receive money from David. Did Dodge / Jimmy have a choice? Yes, he did. However, the choice was a Hobson's Choice: If Dodge / Jimmy had not gotten money, he might have been beaten or killed by his pimp, Bill. Therefore, Dodge chose to fellate his brother. However, David sought Dodge out for weeks on end with one goal in mind - to have sex with him. Once David revealed his motives, and Dodge protested, that should have been the end of it - for someone who is not "perverted". The bottom line is: David is perverted for coercing Dodge to fellate him.

We're never going to agree on what ingredients are most important in the recipe of a good movie.

Good point! :)

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Prettylittlelie , I agree with your portrayal of the scene. It was very painful to watch.

I watched this DVD last night and already sent it back to Netflix, I wish I hadn't after reading all these comments I wanna watch it agian.

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I don't know, I could be wrong, I often am.

Well said, well said. This movie makes you think. I've been trying to understand the psychology of this movie. You really have to look past the surface. These characters have a history.

My Store: http://skreened.com/pgaesthetics/

Even with the scene being edited on Logo, it was quite apparent that Dodge's brother had him perform oral sex on him. It was quite clear in the dialogue. He gave him $300 the night before to keep him off the street, and Dodge asked for money again, and to prove a point, or perhaps mess him up even more said "let me see what you can do.", which proved that his brother was as messed up as he is, just minus the drugs. It's not a wonder why he refused to go back home.

I think that whole scene pushes it a little. Sure it seems like his brother is trying to prove a point. But why make him suffer through that? I really don't understand his brothers thinking in this movie. I know there are so many theories or whatever in this scene, but I think it just boils down to sexual abuse!

Of course its abuse but its the why that makes us think, not just the action.

Definitely not about "proving a point". No one has incestual sex / rape to prove a point.
David did it because he wanted to, because of the cycle of abuse. David was abused, and now he's an abuser, and he chose to abuse Dodge.