The New Edition Story : Seriously, What Happened to R&B Groups?

Watching the New Edition story made me think again about R&B groups and how they are no more in existence. To me R&B in general is at a stand still right now.. How did we let music that was for us by us die out?

I was born in 1980 and I remember so many R&B boy bands that I loved besides New Edition.. The Boys, Hi-Five, Troop, Color Me Badd, Another Bad Creation, Immature, Boys to Men, Jodeci, Guy, Az Yet, 112 etc and girl groups like TLC, SWV, 702, En Vogue, Blaque, Zhane ..these groups were killing it and ruling the charts. We are in a Hip Hop POP world only and why? I listen to a interview with Mike Bivins and he talked about he got 2 little girls and would love to take them to a concert but there is no one out there to take them to. It's crazy kids today are growing up without R&B groups. R&B groups were the corner stone to growing up.. Any thoughts why? and whether they can make a comeback?

R & B groups are done, unfortunately. Like it was said, no one wants to split checks muktiple ways. You have individual acts who team up and collaborate, but 3,4, and 5 people (and their parents) getting together and agreeing just won't gappen. Bad for music, but good for the individual. Too many new editions have been exploited and adults supposedly looking out for their better interests end up getting over. Can anybody name one group that parlayed their fame into lifetime monetary success? Everybody wants to be a mogul like Jay-Z, P Diddy, etc. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Well its sad it's all about the money to the music industry and to the artist.. Some people will never shine without a group. Not everyone is made to be the front man or females.. I know groups are in the toilet but what about R&B music in general? whats its excuse for falling off the rails too??? You got artist like the weekend, and bruno mars killing it but no one else

Unfortunately, youcan say the same thing about more or less any genre of music.

Some of those groups you listed were not really tailored towards teens and younger. I couldn't imagine taking my kids to a Color Me Bad or Jodeci concert. That was strictly for adults.

R&B music in general (and groups in general) are nearly dead.

Music industry as a whole is suffering severely from the lack of variety. There being no music oriented television shows anymore to promote artists and their music. MTV is no longer being MTV is a big part of it.

MTV and to a lesser extent BET needs to get back to what they were in the early 2000s. MTV Live/TRL, Making of the Video, Direct Effect, Diary, Rockumentary, etc. either need to come back or new versions need to be made.

VH1, the sophisticated alternative to MTV, is ironically now a tacky reality TV show station worse than MTV.

There's no American Bandstand or Soul Train either.

People tried to blame the internet/YouTube, which is false. So long as there's no one place where all artists can come together and show us what they've got to bring to the table, the music industry will continue to die and new artists are going to have a harder time breaking out.

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There being no music oriented television shows anymore to promote music and artists (MTV is no longer MTV) is a big part of it.

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Yes, back then MTV and BET were the perfect outlets for artists (old and new) to promote and advertise their music. That was the only way you could tell someone was coming out with a new album along with radio play. Nowadays they only have the Internet, On Demand and interviews to rely on.

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There being no music oriented television shows anymore to promote music and artists (MTV is no longer MTV) is a big part of it.

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True but you would think with the internet like Youtube which is free with wifi that it would be even more publicity since people had to pay for MTV and BET. TRL and 106 and Park were the last shows that geared towards helping people buy music

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music stores are closing

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It's sad kids don't care about actually buying an physical album anymore .. these downloads single handily changed the way we buy and appreciate music forever

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Too much infighting, jealousy and having to split a check 5 different ways. Just because R&B groups are no longer around for the kids doesn't mean they can't crack open their parents old tapes, records and CDs and listen to those and then there's the old faithful Youtube.

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Agree and music/radio sucks so much right now that I play old music and old music now includes the 90's lol.. I barely listen to the radio. I hope and pray music will change and these kids do look at the past and go I want to revive that

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I think that this movie may have just inspired the next era of kids sitting in front of their tvs watching this show to form a next generation New Edition type of group. Time will tell

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I hope so.. I hope so. maybe a future Barry Gordy like young man or female will one day decide to bring good music back. I hope it does inspire young talent.

You can say that again, I agree 100% I don't know how the music industry got so out of hand and the untalented people just became all successful and the ones with talent are underrated now. I miss how my music networks used to be like MTV and BET I miss them playing music nearly 24/7 and BET playing both grown folks and the hip hop music was a great way to promote new and upcoming artist or to see if your favorite artist is coming out with something new. I miss MTV used to play different genre (nearly everything except jazz and country).

Then of course there is VH1 Soul, MTV Jams, MTV Hits, MTV Classic, but you have to pay for those networks if you want to watch these music networks and cable bills is already high as it is. I know there is youtube but sometimes you get tired of looking up an artists, it just take the fun out of it when these music network can just play the music videos.

There are so many reasons why.

My guesses:

- everything is so homogenized now. Voices and songs sound the same. Even the structure of a song is different. You don't hear songs like I Will Always Love You by Whitney or a Boyz II Men where you only hear the voice(s) at the beginning. So much emphasis now is on the beat.

- music stores are closing (HMV Canada just announced they are closing all stores across Canada) so less money to put into developing acts, recording albums, releasing albums, promoting those albums.

- people don't seem to appreciate harmonies. One of the best things about R&B groups which The New Edition Story showed was how beautiful vocal arrangements can be. I mean, do we even have a modern day "Can You Stand the Rain"?

I hope one day we'll get more R&B groups. People still do respond to strong vocals as evident with the sales of Adele's albums.

Too much infighting, jealousy and having to split a check 5 different ways. Just because R&B groups are no longer around for the kids doesn't mean they can't crack open their parents old tapes, records and CDs and listen to those and then there's the old faithful Youtube. Young people still have plenty of outlets for great R&B groups/music, it may not be new and "trendy" but it's right at their fingertips.

Smokybrowneyes- you are corrent. My 16 year old daughter watched this mini series, and now she's listening to new edition, Johnny gill and asking for other groups/singers in the same vein. Music is music & people will always appreciate good music.

That is great, music is endless. There is so much good music for everyone of all ages. Some people are just too lazy to explore it and only rely on whatever is playing on the radio at the time which sucks. Just because so many groups/artists came out before your time doesn't mean you can't catch up on it now. It isn't going anywhere.

We know about YouTube and old cds . But still R&b didn't deserve to die out on radio like it did.

I'm Blade brown, the Dopest, ,hypest brotha, on the block!

R&B and other music genres have died out or is watered down. For good music (old and new) we have no other choice but to go on Youtube, Google play, Cds, local shows, etc. or deal with watery stuff from the radio.

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Seriously, Almost every R&B act of the 90s sampled oldies and/or had rappers on the song

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Now I feel like today R&B has to cater to pop much like it had to cater to hip hop in the 90's.. R&B artist have to be pop or have a pop like tone to it now. It's hard to even hear smooth RB ballads anymore .. they just don't exists

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But still R&b didn't deserve to die out on radio like it did.

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Sad isn't it..

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It's as if you had to listen to a Mint Condition, Tony Toni Tone or someone known for their ballads for the closest thing to real R&B. Neo-soul saved R&B for a few years due to 70's R&B, Jazz and Latin influences but then that went under the radar. I LOVE neo-soul (a whole other topic) even if many of the artists don't like being called that.

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It's sad how neo soul faded out as well ..it did bring some real R&B vibe back .. give me a angie stone like person please to come and bring back some goodness.. I want R&B ballads back.. on the radio I use to love to listen to the quiet storm .. its sad no music today can even fit that

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That the new jack swing is also hitting it's stride

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I love new jack swing music.. it brought out some of the best music in history.. but yeah it was the markings of hip hop and R&B coming together

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Now I feel like today R&B has to cater to pop much like it had to cater to hip hop in the 90's.. R&B artist have to be pop or have a pop like tone to it now. It's hard to even hear smooth RB ballads anymore .. they just don't exists

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pretty much. I saw on my facebook feed Tinashe's "Company" because she or her label paid facebook to promote their post

Wikipedia says it's R&B. I'm like "NO this is pop"

Doing nothing is hard, you never know when youre done - Tawatha Agee

R&B started to go downhill in the 90s when hip-hop took over, in my opinion

Seriously, Almost every R&B act of the 90s sampled oldies and/or had rappers on the song


SWV, total, En Vogue, Usher, Faith Evans, Brandy, Monica, Aaliyah, TLC, 702, immature, Boyz II Men, H-town, Mary J Blige, ETC

You name it, Their music had to much of a rap edge to it because they were always using samples of Real R&B and/or doing collobarations with rappers. I just felt like that made R&B stand for "rap and borrowing", lol/

Sampling started out in Rap in the 80s and it was Rap then, not hip-hop. Then when rap started taking off further in the 90s, it was mixed into what was considered R&B. Sampling even crossed over into pop because Jessica Simpson had a hit with a sample and Mariah Carey & Janet Jackson had hits with samples and/or rappers.

I can't listen to a song like Total's "can't you see" and think "That's real R&B". No, not when they're sampling James Brown and Biggie's rapping on the song. that's hip-hop. I mean don't get me wrong, I love the music and all, but i just can't look at it as r&b.. not with the samples and rappers

I don't think real R&B will ever come back. the industry just changed too much. it started in the 90s. The music was good, it just wasn't R&B to me. It was hip-hop

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R&B started to go downhill in the 90s when hip-hop took over, in my opinion

Seriously, Almost every R&B act of the 90s sampled oldies and/or had rappers on the song

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Arrrgh! That was the worse part of 90's R&B. I'm even okay with a little bit of sampling but throughout the entire song? Not so much. I think one of the first R&B and Rapper collaborations was Jody Watley and Rakim's song "Friends" if not the first then second.
It's as if you had to listen to a Mint Condition, Tony Toni Tone or someone known for their ballads for the closest thing to real R&B. Neo-soul saved R&B for a few years due to 70's R&B, Jazz and Latin influences but then that went under the radar. I LOVE neo-soul (a whole other topic) even if many of the artists don't like being called that.

Also, I like to add. That the new jack swing is also hitting it's stride. I guess we can look back and call new jack a bridge between r&b with today's hip hop. And one the hottest new jack swing acts was BBD.

LOL.you starting to sound like my dad I remember he used to make a cassette tape of the CDs I have that has samples on them. After awhile he got tired of it and said that is all these singers do is sample.no originality.

I will admit R&B was still decent even though around 1995 it started to have that hip hop flavor.


On to the radio topicI don't really listen to the radio unless its the light rock yesterday and today favorite station, old school/new school R&B station, some days I'll listen to the mainstream pop station. Most of the stations play the same songs over and over every hour on the hour like the R&B station play the same new R&B songs over and over again I wish they would play Solange Knowles new one, I think they go off on who ever is popular. Mainstream station.they are not like the used to be I wish they would play 80s, 90s, and early 00s pop music as well.

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LOL.you starting to sound like my dad I remember he used to make a cassette tape of the CDs I have that has samples on them. After awhile he got tired of it and said that is all these singers do is sample.no originality.



I will admit R&B was still decent even though around 1995 it started to have that hip hop flavor.

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LOL I'm only 34. but it had that hip-hop flavor as early as 1990

En vogue came out with "hold on" in 1990 and it sampled James Brown's "payback" and they sampled a different part of "paypack" again for "never gonna get it" in 1992.

and in 1991, Patti Labelle had a song "Feels Like Another One" that had a rap verse from Big Daddy Kane.

Mary J Blige is called the queen of "hip-hop soul". Thats pretty much was 90s R&B was - hip-hop soul. I mean some of the songs lyrically were still R&B-ish. but the use of samples and rappers made it hip-hop

and also producers adding their vocals all over the tracks was also a problem in the 90s

It hard to look at a song like Monica's "the first night" as R&B when She's sampling Diana Ross and Jermaine Dupri keeps yapping his mouth throughout the song.



Doing nothing is hard, you never know when youre done - Tawatha Agee

Joe Public song "Live and Learn" sampled bits of Steely Dan's "Peg"

Color Me Badd's "I Wanna Sex you up" the very beginning sampled "Lodi Dodi"

go back to 1980 Teena Marie does her rap in "Square Biz"

go back even farther and we of course had Millie Jackson the "Godmother of Rap". Many female rappers were easily influenced by Millie in her "rapping" throughout her songs.

"and also producers adding their vocals all over the tracks was also a problem in the 90s"

^^^This! Its the whole "hype man" effect. And it is annoying. Puff Daddy and Jermain Dupri were both very guilty of this. You never heard Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis talking over a Janet Jackson record.

Going along with this R&B needs to get back to actual instruments. The beauty of "Can you stand the rain" is not just the great vocals. It is also that Jam and Lewis have actual instruments backing the vocals. There are some synthesizers. But its not overdone. The production doesn't sound plastic. It sounds real. It has depth. That is a big part of the R&B tradition as well.

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This! Its the whole "hype man" effect. And it is annoying. Puff Daddy and Jermain Dupri were both very guilty of this. You never heard Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis talking over a Janet Jackson record.

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Exactly. That was really annoying!!! It's like we get that you are the producer but do you have to say something on EVERY artists songs. You couldn't enjoy Biggie because Diddy was ALWAYS yapping in the song. You couldn't enjoy Mase because Diddy was ALWAYS yapping in the songs. You couldn't enjoy Total or Faith because Diddy was ALWAYS yapping in the songs. You couldn't enjoy 112, Danity Kane or Day 26 because once again Diddy had to make his presence known. Like you said you never heard Jimm and Terry talking over a Janet record or even a NE record. Or going back to the 60s and 70s you never heard Berry talking over a Supremes or Temptations record. Like can the artist have their 15 minutes of fame without you taking over the record/song. I see why all his artists ended up leaving him.

I know right I love R&B groups and miss the days when guys would try to form R&B groups so they can sing to women and harmonize. Anyways, I always like male groups over females, I do miss groups like TLC, Xscape, Destiny's Child, Pure Soul, Brownstone, 112, 3T, Immature, Mista, and etc. There are a few R&B groups that is still making music and touring Jagged Edge is still making music and touring (they are so underrated now), Dru Hill is touring they had a new album to come out back in 2010 and Sisqo had a new solo album out in 2014. BBD is back now that is a good thing, Boyz II Men and New Kids on The Block is back touring again.

I'm glad I was born in 1982 and got to experience some great music from the 80s and 90s.

There are too many reasons to enumerate.

However, the first logical and reasonable places to start are innovation/evolution, technological and economical.

Since you wrote music "by and for us," let's start with innovation/evolution.

Historically, Blacks in America's music goes back to Blues, Praise & Worship, and Jazz. The combination of those = innovation, moved to Rock-n-Roll, A Capella/Doo-Wop, Soul/R&B. The psychological caste system in the US created segregation and labelled it all as "devil" music. But you know how some can't resist that "devil" so they co-opted the styles and made huge $$ selling it to their masses.

Then some figured why not have the original artists perform it and make even more $$. Just tone it down [some call it "whitewashing"], put other photographs or artwork on the album covers, and pay Black artists way less $ to almost nothing.

An explosion of bands and singing groups happened when Blacks decided and learned how to market and promote themselves. Yet their audiences were limited and less prosperous so they were working harder and making less than when they were exploited by others. [Note: I've only gotten to the 1950s.]

To gain broader appeal, they toned it down a little more, blended some Latin grooves, made the songs more pop-ish = danceable, infectious hooks, and covered more "Standards." The Birth of Motown,

Getting the picture?

Those Latin grooves turned into Disco.

Technology took over = more innovation. Turned into "club music". House. Beats.

Arts curriculum was removed from public schools.

DJs/Emcees cashed in and recorded their own sets. Ne Rap/Hip-Hop.

R&B singers formed duets with rappers and vice versa.

To gain broader appeal [= sell more], they added "popular" guests to their recordings.

For those of clamoring for Old School = meaning music of '60s and '70s, "Retro" artists broke out.

But why aren't you seeing many groups anymore? Becoming a really good musician and performer is a serious investment. Would you practice all day every day or study and go to work where the payoff is guaranteed? Big labels aren't investing anymore. And why should they when mediocre performers have a bigger profit margin. Radio is gone. It's been monopolized by the oligarchy who only broadcast what gets them paid. And why spend a few $hundred thousand on making a video when folks download from YouTube?



Some have such a low esteem they create reasons to hate everyone else.

I don't know, but I sure wish they were still around.