Damien : Why would a Christian want to kill the antichrist?

Does everyone in the show think that God is totally incompetent and has really poor planning skills?
The antichrist is the key figure in starting the apocalypse, which is when Jesus returns.

What do these Catholic priests think will happen if they succeed in killing the antichrist?
The omniscient God says, "Oops, didn't see that one coming. I guess Jesus can't return to Earth, all the Biblical prophesies are invalid, and the universe will have to just continue running along without me. It's too bad I make all my long term plans with a single point of failure over which my omnipotence somehow has no control."

Why would anyone other than a Satanist want to obstruct God's plan?

All those people helping Damien must be among the most faithful Christians on the planet, so why do they always get such ominous music?

Maybe the writers are cleverly pointing out how the God of the Bible is clearly the bad guy, and Satan is the plucky underdog with really bad press. It's too bad for the devil that the only book that describes him was written by his mortal enemy. What if the only historical source for Jewish history was written by Hitler?

It was pretty much hinted in the episode. They want to maintain their power and if the Anti christ is succesful they will lose power. That is one of the conundrums it of religion call it the darkside if you will but the fact is it gives few people control over the lives of billions. They go to church they give money and you control their behaviors. It is not all roses and flowers.

I have an out there theory as far as Damien what if its not Satan who is protecting Damien what if its God. If he is suppose to fulfill the destiny and usher in the return of Christ. God also has an incentive to keep him safe

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It was pretty much hinted in the episode

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Agreed. Even before Ann said that about doing God's Will, the taxicab that killed Damian's assassin in episode 2 had a rosary or crucifix hanging. So it wasn't the forces of evil keeping Damien alive but God himself exerting control through a believer. That's what I got out of that anyway.

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I have an out there theory as far as Damien what if its not Satan who is protecting Damien what if its God. If he is suppose to fulfill the destiny and usher in the return of Christ. God also has an incentive to keep him safe

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That's my out there theory too.

The problem with this theory is that the Catholic priests still actually believe in the omnipotent God of the Bible (since they clearly believe in the antichrist as they're going to a lot of trouble to try to kill him). They can't be purely cynical actors who only want to maintain their power on Earth, because they genuinely believe in an all knowing, all powerful God.

What rational person would actually think they could interrupt God's plan without God noticing or doing anything to stop them. Having perfect knowledge of the future and total power, should make your long term plans pretty robust.

You'd have to be either mentally retarded or literally insane with zero logical reasoning skills if you genuinely have any hope of success in forcing the Christian God's plan to change.

The Christians today worship a being that preached about turning the other cheek, giving to the poor, being forgiving, a guy that washed a whore's feet. They believe in the omnipotent, omniscient god of the bible, yet many of them think we should take the bible so literal. They believe in a god who describes himself as a jealous god who has murdered people for believing in a different god and they proudly parade their tolerance for other religions.

I could go on, but long story short, the show would be unrealistic if the religious weren't repeatedly contradicting everything they believe.

This means the entire show is a deadpan satirical takedown of the illogical, contradictory nature of Christian theology. The dark, ominous tone is just the writers refusing to break character.

This is my new favorite theory.

I will now proceed to watch this show as the spiritual successor to "Garth Marenghi's Darkplace" (which, in case you haven't seen it, is amazing).

I'm with you on the hypocrisy of the church but it's not written that the church shouldn't try to oppose the anti christ. Just to play devils advocate (pun intended haha). Even if they believe the apocalypse will come they could either believe:

a) They can "push back" the apocalypse a few centuries.

b) They must fight him even if they are doomed to die as martyrs.

It's really too bad that there isn't a third religious faction in the series - christians who want the anti christ to succeed to bring about the apocalypse besides the catholic church who opposes them for whatever reason. Christianity is a doomsday cult. But probably that would sell very well to the viewers.

Besides it's thinkable that the catholic church and the pope have access to some secret revelations that is only known to them, passed down through 2000 years of history. "Read in case of apocalypse" or something lol.

ANSWER: It's still a battle. It's still God's plan to battle against the Anti-Christ. And Satan has his own bible and his own people who do thinks that they can win. And Satan's bible does claim that he's not the "bad guy".

I don't believe Satan is even mentioned in the bible, actually.



Who hurt you, vicious circle?

Or barely mentioned anyway.

It seems like various threatening characters may have been edited together into what people today think of as Satan.

The serpent in the Gardern of Eden isn't identified as the leader of an army of rebellious angels. The story itself just has a talking snake in it. Someone who already believes in Satan can decide it was him, but then why were all snakes from then on punished by having to crawl on the ground? I guess Rottweilers and ravens better watch out.

Jewish and Christian (mostly Christian) demonology has adapted the names of some of the gods of supposedly evil cults in Biblical times as demons, but it's not clear if they were thought to actually exist as enemies of God or if they were merely idols.

In Job, there is definitely a character called Satan, but he actually seems more like God's servant in charge of testing people to see if they are faithful. He never insults God, he merely suspects Job of being a hypocrit.

The text about "Lucifer" who has fallen was probably talking about a human king.

The New Testament, though, does have a lot of references to evil spirits, a Devil or Satan, a Man of Sin, and various Beasts who seem like leaders of the forces of evil. How much of this is about literal supernatural beings is a matter of debate.

Jewish traditions about demons became prevalent in literature after the books considered scriptural by Jews were completed.

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Or barely mentioned anyway.

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Satan, 49 times.
Devil, 57 times.

Barely? But there are many names for Satan. And even if he's only mentioned once but he's said to be the ring leader of all those who are out to wreck the sh.t out of humanity, then shouldn't that be much more important than a mere numerical value of times mentioned?

I underestimated the number of references, but my main point was the massive worldview shift that occurred between the long period in which most of the Hebrew Bible was written and the 1st Century.

There are no references in the older writings which **have to** refer to the type of Devil presented in Christian scripture or in some later Jewish traditions.

I agree that in Jesus' time, his contemporaries believed in evil spirits because he was often asked to cast them out and even accused of being possessed himself. These spirits were taken for granted then.

But the original hearers and readers of the Torah and other pre-exilic Biblical literature seemed to have no such ideas. The new interest in demons may have been an influence of religions the Jews encountered in exile or when dominated by foreign empires.

These had plenty of cosmic battles and chief gods betrayed by their subordinates. Zoroastrianism even had a two great gods, one who ruled the forces of good and the other, evil.

There is hardly any mention of supernatural beings besides God and the angels. The idea that any bad ones are organized into a hierarchy under a single extremely powerful Devil is not implied.

The only rebellious angels are one who lusted for human women and their attraction to the women is given as the cause of their sinnot a hatred of God or even the desire to produce the giants these unions caused.

The title or name Satan is used occasionally, especially in the book of Job, but it is debatable whether the Satan of Job is God's enemy or his advisor.

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There is hardly any mention of supernatural beings besides God and the angels. The idea that any bad ones are organized into a hierarchy under a single extremely powerful Devil is not implied.

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What do you think that they (the demons, fallen angels, etc.) do all day for thousands of years and more? Why wouldn't there be any hierarchial system when there exists one for the angels? Archangel, Michael, is said to lead the ARMY of God's angels. This implies order. It's just common sense.

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The only rebellious angels are one who lusted for human women and their attraction to the women is given as the cause of their sinnot a hatred of God or even the desire to produce the giants these unions caused.

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No, they were already fallen angels and therefore, already damned.but they still feared God in their fallen state. They even said that should they mate with human females, this would enrage even more God.they contemplated in not doing so, but their lust overwhelmed them. This lead to the Nephilim offspring between angels and men.leading to Noah's flood, destroying the world.

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The title or name Satan is used occasionally, especially in the book of Job, but it is debatable whether the Satan of Job is God's enemy or his advisor.

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Haha, who debates thisoh yea, the Luciferanists(wink, wink)?

Satan is mentioned MANY TIMES and even more for The Devil.

He is mentioned - and often, especially by Jesus. You would have heard of the tempting in the desert? Jesus won.

If Satan has his own book, he needs to find a better publisher. The Bible is the biggest best seller of all time, while I've never seen or heard of the devil's book. Was it "50 Shades of Grey"?

it's 2016, grandpa. instead of sitting there thinking up a corny joke and typing it into a post, you could have googled it already.

I thought it was a funny joke.

I think more likely is that the Church do not want to give up their power, and that if Christ comes again to save mankind and usher everyone into heaven, then they will lose everything. It's not God trying to kill Damien, but the Roman Catholic Church, and we KNOW they haven't been following God's scripture since the inception of the church. Their doctrine is based far more on Saul of Tarsus' writings than the actual Gospels.

Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm a man of wealth and taste

Well, there was the Satanic Bible, but the author was an atheist who just liked the idea of Satan.

The most famous and well-sold book about Satan is Anton La Vey's "Satanic Bible". It was written in 1976 and is still on sale (well, at least the plain paperbacks, the used harcovers are now so rare they sell between 500$ and 2,220$!!), even on Amazon (http://amzn.com/0380015390). Laveyan Satanism is what could be referred as "humanistic or atheistic Satanism". There is no personal Satan just as there is no personal God. It is more of a philosophy than a religion, broadly drawing from Nietzsche, Ayn Rand and others. The concept of Satan is symbolic rather than literal.

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Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.

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But this would have nothing to do with the type of Satanists who are expecting an Antichrist figure to lead them. La Vey fans would hate such a person.

What do you think that the art of deception, is?

Here's a counter viewpoint from one of La Vey's kid, probably a bastard, who converted to Christianity:

God is a fictional character.

Nothing about the whole story of God makes any sense.
All the stories were written about fables that they had been told.

you're narrow minded.

You are right, saying just fables is narrow minded, there is also folklore and wishful thinking.

you're still narrow minded, just not as narrow minded as the other guy.

You are judgmental, and don't use proper punctuation.

There is no god probably.

you're a hypocrite, who's guilty of judging me but too stupid to realize it.

And you're a troll who hates themselves and passes judgment on other people in a pathetic attempt to feel better. Go away.

As for the show I don't think anyone is wrong or right in their views on what's really happening. It's wide open to interpretation.

You're a stupid idiot. Learn to read. I wasn't against judging, he was. Stay in school loser.

Whatever you say troll.

aww, you're mad now stupid?

Skipped a few English classes, did we?
You're being an *beep* right now; no one has to subscribe to your faith, and no one has to be berated for it.
Go away.

Agreed

damned! why do u spoil it?

As per the Rumsfeld discourse is a known unknown.

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The omniscient God says, "Oops, didn't see that one coming. I guess Jesus can't return to Earth, all the Biblical prophesies are invalid, and the universe will have to just continue running along without me. It's too bad I make all my long term plans with a single point of failure over which my omnipotence somehow has no control."

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Same mindset that underlies preaching social justice and the end of poverty(all noble and worthwhile goals, don't misunderstand)while also dry humping a book that sneers at "good works" in the here and now; hailing a long dead preacher from Galilee as God in the flesh is the only deed valid, we're assured.

Can't we all just agree this is all fiction. God isn't real, Jesus may have been a nice guy capable of sleight of hand tricks, but is long dead.

GOD ISN'T DEAD! He just never really existed.

Although the myth can make for a good series. :)

Beliefs should affect behaviors, even in a fictional universe.

Plenty of characters in 'Game of Thrones' believe in the existence of dragons and ice zombies, and their behaviors are modulated in logical ways in response to those beliefs.

The problem with 'Damien' is that the writers seem to be implying that the people hunting Damien (trying to kill the antichrist) are mostly real Catholics who supposedly believe in the omniscient, omnipotent God of the Bible. This behavior has clearly not been logically affected by their supposedly Catholic beliefs.

The easiest explanation the writers could insert would be that the "Catholics" hunting Damien have a secret non-Christian theology in which God is not omnipotent and can potentially be defeated (basically a cult of secret Satanists). Alternatively they could write in a scene in which all the people trying to kill Damien are explained to be mentally retarded priests who don't understand the definition of omnipotent.

If a character believes in the existence of ice zombies, they should act a certain way when walking through a dark forest. If a character believes in the existence of an omnipotent God, they should act a certain way when dealing with their God's perfect plan re: an antichrist.

I think if a writer treats the Christian God honestly in their narrative, the omnipotence is pretty much guaranteed to kill any suspense or drama. Greek and Norse mythology produce coherent dramatic stories more readily, because their gods have limited power and knowledge.

To be fair to the show writers, most of the stories in the Bible are written in the same incoherent way: as if the authors assume that God is not actually omnipotent or omniscient.

I got the feeling, as other people have said, that the Vatican is hunting Damien because they do not want the apocalypse to start as they're happy being rich and powerful and if Christ returned it would signal the end of the church as we know it. Sister Greta also echoed this belief that the vatican were doing nothing to stop Damien despite knowing of his existance all these years, perhaps because they felt as a child he posed no threat to them? Who knows. Most of the lore of the three movies was thrown out in order to make a new story in this series. Either way, that's my two cents :) haha

Yes, because the belief in omnipotent God evolved from the worship of an obscure household god El Shadai. The bible stories reflect this evolution.

BBL

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God isn't real, Jesus may have been a nice guy capable of sleight of hand tricks, but is long dead.

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you're very closed minded and intolerant. are you a Nazi by any chance?

No, you're closed-minded for dismissing his point and calling him a nazi instead of engaging in a discussion.

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Jesus may have been a nice guy capable of sleight of hand tricks, but is long dead.

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That actually reminds me of the movie The Man From Earth, which was a very interesting take on Jesus being an immortal caveman and not Jewish but more Buddist and how Men twisted things to suit themselves.

Ah, come on, that's easy! Free will. Besides, how would you know His plan doesn't include attempts to kill him as an integral part of the Plan??

zorro6204, you answered the wrong question.
The question was not: "Why would God ALLOW someone to attempt to kill the antichrist?" That is obviously allowed by free will. Everything that happens is a part of an omnipotent Gods plan, by definition (according to Christian theology). If something happened that wasn't a part of God's plan, then he wouldn't be both perfect and omnipotent.

The question was: "Why would a Christian, WANT to kill the antichrist?"

A true Christian believes that God's plan is perfect and inevitable, and according to the Bible, His plan includes an antichrist appearing before Jesus returns. According to the book of Revelation, the antichrist will basically rule the entire planet and won't be defeated until after Jesus returns. Thus, there is literally no reason for a Christian to want to kill the antichrist, except to interfere with God's plan of having the antichrist conquer the Earth.

Interfering with God's plan seems distinctly unchristian.

Personally if you read the Bible it seems less that God is actually omnipotent and omniscience and more just (knowledgeable and powerful)^100. Taken like that Revelations makes a lot more sense forgive me as its been a long time since I've read it but from what I remember it's less 'this is how the world is going to end' but more I think you should know that this is how the devils planning to end the world and this is how we plan to stop it.
Taken with this interpretation it makes more sense that they would try to stop it as for all we know the devils been trying to pull this sort of thing every 100 years or so and there's just always been people there to stop him.



That being said they may just be doing a Greek tragedy narrative where some one is fated to do something, tries not to, then it happens anyway.

Yeah, I think other religions knew instinctively not to make their gods both all knowing and infinitely powerful, since it just creates a logical contradiction (and less interesting stories).

As some observant people have pointed out, being omnipotent and omniscient is as impossible as being a "married bachelor." It is literally impossible to be both married and a bachelor at the same time, by definition.

Likewise, it is literally impossible to be both omnipotent and omniscient, because perfect knowledge of the future precludes free will. If you have always known exactly what will happen in the future, everything is predetermined, because if something happened differently, then you would have been wrong about the future and thus not omniscient.

If you can't change what will happen in the future, because it is already predetermined, then you are not omnipotent.
If God knew every "choice" he would ever make from the beginning of time, then he never had any choices to begin with.

A clockwork God, just going through his predetermined motions like any other force of nature.

Christianity defined their God out of existence, but they don't seem to have noticed.

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Yeah, I think other religions knew instinctively not to make their gods both all knowing and infinitely powerful, since it just creates a logical contradiction (and less interesting stories).

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To be fair they have some interesting stories about the human characters, but not so much God once absolute monotheism is established.

In earlier parts of the Bible, this isn't so clear. God rests, asks questions, bargains, is implied to be one god among many (but the only one his people should worship) and is even defeated in a physical fight by Jacob and is able to help one of the warriors in the book of judges EXCEPT against one enemy who has chariots of iron.

There was a theological impulse to imagine the Divine without limits; beyond what early civilizations would think of as a god. Similar developments happened in Greek philosophy and Eastern mysticism.

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it is literally impossible to be both omnipotent and omniscient, because perfect knowledge of the future precludes free will.

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I'm not sure about this. It's weird but not truly a contradiction if you assume God exists outside of time (or our conception of time) and already exercised his power in the future (thus also knowing all about it).