The Young Pope : SuperVillain ?? I think not !!

After episode 5 last night.. I saw at least 3 articles referring to the Young Pope as a villain.. I found this amusing, it seems like the show is portraying him as an actual saint, who performs miracles, doesn't give in to temptation, and shuts down the obviously corrupt system that preceded him. So what makes him a villain?

Yeah the whole supervillain thing is a pretty stupid observation. The character obviously is highly Machiavellian in nature. But he is also being portrayed (aside from his frequent doubts) as pretty much a paragon of holiness.

I love how there were basically two schools of thought in the church, between the liberals and conservatives. And the college decided "*beep* it lets roll the dice on an unknown" and he ended up not really representing either group, and instead brings the church back to medieval times.

His character is just so freaking interesting! There's so many sides to him. It's making the show pretty addicting to watch.

I agree and the music is killer, lol

Exactly! And I love how I can't figure out what's going on. There are wonderful twists and turns, the filming gives an ethereal quality to him on screen with bright white light and random acts, the visuals and the music, how he always knows what's going on behind the scenes and calls everyone on their bluff.

I still want to know what Sister's role is in this. I have no doubt at least one miracle occurred with Lenny in the past (and continues to occur).

Either he will divide the Church so much that they become united or he will shine a new beacon in the community. Can't wait to see how this unfolds!




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And I stepped on the ping pong ball!

He is attracted to women, no doubt but doesn't take the offer after a hand on the boob. I mean that is will power. Don't know if he is holy as he is on a mission. He could be truly a Saint, a church changing Pope or the Anti-Christ.

Im more humble than you can understand-Donnie Dump

Nothing to indicate Pius XIII is a villain. Not yet.

At the risk of sounding like a 'PotHead Conspiracy theorist" it's a little concerning that these very popular publications i.e.; Rolling Stone, Vulture, the A.V. Club, all headline their episode 5 review, with the SuoerVillain/Unholy Trinity angle.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not ready to see Pius XIII as a villain. Not yet.

Might be nice if we could discuss this series as a form of art that is causing its audience to think outside the box. Jude Law is mesmerizing in this series. As if intentionally toying with all of our emotions, beliefs and normes.

Awaiting the series finale before drawing any kind of conclusions on Lenny. It may just be that we'll all be left with no conclusions but a lot of soul searching. Isn't that healthy way to maintain one's faith?

Not a villain? How about the fact that he hates homosexuals? A litmus test for sexual proclivities of every priest? Or that he will absolutely not tolerate any woman who has an abortion? How about he wants no toleration for anyone who dissents? There is no love or compassion in his words - only hatred and intolerance. He mocks and despises almost everyone he comes across. He makes the confessional priest tell him the confessions of the others so that he can basically blackmail them into total obedience and compliance. He threatens the prime minister of Italy by warning that he will make his Catholic supporters disappear. (If I were that prime minister, I would have said at the press conference that the pope was a lunatic who was antithetical to basic Catholic values).

You're wrong, O.P. Lenny is a "villain" by any definition of that word.

I don't think he's a villain. He's a newly appointed leader of one of the oldest most powerful organizations on the planet. An organization who's ideologies, and practices. Albeit are not politically correct or sensitive in today's world, but are still major major stances they have stood on for centuries. He's an ORIGINALIST. ( there's that word again) he sees how weak and corrupt the church has become, and he may blame that on the compromising and waivering of the century's old values the church stands on.
And I'm not gonna debate the catholic church's practices. Just saying he's a leader of an organization which he was raised within. He's running it like it was meant to be ran.

I'm not Catholic but to me, what the Catholic Church "stands for" before anything else (or at least attempts to) is forgiveness and compassion. Religions evolve - and must evolve - to conform somewhat with the beliefs of the civilized world. The Catholic Church stubbornly clings to certain notions (my "favorite" being that even married couples aren't supposed to use condoms) but there is no question that the Church strives to be welcoming and forgiving. His "turn back the clock" attitude makes him, in my view, a villain. But it's not only that, it's the utter contempt and arrogance he displays to almost everybody. (And if you think that I probably feel the same way about another particular person right now - you would be right).

All that being said, I really like the show.

Lol.. First of all let me commend you on your resistance of making the Super obvious parallels, I myself have been fighting not to make them as well . I think this a great thought provoking show, that can stir up so many different debates and conversations. I'm gonna disagree with you, when you say "Religions are supposed to Evolve/Conform with the civilized world" I believe that's exactly what Religion should not do. I believe they hold strong to their beliefs even when, no, especially, when the "Civilised" world opposes said beliefs, otherwise, you have ZERO credibility, You can't spend centuries asking your followers to believe in,and support the ideas and practices , that are the very foundation on which you are built , just to waiver, back pedal, or flip flop, at political and social pressure. Even if they're as Questionable AF

Well the major religions have clearly evolved. I don't know what religion you are but would you want it to hold firm on views that people had centuries ago regarding non-believers, homosexuals, adulterers or women in general? In the Old Testament there is a passage that a disrespectful son can be put to death by his parents. In fact, the death penalty for many offenses is deemed appropriate. The Old Testament version of God in fact, pretty much behaves like a spoiled child who demands that his Divine Ass be continually kissed, and non-believers to either be killed or converted. Not to mention the historical egregious behavior of the Catholic Church towards other religions (including mine). Religions in the modern world MUST adopt to advances in civilized thinking or either become basically a regressive cult or die out. And maybe that's what Lenny's scheme really is - for Catholicism to die out. I guess it can be argued that all religions should die out - but I would say that the more secular forms of the major religions have done a lot of good in the world with their emphasis on tolerance and charity. My branch of my religion, for instance, makes it an obligation to help "repair the world," (with less emphasis on "belief") which I think is an excellent sentiment.

Love or hate The Young Pope the show pulls no punches and in this PC media age I find it refreshing. Don't get me wrong I'm a Catholic who believes in a woman's right to choose, in using contraception, that gays are born gay. I guess you can say in Lenny's eyes I'm not a good Catholic but I love that the show lays it out there.

A very brave and interesting show that has greatly surprised me. It will never change my opinions because I believe God needs to be in your heart. A Pope's or priest interpretation is still a mortals interpretation when a spiritual interpretation is within all of us. You know when you sin and you know when you do a good deed it's inherent.

Well enough of that but you see bringing a true vision of the church and what it's true doctrine is makes one think and reevaluate their own faith. Is that so terrible?

The bottom line that I think all the posters in this thread can agree on is that, no matter what one thinks of Lenny, one can appreciate this very unique and intriguing show. I hope it lasts past one season.

I do think the show is fascinating. Although I see a problem.I have very diverse friends,and although I'm not Catholic,I know and work with them. The good works of Catholic charities I admire so much that I want all religions to emulate it in this one respect. I have very different beliefs w/ the church re:family planning, euthanasia, pomp, wasted money on gold and jewels for the men in the church, the crappy treatment of nuns and last but not least, their criminal behavior when dealing with the child rapists they employ. The problem, in my opinion, is the show did nothing to add to both ends of my feelings. I don't respect the church more for its good works and I didn't learn more about that aspect, but on the flip side, holy crap, the Church seems nuts, certifiable, just heartbreakingly sad with respect to intelligent, logical thought. I have never felt more alienated to a devote Catholic who supports the institution than I do now. I'm more alienated to a devote Muslim with the Hijabs and the no alcohol and other things but this show just put devoted Catholics in second place tied with Mormons and Scientologists.
I am so freaking bewildered. These bishops, cardinals, the Pope, most are just freaking bad people with way too much power and privilege. You'd think I was talking about a Prince of Europe back
In the day or a trust fund brat. I'm actually talking about the people who represent the teachings of Jesus. Jesus, the guy who threw the money changers out of the Temple. The guy who said it's not about earthly riches, because the kingdom of Heaven has the real riches. The guy who appreciated and valued a prostitute. Wow, just wow.
So that could be one issue. Because if I was Catholic, or this show was about a religion I identified with, loved, or my family loved, I'd be super bummed that people not of the faith were leaving with this horrible impression. Like I had some bad thoughts about the Church before, but now I'm bewildered and if I was naive enough you could convince me something Satanic was going on.

Well said, booya83. It's quite a thinker and quite a dialogue/conversation starter even if it takes place within oneself. You simply just cannot walk away from an episode and not think about it.

About Lenny, I don't think he is a hardliner I think he's out to expose the hypocrisy of the church and expose and do away with all the inside politics. A couple of scenes has convinced me of that.

The first being in the first episode when he dreams of his first address as Pope. The second being his confessions about not believing in God yet they show him praying in his room with all his might how all he confessed was a lie. Also how he doesn't play or treat certain faithful as he does others example being Cardinal Gutierrez who seems genuine in his faith.

At least I hope Lenny is as deep as I think he is and not a lunatic. lol

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when you say "Religions are supposed to Evolve/Conform with the civilized world" I believe that's exactly what Religion should not do. I believe they hold strong to their beliefs even when, no, especially, when the "Civilised" world opposes said beliefs, otherwise, you have ZERO credibility, You can't spend centuries asking your followers to believe in,and support the ideas and practices , that are the very foundation on which you are built , just to waiver, back pedal, or flip flop,

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If RELIGION didn't EVOLVE, then we wouldn't have the OLD and NEW TESTAMENTS.

And THE FIRST BORN SON would also still be SACRIFICED.

Remember Abraham and ISAAC???

Abraham was about to KILL his SON because that's what the OLD BELIEF dictates be done.

Surely you don't think we should also go back to that kind of a practice again???

The way LENNY'S going he also might suggest or require that it be reinstated again.

Hopefully that's also the point where those who follow him will DRAW the LINE and just say NO to him.

I don't think it ever said that you have to sacrifice any humans as a rule, I think the people did so because they believed it appeased God. Obviously Christianity did not exist during the Old Testament either. So your point is more that humanity has evolved , which I agree with. But the steadfast rules of A Religion should probably remain concrete , or else what's the point.

The OLD TESTY GOD was a NASTY "EYE for an EYE TOOTH FOR A TOOTH" type.

JESUS was a NEW CONVENANT

someone who brought NEW RULES to HUMANITY

where they're instructed to TURN the OTHER CHEEK, and to also give ONE'S CLOAK to the person who takes your COAT away from you.

So apparently even JESUS would also disagree with you and your opinion???



NADA sings for THE YOUNG POPE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isgydm69YLE

PRIME MINISTER of GREENLAND meets THE POPE and gives him the NADA recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_vhwZZjgac

And THE POPE also says maybe GOD is UNDER the ICE

which is also MELTING thanks to MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE.

And didn't LENNY also say that if you LOVE GOD that also doesn't mean that he needs to LOVE YOU back again???

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Not a villain? How about the fact that he hates homosexuals? A litmus test for sexual proclivities of every priest? Or that he will absolutely not tolerate any woman who has an abortion? How about he wants no toleration for anyone who dissents? There is no love or compassion in his words - only hatred and intolerance. He mocks and despises almost everyone he comes across. He makes the confessional priest tell him the confessions of the others so that he can basically blackmail them into total obedience and compliance. He threatens the prime minister of Italy by warning that he will make his Catholic supporters disappear. (If I were that prime minister, I would have said at the press conference that the pope was a lunatic who was antithetical to basic Catholic values).

You're wrong, O.P. Lenny is a "villain" by any definition of that word.

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Bang on the money.


People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs

Three words: Whore. Of. Babylon.

That's a lot to chew on.. I started this thread, thinking i could argue either side convincingly but it's not that easy, this show does a great job of, giving you this impression of the pope, and letting you process the information. that's why I thought it was so interesting these mainstream media sites, declared him a villain so early. As a ' strayed' catholic I could definitely argue both points of view

Great thread, jcg-60932 and thanks for starting. It is interesting to read the mainstream reviews after each of the episodes. Not a lot of thought put into most of them so many are NOT inviting people to the banquet so to speak. But as someone mentioned in an earlier post this week our culture is not attuned to thinking much beyond the immediate or what they learn in 140 characters.

I have seen a number of reviews that claim that 47 years old is NOT young!! And that Jude Law is over 40 but looks great for his age. Took a lot of brain cells to come up with that for the readership! Were people thinking the young Pope was going to be 21? How many years does it take to become a priest, then a bishop, a cardinal? Lenny has lived most of his life sequestered from the outside world. He is untainted almost, he knows mostly what he's learned in an orphanage and a seminary. His education coming from books and theology study. He is 'young' in a way that doesn't count years. But he is also shrewd in many ways.

After 8 episodes I have come to the conclusion that he is NOT a villain. If a season 2, he could go either way though. And that remains to be seen. I hope they keep Jude Law on as the character of Lenny if and when it goes ahead.

Edited to add: Sadly and predictably so, it won't be until this series starts getting award nominations recognition that the viewership will increase and mainstream media actually start giving it a chance. Why is it that most people cannot discern quality entertainment for themselves and not rely on being spoon fed? This series cannot be appreciated on the focus of one world issue alone but on the whole. It's disappointing that people cheat themselves by always having such a narrow and limited focus. The same as Pope Pius XIII needs to stop doing to make his papacy work and make a real difference.

"Absence is presence". - Pius XIII (Lenny Belardo)

Thanks a lot blufee, when I started it, ,I was kind of thinking that mainstream media had a problem with Christianity or something, with how quick they were to paint him as a Villain, but it's actually worst than that I think.. they don't even pay attention to the shows they review anymore, all the need is the words Pope and Supervillain in the headline to get clicks.

So true that they don't pay attention to the shows they review anymore. Nor do they do any fact checking. Recently there was an article that criticized the writers of the series that the imposter parents of Lenny were stopped at immigration as told my Sister Mary. The article went on to say how that made no sense as the parents were already in Italy. The writer did not even consider that since the Vatican is a country of its own that it has its own immigration process to pass. You cannot get into the Vatican unless you provide your passport and go through all the screening. They so embarrass themselves with unverified statements like that. Then again that seems to be of little importance these days.



"Absence is presence". - Pius XIII (Lenny Belardo)

He absolutely is a villain. He's a power-crazed megalomaniac who somehow found himself in a position of unbelievable power.

It reminds me of a certain newly elected world leader, except Lenny isn't a complete imbecile.



Never trust a black man named "Chip."

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He absolutely is a villain. He's a power-crazed megalomaniac who somehow found himself in a position of unbelievable power.

It reminds me of a certain newly elected world leader, except Lenny isn't a complete imbecile.

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EMOTIONALLY SPEAKING LENNY is also still A CHILD.

That's why he's ACTING OUT now as if he were still a CHILD.

Because he's PISSED about the way he was chosen to be the PUPPET of the other CARDINALS,

and he's also ANGRY that his PARENTS ABANDONED HIM.

But what's interesting is how we've also had HINTS that his MOTHER DIED and DID NOT ABANDON him the way that he assumes she did.

Because he also claims to have MEMORIES of her at AGE 8, when he also claims to have been ADOPTED by the VATICAN at AGE 7.

And in the MEMORY where he's suppose to be AGE 8, we also see his MOTHER having the SAME kind of BREATHING PROBLEM as the other WOMAN had in AFRICA after she drinks the bottle of water.

So there's also a connection of some kind between the way his MOTHER DIES with the way the other woman died.

When one fights for breath like that it could also be caused by an ASTHMA attack.

So his mother may also have DIED and not even have ABANDONED HIM, which would also mean he's ACTING OUT over something that also NEVER really even happened the way he thinks it did.