Star Trek : The death penalty - General order 4 or 7???

I am humbled!! I used to think that I was one of the most knowledgeable person on Star Trek TOS, but I just saw something that I had never seen or noticed.

Now, I know that several of you trekkers, have seen this, but I have watched each episode of this show hundreds (no, I am not exaggerating) of times over the past 40 + years and I had never noticed that in the Menagerie the general order that was cited for the death penalty was #7, while in Turnabout Intruder it was cited as being #4.

Of course, Chekov, who was the person who mentioned it being #4 may have misspoken and was thinking of Talos IV (4) and mixed them up.

I know that someone who was the "keeper of the book", the book that has all of pertinent information to prevent things like this would happen, really messed up on this one!

Now, go ahead, in the limited time we have to post on this board, tell me that you had noticed it long ago and that you are actually the most knowledgeable person on Star Trek. "I am laughing at your superior intellect".

What bothered me was that in however many years they'd been traveling in space, by the time of The Cage they were only up to #7?

I would think General Order 24 would count as a death penalty, too.

By the time "Turnabout Intruder" was produced, basically everyone who knew or cared about series continuity was gone.


"A voice from behind me reminds me. Spread out your wings you are an angel."

General order 24 was mentioned in the first season episode "A Taste of Armageddon".

---

SCOTT [OC]: This is the USS Enterprise.
KIRK: Scotty, General Order Twenty Four. Two hours! In two hours!
ANAN: Enterprise, this is Anan Seven, First Councilman of the High Council of Eminiar.

[Bridge]

ANAN [OC]: We hold your Captain, his party, your Ambassador and his party prisoners.

[Council Room]

ANAN: Unless you immediately start transportation of all personnel aboard your ship to the surface, the hostages will be killed. You have thirty minutes. I mean it, Captain.
KIRK: All that it means is that I won't be around for the destruction. You heard me give General Order Twenty Four. That means in two hours the Enterprise will destroy Eminiar Seven.

---

---

KIRK: Kirk to Enterprise. Scotty?
SCOTT [OC]: Scott here, Captain.
KIRK: Cancel implementation of General Order Twenty Four. Alert transporter room. We're ready to beam up.

---

So logically they should already have had the first 24 or more general orders by the first season. General Order Four and General Order Seven should already be in effect by the first season. But of course various general orders could be rearranged, rewritten, renumbered, abolished, or enacted between the first and third seasons.

In the first season episode "Menagerie, Part I":

---

IRK: (reading) For eyes of Starfleet Command only.
MENDEZ: Oh, I'm certifying I ordered you to read it. Know anything at all about this planet?
KIRK: What every ship Captain knows. General Order 7, no vessel under any condition, emergency or otherwise, is to visit Talos Four.
MENDEZ: And to do so is the only death penalty left on our books. Only Fleet Command knows why. Not even this file explains that. (unlocks the magnetic strip) But it does name the only Earth ship that ever visited the planet.

---

Kirk may or may not have been quoting General Order 7 exactly. But the conversation gives the impression that the death penalty is not part of General Order 7 but there is a separate decree mandating the death penalty for violating General Order 7.

And in the third season episode "Turnabout Intruder":

---

KIRK: Enough to convict you of conspiracy with mutineers. And you're so charged. The sentence, death. Mister Lemli.
CHEKOV: Starfleet expressly forbids the death penalty.
KIRK: All my senior officers turning against me?
SULU: The death penalty is forbidden. There's only one exception.
CHEKOV: General Order Four. It has not been violated by any officer on the Enterprise.
KIRK: I am responsible. The execution will be immediate. Go to your posts. Go to your posts.

---

General Order Four is not quoted but obviously does not deal with mutiny or refusal to obey orders. Possibly it is General Order Seven renumbered for some reason, Possibly Chekov forgot the number and it is actually General Order Seven.

And possibly after "Menagerie" Starfleet Command replaced the death penalty for visiting Talos IV with a lesser penalty and decreed the death penalty for violating the totally different General Order Four. Possibly a lot of admirals considered violating General Order Four even worse than violating General Order Seven.

I have often wondered if things had changed after the Talosians invited Pike to live out the remainder of his life there. Before, there was no contact with them because of the power that the Talosians had and how dangerous it would have been for anyone to go there. Maybe they thought that Pike would be able to be a mediator to "normalize" relations with them so there could be and was contact afterwards.

It is just strange that, with all of the worlds that they visited that seemed to be at least as dangerous and a few even more so, would keep Earth from trying to establish contact with them.

That seemed to be part of the point: is anything really more dangerous than the Talosian type thing? At least up to that point.

Is this why Cheron and "the Southern" region of space is never really explored? In Kirk's time.

The Talosians couldn't have been all that bad. At the point of decline their civilization is at or heading, they could easily consider themselves justified in an all out subliminal psychic invasion!

The thing is is that in the Star Trek universe everyone is immortal and cannot die. A death penalty would be impossible. That's why there should be no dreaded "red shirt curse". If a landing party beamed down to a planet, and some poor red shirt got killed, all Kirk would have to do is call the Enterprise and tell them to beam Crewman Jones back down. The "new" Crewman Jones would see the old old Jones lying dead on the ground, ask what happened, and go on from there. Because everyone in Star Trek is a glorified computer file there is always a backup. (This would also mean Capt. Pike wouldn't have to spend the rest of his life confined to his wheel chair).

Of course adhering to this reality would have taken out much of the drama so they had to leave it in. But it's more likely this simply never occurred to them.



So long everybody, it's been nice. I really didn't care for the fish, though.

"General Order 7" and "General Order 4" are not referring to the punishment, but the crimes. #7 was talking about contact with Talos IV. We aren't made aware of the crime for #4, just that violating #4 brought the death penalty. It seems that by the time of "Turnabout Intruder," #7 was repealed.