Poldark : Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

"Poldark," "The Forsyte Saga," "Wolf Hall," etc. etc. Which British series (by way of PBS Masterpiece) do American viewers consider the worst you can show to a bride to be?

I'd like Simon Pegg to do a comical tortured British marriage series. He and Nick Frost could vie for Julia Deakin's hand.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Wolf Hall. No contest.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Well, since I've only seen Poldark and The Forsyte Saga, I have to say The Forsyte Saga, a series that left me depressed and annoyed I'd spent so much time watching it.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I posted the question because one of the first PBS Masterpiece programs I ever watched was "Jude the Obscure," which had U.S. television's first nude scene. If you think "The Forsyte Saga" is depressing...

Wait a minute, I just realized there are no more Masterpiece "Classics." Thank God.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I don't recall Jude the Obscure. Sounds like it was a good one to avoid. Actually, I watched I Claudius, too, back in the day, and I thought that was hideously depressing. Those English, they can really bring you some dismal stories. Not on Masterpiece but still a British effort was The Tudors, which I could only watch the first three episodes before I hung it up, and I really wanted to see Henry Cavill in something. But I didn't want to see him that much or that much of him. LOL


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I loved I,Claudius! Far from being depressing, it was brilliantly funny in a black comedy sort of way. One of the very best British productions.



If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

@supergran--

I was a wee young lass when I, Claudius was aired. One black-and-white upstairs t.v. for entire family with rabbit ear antenna. It was in my room, because I was such a Masterpiece Theater addict, but no remote in them-thar dark ages. But I don't think I'd have been old enough even now for that production. Correct me if I'm wrong, supergran, but weren't there lots of bare butts and boobies in that one, too?

Those darn 70's!

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


@supergran--

I was a wee young lass when I, Claudius was aired. One black-and-white upstairs t.v. for entire family with rabbit ear antenna. It was in my room, because I was such a Masterpiece Theater addict, but no remote in them-thar dark ages. But I don't think I'd have been old enough even now for that production. Correct me if I'm wrong, supergran, but weren't there lots of bare butts and boobies in that one, too?

Those darn 70's!

I, Claudius came out at the same time as Poldark. I was about twenty and newly-married. You're right about the bare butts and boobies. The 70s were unique times!





If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Different strokes for different folks. I still can't get over the whole Caligula thing, and it's been 40 years since I saw it.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


The Tudors, which I could only watch the first three episodes before I hung it up, and I really wanted to see Henry Cavill in something. But I didn't want to see him that much or that much of him. LOL


Sweet Jesus, that series was pornographically violent. I could not bear to watch many of the episodes--had to skip the final Season almost in its entirety, it became so unbearable in its violence. I think it unhinged Jonathan Rhys Myers (sp?), I swear. That poor young man seemed to fade from the scene afterward. One of the most stunning scores ever composed, but far far far too violent. Here is a great and hard-to-find compilation of the four seasons' scores: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyd0HfL5leY&index=21&list=FLfg1lRx8Yw97sCthHPNC3rg

"Poldark" is the only Tortured British Marriage series that makes me laugh as often as it makes me depressed. Smiles are so needed by the world, I think.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Totally agree with all of this although, as I said, I only watched the first three episodes, little realizing that was Aidan Turner right there at the beginning. Well, he had a small part and was never seen again. But yeah, I couldn't stand the way people treated each other. Plus, this is half my heritage, and I kept thinking if this is how my ancestors acted, I want no part of them. And I really hate extreme violence and all that incessant sex being shown on the screen, which always looks fake anyway, and I can never get over imagining what the actors are thinking when they're filming it, having been in many theater productions myself (mostly operas and musicals), so this is not a prospect I relish, as Ross would say.

Poldark does have some funny bits, not usually laugh-out-loud funny, but amusing. But I did laugh out loud when Jud, Prudie, and Demelza ended up in a pile on the floor, however. That was hilarious!


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I agree, The Forsyte Saga. I mean I didn't like ANY of the characters in TFS!!!

I was mad when I finished watching that series.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Oh, great! I was wondering if I was the only one who really hated it. I was glad it wasn't a really long series. I doubt I would have gotten through the whole thing if it was.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Speaking of Best Tortured British Marriage, here's a great podcast where Eleanor talks about what she does to Ross after what he did that so hurt their marriage and discusses all the ins and outs of their relationship: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/podcast-book-club/poldark/


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


here's a great podcast where Eleanor talks about what she does to Ross after what he did that so hurt their marriage and discusses all the ins and outs of their relationship


Oh, I'll definitely be listening to that one. It's 6:30 PPT where I live (Pre-"Poldark" Time ), so I will get to the podcast tomorrow evening at the latest. Thanks!

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I don't know why you'd have to wait. It's up already. I changed the link because the one I had up didn't work. This one should take you to all the podcasts about Poldark, and they're all terrific.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Something to listen to on my lunch break. Thanks for posting!

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Actually, I changed the link because the one I had up before didn't work. On this site, you can listen to seven different podcasts. That ought to give you good things to listen to during several lunches. 😋


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Excellent! My week is planned out.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I, Claudius probably wins except of course it took place during ancient Rome, so can it qualify for Best Tortured British Marriage? There were virtually no married characters who truly loved one another who managed to outlive Livia.

Forsyte Saga must be one of the worst depictions of marriage on British television. Irene managed to enjoy some marital bliss in the end. From the perspective of Soames, however

Wolf Hall was grim.

I would say Cranford isn't about a marriage per se but about a lack of marriage or widowhood.

Elizabeth R spent a lot of time explaining why Elizabeth never married. The Six of Wives of Henry VIII may do the trick too.

Happy Valley may definitely scared a bride-to-be, even though it isn't necessarily a show about marriage.

Aristocrats also had some tortured marriages but many happy ones too.

Brideshead Revisited... a bunch of miserable marriages there.

Not to mention Bleak House







Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


Not to mention Bleak House


Oh, haha! I'm ready to sign off for the morning until I read that. I was going to list Bleak House in the OP, but you name me a single Dickens novel that sincerely makes you smile or feel happy. For that matter, name any Victorian [sic] "classic" that doesn't make you want to slit your wrists while hanging yourself and running headlong off of cliffs.

Well, okay, hanging yourself while running headlong off a cliff may be a stretch...

I think it's why Masterpiece no longer has "Classics." People got wise to the fact they're depressing as all hell.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I wouldn't say it is a stretch, as these characters went through a fate worse than death!

Though I would not say it in the way the Chloe Sevigny character in Love and Friendship said, "Oh, it is a fate worse than death. He is sending me back to Connecticut."

I guess the greatest stories of all time are kind of anti-marriage.

Masterpiece Theater selections are indeed depressing but life can be. Bela Tarr is a Hungarian filmmaker who arguably has shown the most depressing conditions in all of cinema. When asked what he wishes to show audiences, he said, "Dignity." Dignity in spite of abject conditions.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


I guess the greatest stories of all time are kind of anti-marriage.



I find, as I get older, that I tolerate films steeped in unhappiness less and less well. Yesterday, trying (oh, Gawd, have I tried) to make a subscription to a well-known streaming service worth the money, I devised a "watchlist" of films. The first I watched starred Eddie Redmayne and Julianne Moore, called "Savage Grace." Ooh, bebe! Was it *ever* about a bad marriage. I started "Mr. Holmes," clearly not about a bad marriage but next on my list. It's about Sherlock Holmes going senile.

For the first time in months, I cried in my dreams.

No more "critically acclaimed" B-S for me. On Rottentomatoes, someone calls dear "Poldark," "underrated." That, it most certainly is.

I like HAPPY. I am no longer fashionable and adore HAPPY.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


I find, as I get older, that I tolerate films steeped in unhappiness less and less well. Yesterday, trying (oh, Gawd, have I tried) to make a subscription to a well-known streaming service worth the money, I devised a "watchlist" of films. The first I watched starred Eddie Redmayne and Julianne Moore, called "Savage Grace." Ooh, bebe! Was it *ever* about a bad marriage. I started "Mr. Holmes," clearly not about a bad marriage but next on my list. It's about Sherlock Holmes going senile.

For the first time in months, I cried in my dreams.

No more "critically acclaimed" B-S for me. On Rottentomatoes, someone calls dear "Poldark," "underrated." That, it most certainly is.

I like HAPPY. I am no longer fashionable and adore HAPPY.


Personally, I don't mind depressing books/movies/shows as long as the quality is good. It doesn't mean that if I'm feeling low, I would choose an arthouse movie to cheer myself up. I would usually wait until I can handle tough to watch, yet artistic works.

In any case... I think Poldark up until Season 2 Episode 10 was quite depressing and demoralizing to watch, so I think you can tolerate some degree of unhappiness If I didn't know that Winston Graham had more cheerful plans for Ross, Demelza, Dwight, etc. I would probably have given up.

I also think depressing movies are harder to watch as we get older because experience tells us that they are actually quite painfully realistic.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Season two wasn't relentlessly depressing, however. It had some great moments and some hilarious ones, too. I think they did a good job creating a balance although generally there were a lot of problems to solve and bad people to deal with, that's for sure.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Hello, Leo and Ladies!

Just catching up with threads i meant to address and had become caught up in real life. Drat! I love real life, yet often want an extra day just for reel life and nothing but reels! Especially when all are of a particular theme or genre. All science fiction, all spies, all regency (give or take four or five decades), all WWI (pre, during, or the first decade after), anything about painters, etc.

So, miserable marriages created by the Brontës' and similar writers (excluding Miss Austen), I want to suggest "The Tenant of Wildfell Hall" as a genuine dichotomy. It begins with what appears to be a love match for Helen (although she is warned by her aunt) with a hot young man, Arthur Huntingdon, - dressed by Savile Row and very handsome - who courts her winningly.

After their first an only child is born, Arthur become exceedingly jealous of his son, perverse with Helen, debauched and mean in general. He was so bad that George would have been offended, though he might have sucked up his displeasure due to Arthur's bloodline.

This novel was so scandalous that Anne Brontës had it published under a man's name. It is considered one of the first feminist novels printed, but significantly different that what we believe "feminist" means.

It is about a woman who utterly loves her husband, prays constantly for his redemption, and then leaves after he has raped her during a party, yet her reason is primarily to protect her son from being ruined by his father. Even then, through her hurt and anger, she still prays for her husband with her actions demonstrating her firm decision to not be a victim. It was illegal for a married woman to behave like this and if found, could be sent to prison.

She returns to her home of origin,which is unknown to Arthur. She is treated poorly by most of the narrow minded people in the area, and is admired by one of the leading farmers, Gilbert Markham, another charming young man even thought he has never heard of Savile Row. He grows to love her and one day she gives him her diary to read; he wants to marry her, yet her journey has been raw (in current language) and is extremely hard to digest emotionally,

Throughout the story in which Helen becomes stronger, learning how to deal with neighbors, some who admire her and more who gossip. She meets heartbreaking adversity with courage,and she returns to nurse her broken and diseased husband. Modern women often have a challenge with understanding or reconciling this compassion and some believe that part of it could be her revenge on him. Is it coals of fire on his head?

She is kind and chooses not to allow anger to dominate her; she has found peace in her life. Gilbert follows her to this huge old mansion and wants to know her plans. Does she even know them at that point?
There is nothing easy in marriage; Helen is still legally a wife, and is still proving to herself who she has become. Does it even matter what other think? She is wise enough to not make assumptions about what will happen or how she will feel, yet she is now certain that she does not need fear or anger to handle it.

The actors are Tara Fitzgerald, Rupert Graves as Arthur, and Toby Stevens as Gilbert. I did not expect such an engrossingly awful portrayal from Rupert as he gave to the story. He was quite terrifying and totally disgusting, Bravo, Rupert!! All three were excellent and the drama was tense near until the end, which was not certain until it happened. This is a wonderful film, yet it is not escapist entertainment!

"The Tenant of Wildfell Hall" is my second most favorite Brontës' novel (yes, Jane Eyre is 1st!). It is an amazing, powerful, and enlightening journey of the Heroine. Considering it was written in 1858, Anne creates Helen's character as a real woman who grows from naivety and poor knowledge through her experiences, some horrifying, to strength, wisdom, and genuine compassion.

Living now in a time when women often freely cast harsh, mean-spirited opinions on other women face-to-face or on the Internet, one can imagine the reaction to this book in the late 1850s and for the next decade, at least.

Where did Anne Brontës gain her inspiration for this book?!.

[Cheers]



A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Americans have our share of depressing literature, lol. To this day, I resist reading any of the Great Southern Authors: Fitzgerald, Faulkner, O'Connor, etc. I was tortured enough at Uni.

We have our own depressing Victorians, too.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

How about Tennesee Williams? You want depressing? My opera company did A Streetcar Named Desire a couple of years ago, but somehow I didn't find it depressing even though it basically was. I think the music (Andre Previn) helped.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Yes, Williams is another noteworthy example of Southern American depressing lit The Glass Menagerie makes me cringe.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


How about Tennesee Williams?


Yep-per. Take 'em all and toss 'em. Who ever said that "meaning" is found in depictions of human suffering that has no end? Lord David Cecil has a stunningly pithy quote about Thomas Hardy (in my opinion, a sincere dark lord of all literature). I'll have to go to the actual liberry to look it up, but it has to do with the immorality of authors creating characters who (partial paraphrase), "after a lifetime of suffering, come to complete ruin." That Lord was one smart cookie. I'm going to re-watch the "Poldark" season finale this weekend, and then return to anything on Youtube that makes me laugh, or at least doesn't make me cry.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


Americans have our share of depressing literature, lol. To this day, I resist reading any of the Great Southern Authors: Fitzgerald, Faulkner, O'Connor, etc. I was tortured enough at Uni.



AMEN, sister/brother! My grad degree in English lit strangely coincided with the years of greatest depression. Young people are so easily gulled into believing what their elders in academia tell them.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I am a voracious reader, in the recent years mostly non-fiction (history, science, biography, travel/adventure) but I have certainly read my share of high-brow and low-brow fiction.

Several years ago I made a serious attempt to read the Greats/Must Reads/The historical significant or critically acclaimed authors and novels. Before I started each book I did research what it was I was supposed to appreciate. OMG!-after months of determinedly reading through one boring, dense, and depressing novel after another (admittedly there were some really well written and enjoyable novels as well)I thought why am I doing this? It is not that anyone is going to care, I'm not trying to impress anyone with my knowledge of classic lit and I'm certainly not a English or Western Lit major. I don't care that millions love "Love in the Time of Cholera" I didn't, and yes those depressing southern authors were on my list - you can keep them in the South, this Yankee will watch the movie or the play (Paul Newman in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof or The Long Hot Summer, anyone?). The Irish can be pretty depressing as well, just look at the 2015 movie "The Secret Scripture" in which Aidan had a small part, the novel wasn't exactly a laugh fest.

I now read for my pleasure, enjoyment, or to enhance my knowledge. And while the occasional depressing book is appreciated I do not want a steady diet of them.

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My husband gave me Love in the Time of Cholera, and I never could get into it. I keep thinking I should read it because he gave it to me, but it's not happening.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


OMG!-after months of determinedly reading through one boring, dense, and depressing novel after another (admittedly there were some really well written and enjoyable novels as well)I thought why am I doing this? It is not that anyone is going to care, I'm not trying to impress anyone with my knowledge of classic lit and I'm certainly not a English or Western Lit major.


You put it so well and succinctly. It is only when one is young (or desperately wishing others to consider one's self so) that you're susceptible to "must-reads" (or "-see," or "-listen to," or even "-visit"). I recall thinking, when a book with the brashly offensive title Love in the Time of Cholera was published and of course became famous, I will never enter a bookstore again. I don't think I have entered one.

I'm posting to urge everyone to watch or rent if possible, "Mr. Holmes." It is by no means a light-hearted romp. By no means. It is however brilliant, not at all ultimately a downer, and is one of the best-written films I have seen in recent years. If you are one of those odd Cumberbatch women or a fan of Jonny Lee Miller or Robert Downey, be warned that this film has nothing at all to do with handsome well-dressed superheroes. Ian McKellen should have grabbed an Oscar for it.

This has been a most interesting and comforting thread to follow.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Thanks,Hilary!

While Mr. Holmes has no wife for the Tortured Marriage contest, the interaction between his housekeeper and him often rises to that level.

I saw Mr. Holmes at the theater twice then bought the DVD when it was released. It is a work of art, as well as an excellent pastiche, in providing a possible ending for Sherlock's life. It is beautifully filmed, has a very experienced group of actors with Sir Ian in the lead and his pint-sized Watson is very charming with Laura Linney portraying his "Mum", as a worried, semi-harassed housekeeper to perfection. Plus, the music is gorgeous.

The slowing unveiling of Mr. Holmes final and extremely tragic case is a well-written and directed story of misadventure, comprehension, and forgiveness.

Mr. Holmes is currently a free selection for members on Amazon Prime.




A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


While Mr. Holmes has no wife for the Tortured Marriage contest, the interaction between his housekeeper and him often rises to that level.


That was just *one* of the script's surprises. It is indeed a contender in my Tortured British Marriage competition. (I wonder if the Watson-Mary Morstan marriage in the upcoming "Sherlock"--if that series is in fact watchable any longer--will become yet another.)


I saw Mr. Holmes at the theater twice then bought the DVD when it was released. I is a work of are as well as an excellent pastiche providing a possible ending for Sherlock's life.


This film is a work of art, and I'm going to watch it again this weekend. It's a work of art because it succeeds in maintaining one's interest despite its exceedingly slow, even tortuous, rising action and (apparently) disparate subplots. It's a work of art also because, darn, but it deals with so very many gripping topics, so quietly as to be almost a whisper. Finally, it's a work of art because there are so many memorable lines. I paused the film at least three times to take notes of dialogue, such as (paraphrase): "sacrifices most insisted upon are almost always proof of cowardice." (This is a very bad paraphrase of a genius line.) The final scene, when Holmes says to that adorable and talented young boy what he says in regard to writing fiction...that had me in tears.


The slowing unveiling of Mr. Holmes final and extremely tragic case is a well-written and directed story of misadventure, comprehension, and forgiveness.


Serendipity led me while cooking dinner to watch a Youtube video that just popped up on those suggested video lists that always pop up on Youtube. It was British and about loneliness; and I couldn't believe how it echoed the theme of "Mr Holmes." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtCR6P5rsXU&t=2s

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

To go a bit further into Tortured Marriages, how about F.Scott and Zelda? I have watched films of his books more than reading them, but - Oh My Gracious - how many versions of The Great Gatsby do we need?

In my opinion, The Great Depression engendered numerous depressed authors and a few golden writers who understood the value of overcoming it and growing as people who were genuinely alive to living in a new day. I believe that life is a sacred gift and greeting it upon waking with pleasure, regardless of circumstances, will enable us to do far more that if we take each new day as a curse.

Since I have been on both sides of that situation (of having nothing in the bank except for the auto-withdrawals for bills and no current employment vs having a lot), I have decades of experience in the matter. Being thankful either way - to be alive - is better for me emotionally,physically, and promotes positive feelings in many ways.

Verity is the best example of this attitude in Poldark. Her character has the best balanced life, so her moments of distress are borne with grace and her joy is expressed with love and harmony.

Just thinking, Ladies, that this is a depressing subject, so I'm going to check out other threads.





A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)


In my opinion, The Great Depression engendered numerous depressed authors and a few golden writers who understood the value of overcoming it and growing as people who were genuinely alive to living in a new day. I believe that life is a sacred gift and greeting it upon waking with pleasure, regardless of circumstances, will enable us to do far more that if we take each new day as a curse.

Since I have been on both sides of that situation (of having nothing in the bank except for the auto-withdrawals for bills and no current employment vs having a lot), I have decades of experience in the matter. Being thankful either was is better emotionally,physically, and in so many ways. Verity is the best example of this attitude in Poldark. Her character has the best balanced life, so her moments of distress are borne with grace.


We definitely share a perspective here, ACL. Ruby Bentall was Season 1's gem--even more than Demelza. I *adore* this character and actress (and that character-name is just beautiful).

Wouldn't it be absolutely wonderful if we saw a return to the optimistic social realism of the 40's on Masterpiece? "Last Tango in Halifax" should have returned, as it was the modern, egalitarian version of "Downton Abbey" that I'd have followed for years. It was HAPPY. Derek Jacobi's performance and role was so under-rated, and Anne Reid's character was so realistically bitter and cruel. Her Celia never was allowed to ruin the show's happiness because of her husband. How modern and forward-thinking was that?

I have believed since childhood that what we have been taught to revere with words or phrases such as "literature" and "thinking person's" entertainment are so ethically charged--in a way where any book or film with a positive message is automatically dismissed as philistine. "Poldark," along with "Downton Abbey," has uplifted the hearts of millions of viewers. This is significant societally.

No average American during the Great Depression turned to contemporary "literature" to raise their spirits, any more than any of us turned to modern literature to raise our spirits in the 70's or 80's, 90's or the last decade. I don't know when "literature" became synonymous with despair, but I tend to think after Jane Austen. She was the last realistic auteur who could write about profound subjects without descending into despair.

Sadly, modern literature has morphed into the streaming (or cable) limited series, and those very rare series like the ones we've discussed on this thread--"Poldark" so underrated--are swamped by depictions of monstrous violence, of bloodbaths, or of week-after-week celebration of business-world corruption and despair ("Mad Men").

So, if by some slim chance PBS reads these boards, MORE HAPPINESS. Happiness is as real a condition as anything ugly or grim. More happiness, please!

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll put Mr. Holmes on my watch list and get back to you.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I can't believe nobody mentioned Who's Afraid of Viriginia Woolf?

And I can't leave out the Brontes; supergran forgot to mention The Tennant of Wildfell Hall and Wuthering Heights. 😉

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I think the point we're all driving at is that all of "great literature" is almost always depressing and not life-affirming. Young people can--to their peril--flirt with such mind-germs. I no longer can.

I can't see supergran's comment. Perhaps she added me to her group members to avoid? I phrase that as a question; I don't know the answer. If so, this is regrettable.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Three-way relationships can devolve into terrible jealousies in ways that are bizarre and unbelievable. A very well-known husband and wife have been badgered on line (Tumblr) by a third party (of many young women) who are still insanely jealous of Sophie Hunter, Benedict Cumberbatch's wife.

Since she and Ben began dating in mid-2014, these delusional females have struck out against the reality of a significant woman in his life after years as an eligible bachelor. It was appalling, which quickly ramped-up to unbelievable and finally to frightening. They made threats that these obscene publicity stunts were unacceptable and would not be tolerated. They have been followed, threats to Sophie have been made, and they still persist. It is sick.

Details about these antics are found at http://www.xojane.com/issues/cumberbitches-tried-to-get-me-fired

Finally, after two years of this offensive behavior and a second "fake child" on the way, Benedict referred to the matter a couple months ago in a featured article with Vanity Fair. The Daily Mail picked up the part about the obsessed women verbatim and printed it on October 5th this year, .


'That is obsessive and deluded': Benedict Cumberbatch BLASTS 'scary' fans who claim his wife and baby son are a PR stunt" By Ciara Farmer For Mailonline Published at 03:05 EST on 5 October 2016

Scooping iconic roles such as Sherlock Holmes has earned him a legion of loyal devotees, who dub themselves 'Cumberb***hes'. Yet Benedict Cumberbatch does not seem totally enamored with the idea of his huge fan base after he called a selection of his followers 'obsessive and deluded'.

The 40-year-old Brit vented in an interview with Vanity Fair, in which he lashed out at the doubters who even suggested his marriage to Sophie Hunter and their 16-month-old son Christopher are 'PR stunts'. 'It's impossible he belongs to anyone but me. And that's what stalking is. That's what obsessive, deluded, really scary behavior is."



People have said that this is not a three-way relationship, but I remember the day John Lennon was murdered by "a fan" in the doorway of The Dakota on December 8, 1980 in New York City. Benedict is an actor so fond of his fans that he always allows people close to him. Fans are authentically the "third person" whether singular or plural.




A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Wow, I don't understand that kind of obsession, especially for BC. He's kinda weird looking, imho. Perhaps if I watched his show I might get it, but I've never been a big fan of Sherlock Holmes anyway. I do feel for him, however. A lot of people seem to live in a fact-free world these days. Whatever a person believes is what's important and sufficient, not the actual facts. It's pretty sad.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war, ma'am, a waste of good men." (Poldark)

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

Agree with wendyscott. It's a very strange world we live in. Stars or celebrities should be careful what they encourage, either overtly or covertly. Mr. Cumberbatch or his agents and publicists seem to have promoted an image of him as an icy, misogynist, asexual entity. It is pathological but true that certain women are attracted to icy misogynist asexual or homosexual men. Many--not all, but many--of his role choices involve an undertone of inaccessibility not only to sex, but to mere human feeling.

Aiden Turner and other actors who have sought down-to-earth male roles will never be in danger of cultists' initial adoration followed by hatred. It really is a very strange world we live in.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

There is very little to compare, with Soames Forsyte (Eric Porter) and Irene Herron Forsyte (Nyree Dawn Porter), going way, way back, to 1966.

Re: Best Tortured British Marriage Award :)

I think I might have seen that, but it's too long ago to remember. I know Masterpiece Theater had it back then. I did see the more recent version a few years ago and found it hideously depressing, certainly nothing I'd watch twice.


"How was the war, sir?"
"As any war—a waste of good men." (Poldark)
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