Timeless : Insanely stupid show.

Disappointing, since I'm a big fan of Shawn Ryan's other work and a history buff. But it's far lighter and cheesier than I had hoped. This is the most important operation in human history, and yet they throw three people together apparently with no clear command structure in place (disputes frequently arise) who don't seem to grasp the weighty importance of their task or of preserving history (they, mostly Lucy, only hint at it from time to time) and give them little support. It's unserious. Rufus doesn't even try to blend in half the time and makes anachronistic comments as if he couldn't care less. Special forces tend to be self disciplined and mission oriented, and preserving history is part of the group's mission, but Wyatt is strangely unconcerned with this, instead obsessing on the killing Flynn portion of the mission as if he's being driven by blind emotion. While simply having your atoms appear in the past would be enough to alter history, major events are often changed and locals are routinely killed, sometimes by the group itself. Generations of lineal descendants are wiped out. I guess this is viewed as acceptable collateral damage, but if so one wonders why they don't just kill one of Flynn's ancestors (surely there's a villain in there somewhere they could feel good about killing) and prevent all this carnage and disruption from happening. Or maybe just sterilize one of his parents. Or send a young soldier back in time to kill Flynn as a young man. Plot holes like this have soured me on most time travel shows.

Then there's the unimaginative conspiracy theory angle and skewed historical depictions, where the great business entrepreneurs in US history are revealed as members of this villainous group, or at least the white males are. Women, minorities, immigrants, etc. are usually portrayed in a flattering light. The final straw for me was this last episode where Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and J.P. Morgan were branded as Rittenhouse villains and "dicks", as one character put it, all meeting together. The only ideology ascribed to Rittenhouse so far is "control" instead of freedom. Yet innovative capitalists like these men brought to common people things like cars, electric light and power, recorded sound, motion pictures, etc.. The dynamism, creative destruction, and radically improved living standards unleashed by a thriving private sector where individuals can make a difference is the opposite of the type of "control" discussed by the group's Ferengi founder. People favoring control would be entrenched government bureaucrats and socialists seeking to stifle and freeze society in place with regulation, not great free market actors. But bashing businessmen is a long standing Hollywood crutch. Left unexplained are some of Flynn's other targets, unless every Republican from Abraham Lincoln on is supposedly a member of Rittenhouse. Of course the "plot" is really just an excuse to show different historical scenes, but they could put some more effort into it.

The show is pretty PC. One of the three team members is a black guy, and the series frequently goes out of its way to remind everyone about his race with some quip or comment. Because of this much of the show's history coverage so far has been racial whining, something real life American media/entertainment needs far less of rather than even more of at this point in history. From a practical standpoint one wonders why they would cripple the team by sending a black guy back to places and times where he would be more liability than asset at all. The excuse is that he's the pilot, but can they really not train someone else to fly the thing? What if he gets killed? The real reason is they went out of their way to make a third of the time traveling triumvirate black so they could dwell on the racial angles. Lucy lets them dwell on how horribly oppressed women were, and the West Texan Wyatt shows how military personnel, at least macho white men, are supposedly more action than brains.

The best thing I can say about the show is that it does expose viewers to some interesting historical tidbits many of them probably don't know about, like the Holmes house, but that's outweighed by the bad stuff.

The whole thing's too flippant, shallow, and poorly thought out. It's basically bad young adult fiction. I'm done with it.

I stopped reading after you started defending Edison. Edison was a total con artist, stole most of his "inventions" from Nicola Tessa. You seriously didn't know that, or what? Maybe stop complaining about historical revisionism when you are promoting it yourself. And this isn't a "white people bad" thing either, both Edison and Tesla were white, just that Edison was a total dickhead. It's true Ford wasn't, he made sure his workers were paid a decent enough wage that they could afford to buy one of Ford's cars themselves, unlike the greedy scum in similar business who make sure to pay as little as they can get away with (because it really helps the economy when no one can afford anything). I'm not all that up on JP Morgan, but it is true that in general business owners and the like back then we're a lot more fair and less greedy than today. Like the "multiple murderer" such things like that back then weren't that common. But they did exist, and Edison was sure as hell one of them (a rotten crook). Word had it he had a terrible temper as well. Just rotten all around.

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Edison was a total con artist, stole most of his "inventions" from Nicola Tessa. You seriously didn't know that, or what?

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I see you got your historical knowledge from a box of Cracker Jacks. Of course I'm familiar with various criticisms of Edison, true, false, and half true. Though usually attacks along the Tesla line are presented with more knowledge and nuance than yours.

Edison accumulated over 1,000 US patents over more than six decades. Tesla only worked for him for six months. Edison had already been famous for his biggest accomplishments like the phonograph and practical light bulb for years before Tesla even came to the US. His early motion picture kinetoscope system, the other thing I specifically mentioned above, was developed years later and had nothing to do Tesla either. Which of his other 1,000 plus inventions are you claiming really belong to Tesla, lol? Far from stealing, Edison opposed Tesla's primary contribution, AC current, and Tesla won out on that anyway. Meanwhile Edison won out on the breadth and impact of his total work. Based on the success of his early inventions Edison eventually came to employ lots of researchers. In fact his development of the modern industrial research lab was a great invention in and of itself. Here's an article that might clear up some of your misunderstanding.

http://edison.rutgers.edu/tesla.htm

Edison wasn't perfect (no one is), but the guy was one of the most important inventors in human history and generally a good man. I think it's an unfair warping of history to dismiss him as "a total dickhead" and "a rotten crook". Learn more about him before saying stuff like that.

They didn?t even have Cracker Jacks before the first World's Fair! So obvious I couldn't have gotten my history knowledge from a Cracker Jack box! Shows just how much you know!

And I might have been wrong about Tesla and Edison, I'll admit that. Maybe. But turns out I was wrong about Ford also, we both were. He was a terrible racist antisemite. Everyone thought that what we now call the automobile was for transportation, but that's not what Ford created it for originally. It was originally invented as a Jew flattening machine! Unbelievably disgusting! See for yourself in this clip from the History Channel https://youtu.be/tXyqRxTipN8

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And I might have been wrong about Tesla and Edison, I'll admit that. Maybe. But turns out I was wrong about Ford also, we both were.

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No, nothing I said was wrong. I pointed out that no one is perfect. But with Ford and these other guys the good far outweighs the bad.

http://www.imdb.com/board/15511582/board/thread/265219468?d=265301061#265301061

Nope, Jew hatter, no question. Hitler helped promote the development of computer, missile, jet and overall military technology. So apparently 6 million Jews died for a "overall good thing" according to a brain dead fascist like you.

I was just joking before, but not I see you are an extremist nutjob, so please do explain how 6 million murdered people is overall good, since it must be according to your warped fascist mentality.

Now you're comparing Ford (and probably countless other people) to Adolf Hitler? I think it's safe to say that Hitler's contribution to the world was overwhelmingly negative. Piss off, moron.

Screw you asshat antisemite racist dirtbag. Still waiting for you to explain how Adolf Hitler your idol made the world a better place. You went there troll now own it!

Who would have suspected that you falsely claiming Edison stole most of his inventions from Tesla would be the high point of your moronic drivel?

You should have named this topic thread "insanely stupid topic from an insanely stupid antisemite" and it would have been accurate.

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antisemite

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What have I ever said that's remotely anti-Semitic, you drooling moron?

Promoting a antisemite like Ford or Hitler is being antisemite. Otherwise all those fans of Hitler aren't antisemites either.

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Promoting a antisemite like Ford or Hitler is being antisemite.

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My only comment about Hitler was negative:

Me: Hitler's contribution to the world was overwhelmingly negative.

However you praised Hitler:

You: "Hitler helped promote the development of computer, missile, jet and overall military technology."


Looks like you're the Hitler fan, you projection prone buffoon.

If I remember correctly - Ford was actually an anti-Semite.
To go along with what you said- These historical figures weren't all bad - they were inventors and innovators and may have done some good things- but they weren't saints.

I understand what the OP is saying in the sense that some moments/scenes are far fetched and a little imbalanced, but I also get that it's just entertainment, with a little bit of history throughout- it's not a documentary.

The problem is that if you're focusing more on defining Ford by his views on Jews (he got suckered by some anti-Semitic propaganda) than his impact on mass production, industry, perfecting the practical automobile and bringing it to common people, or even his philanthropic work then you're creating a huge perception skew.


"In average years, Ford gave away about 33 percent of his income. By way of comparison, most people in his tax bracket gave away 5 percent. What Ford himself considered to be the most genuine philanthropy were small gifts to individuals, of which he gave many. Biographer William Greenleaf records impulsive and warm-hearted acts of individual generosity that saw him give away money, food, automobiles, or other articles. While driving through the Massachusetts countryside, for example, Ford came across an elderly couple whose farmhouse had just been destroyed in a storm. He asked a few questions, then reached into his pocket and gave the farmers all the cash he had on him, some $200."


http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/almanac/hall_of_fame/henry_ford

No saint, but a "dick"? Does that honestly sum him up?

I'm just pointing out that he was human.
He had some anti Semitic views.
He also did a lot of good.
As I stated - hopefully this show will encourage people to look into history for themselves and form their own opinions based on more substantial information.
I didn't believe Edison and Ford etc. were dicks just because the show said it.

You are entitled to your opinion. But I disagree, and accept the show for the weekly "romp through time" that it is. Don't need it bogged down by details

Kind of said it in your first line " I had hoped". It was not the show you somehow had thought it was supposed to be, thus you feel it's stupid. It's a fictional show, with the writers going by THEIR story line. Perhaps you'll like the other time travel show coming on Time After Time. Different story line. Maybe watch the movie first(it was very good). But it doesn't mean it will follow all historical facts.

**the whole pc# has been talked about endlessly on this board. There is actually a reason characters are chosen besides to be "pc".

A little more to it than that since others' having their historical worldviews further warped can have negative ripple effects on real life society, but this isn't the worst historical show on tv right now, and you're right that my heightened expectations after watching Ryan's work on The Shield and Chicago Code led to bigger disappointment. I saw the movie Time After Time as a little kid and didn't know there was a series coming out, so thanks for the heads up. Given the movie's lighthearted nature and given that the new series' creator is the guy behind Dawson's Creek and Vampire Diaries, keeping in mind what I just said about young adult fiction above, if I watch that one I won't go in with high expectations.

Very good post, and you are totally right. I love the concept of this show, I love Goran Visnjic, but the unserious and frankly sloppy writing, bad time travel science, as well as the anti-capitalist, SJW slant is starting to bug the hell out of me. I've been defending this show for a while, but the writers have so little imagination, they do so little with the historical material. God what a waste!!!

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Very good post, and you are totally right. I love the concept of this show, I love Goran Visnjic, but the unserious and frankly sloppy writing, bad time travel science, as well as the anti-capitalist, SJW slant is starting to bug the hell out of me. I've been defending this show for a while, but the writers have so little imagination, they do so little with the historical material. God what a waste!!!

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Thanks. I should mention I'm also a sci-fi fan, so triple layered disappointment.

Yea if they just keep out the pesky part of how Black people were, lynched, burned, discriminated against, plotted against,& targeted by white supremacist, this would be a great show! This is a show about this countries history. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it, I know its a burden to watch these horrific acts, just be thankful you dont have to live it.

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the pesky part of how Black people were, lynched, burned, discriminated against, plotted against,& targeted by white supremacist, this would be a great show!

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Actually, I would probably watch the show with glee if any of that was shown on-screen! Sounds awesome. You know, make Rufus go through some '12 years a slave' scenario with the others picking him up years later.

This show, on the other hand, just gives us a bunch of weak-ass liberal garbage like Lucy standing up to a 'sexist' man in 1960 and Rufus being passive-agressive to a Nazi soldier. It is annoying rather than educational, it isn't fun and/or exciting in the least.

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It is annoying rather than educational, it isn't fun and/or exciting in the least.

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Then why keep watching the show?


Hate-watching says more about the viewer than it does about the show.

What does hate-replying say about someone?

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What does hate-replying say about someone?

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That always gets me too, when someone tries to deflect criticism from a show by saying you shouldn't take time to criticize, oblivious to the fact that he's taking time to criticize a mere post he disagrees with. They haven't really thought things through.

Consumer feedback is an important aspect of the free market.

I never said stop watching the show - If anyone is deflecting here it's you and clydeerwin.

If Timeless is such an 'insanely stupid show' than you must be too for still watching it.



Hate-watching says more about the viewer than it does about the show.

Sorry, are you still talking to me?

puredielsel sent me a private message that said "DOUCHE!"
lol, all caps. Says it all.

Wow. He is sending me lots of hate mail in private message now. Crazy.

Time to ignore.

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Time to ignore.

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Oh good, so I get the last word.



Hate-watching says more about the viewer than it does about the show.

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Wow. He is sending me lots of hate mail in private message now. Crazy.

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He sent me one too. Wow.

I get your point - there are moments that make me cringe - but I think overall it's just an entertaining show that will hopefully get people interested in history and lead to them doing their own research.

Just because the show called some historical figures ''dicks' doesn't mean I'm dumb enough to believe they actually were. I also realize that just because some people were amazing inventors, etc. doesn't mean they couldn't have been 'dicks' as well. If I remember correctly, Ford was an anti-Semite.

I love history and knew about H.H. Holmes already so I thought it was fun that they added his character and hotel into the show, even though I found it to be a little cheesy.

It finally lost me when Wyatt was frustated that the TIME MACHINE would take four hours to charge.

it's always a token black guy, I agree it's stupid and annoying

Why not a token Chinese guy? It would make sense with the science and stuff

THIS is a fun and great show. So shut up and read some Demosthenes

Enrique Sanchez

No to the "shut up" part, though I'm all for reading the classics. The show sucks. Learn to use your caps lock button.

I so agree. Can't go one episode without a close up of Rufus acting like he's a victim of crap that happen centuries ago. You weren't oppressed. Enough! They just add it in to racial divide us in 2017. Keep it up. We're sick of it.

Great post. I couldn't have summed it up any better.

I'm sticking with the show until the bitter end, despite that I agree with you about the poor writing.

I wish this series was on HBO, Netflix, FX or AMC. The quality of writing would have been at least a little better,