The Flash : Barry and Iris need more passion

the show makes them act too formal. they need to show some desire and spontaneous passion for each other. make us believe there's an intense attraction there.

IMO they killed any potential passion with the will-they-wont-they / nope-they're-with-other-people-now BS. I'd argue that relationships on the CW superhero shows are potentially their weakest aspect. I wouldn't agree with a single one of the end-game pairings.




if you don't have anything nice to say you're probably a butthole

Diggke - Lyla

but that's after the 'his brother's wife' storyline which IMO was another example of a missed opportunity. and it could have even added more importance to his brother's return IMO as well. I do like he and lyla but I was rooting for he and his brother's wife originally so



if you don't have anything nice to say you're probably a butthole

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they need to show some desire and spontaneous passion for each other. make us believe there's an intense attraction there.

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Huh, never thought I'd see you of all shippers say Barris is unbelievable. Well, better late than never.

They aren't going to go overboard with passion in a show like this. It's supposed to be a lighthearted series for the most part. Now, that KF-Flash kiss was pretty hot, but that was mixed in with humor and danger in that scene. Even when Barry-Iris were getting hot and heavy on the couch, they turned it into a comedy scene when Joe interrupted them. They use any excuse to incorporate humor into the show.

Marielapenn posting the same retarded sh!t on here obviously she needs psychological help bc she's mental.

She's actually a cool poster. Yeah, I'm not a WestAllen shipper like her, but at least she sees the deficiencies in their relationship and objectively wants it to be better rather than blindly loving any crap the writers throw at the viewer like most WestAllen fans on this board.

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They use any excuse to incorporate humor into the show.

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except when they really need it which is when someone's being a mopey turd.



if you don't have anything nice to say you're probably a butthole

Passion is for children who don't understand that there's more to a relationship than just hot sex and make-out scenes. It's an aspect, but it's not the main aspect.

Don't Jdg a Bok by Its Move

Thank You. I love that CW is finally showing love and not infatuation. It's seldom that healthy is reflected in any medium. What Barry said to Iris while trapped in the mirrorthat's an example of how hard but necessary it is to expose your inner most fears but the TRUST he and Iris have allows him to expose those insecurities and trust she will hold them safe and not use them to hurt him. Those are the building blocks to establishing and maintaining a truly loving relationship. Show me those all day long as I've already seen Barry's desire for her and vice versa. I'm sure they will show that again but Barry and Iris are supposed to be a "BIG" love couple.

Yeah, I'll take healthy adult loving relationship over "passion" that is shown on shows like Gossip Girl and Vampire Diaries.

Very good point.

Where are the Asian characters DC CW? #MoreAsians

This is true but the OP also has a point. Even in loving relationships, there's still that honeymoon period when you first get together and you're kind of giddy with affection. They don't have to be all over each other, but they could touch more, hold hands, share secret looks and smaller across the room. They do none of that, they seem completely platonic to me. I've been married for almost 15 years with two kids and my husband and I hold hands more than they do.

Haven't Barry and Iris been doing that? Iris has wrapped her hands around Barry's waist. They've traded kisses since the season began. They've had multiple cheek pecks and hugs. They're not all over each other, but they have shown little displays of affection here and there. Not to forget the full on make out session they had a few episodes back. I won't argue against more though.

Promo for next episode shows that they might be getting an apartment together so there's that. Maybe, with a space of their own, they won't be interrupted as much or surrounded by other people. I would like to see Barry and Iris relaxing and able to focus completely and solely on them.


James 4:8
Easier to say you're right than I'm wrong.

They share those tender moments almost every episode since becoming a couple if you've missed them then rewatch. Barry still doesn't have his own place and when he does I'm sure we will get more of the passion that started on the sofa. At this point I'm not even sure they have sealed the deal and there is no rush. When should they hold hands in star labs?

Not all couples show affection the same way. In prior seasons I noticed that Iris was always touching Barry. I.E. Hands on his shoulders, taking his hands, wiping his mouth, etc. They also do a lot of talking which can be just as intimate as holding hands or secret looks. Not that they're a secret.

Where are the Asian characters DC CW? #MoreAsians

They are step-brother and step-sister, like Greg and Marcia Brady. It's never going to work.

Plenty of other options for Barry.

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they need to show some desire and spontaneous passion for each other. make us believe there's an intense attraction there.

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They should've done a better job with casting Iris, because she has zero chemistry with Grant Gustin. Off camera, they don't hang out either. Not that you have to be friends with your co-stars, but it definitely helps. Barry/Caitlin could've been such a great plotline, especially with her turning cold because of him. Grant and Danielle have incredible chemistry on screen, as well as off screen.

Not a fan of going against canon, but for now that's the best approach. They made the highschool sweetheart the endgame, but there's no chemistry between them, and Iris adds nothing to the team except moping and whinging.

Barry had more chemistry with the Asian reporter, Patty and Felicity. There were similarities there. Barry is very nerdy and smart, not once seen Iris go nerdy for something other than her writing, which is also put on the back burner. All she does is hang out at Star Labs to mother Barry and Wally.


Time of death for Arrow: 11:59

Snowbarry is not going to happen. You get one scene of fanservice a season. Don't get greedy.

Don't Jdg a Bok by Its Move

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They should've done a better job with casting Iris, because she has zero chemistry with Grant Gustin. Off camera, they don't hang out either. Not that you have to be friends with your co-stars, but it definitely helps. Barry/Caitlin could've been such a great plotline, especially with her turning cold because of him. Grant and Danielle have incredible chemistry on screen, as well as off screen.

Not a fan of going against canon, but for now that's the best approach. They made the highschool sweetheart the endgame, but there's no chemistry between them, and Iris adds nothing to the team except moping and whinging.

Barry had more chemistry with the Asian reporter, Patty and Felicity. There were similarities there. Barry is very nerdy and smart, not once seen Iris go nerdy for something other than her writing, which is also put on the back burner. All she does is hang out at Star Labs to mother Barry and Wally.

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Candice is the worst actress in this show. I thought Katie was bad but this is worse than porn. I've seen behind the scenes of the cast hanging out, Grant and Candice aren't seen ever hanging out like he does with Carlos, Danielle, Tom and the other teams from the crossover. Their chemistry is non-existent. The writers are scared to pursue Grant and Danielle together for some reason, maybe they're just taking their time, something the CW rarely is known for.

That was evident since the pilot, yet her 2-3 stans claim there's this invisible chemistry there like they are Jack and Rose on the Titanic.

I miss Linda in a lot of ways. She was a good character that was wasted so Iris can get propped up through dramatic scenes only to have her become reduced to a best friend to said childish character. Malese was hot, and she wasn't an annoying actress. She looked like she brought out the fun in Barry, reminding me of how good Season 1 was. Iris has no purpose, not hard to deduct. Time she dies eventually like she does in the comics.

There are several problems/reasons the writers won't dump this tedious WestAllen romance:

1) They already did this on Arrow abandoning Oliver-Laurel in favor of Olicity, and I see tons of posts complaining about how Olicity ruined Arrow and Felicity going from the most lovable to the most hateable character on THIS thread. I don't even want to imagine how bad it is on the Arrow thread. While I think there are noticeable differences in all of the respective characters, the general similarity of abandoning the canon ship WestAllen in favor of Snowbarry is very apparent.

2) Iris hasn't been given a lot to do on this show thus far, so I think the writers believe that they can make her more relevant and liked simply by amping up her screentime, but most of that screentime feels like pure filler and makes the character seem more in the way than part of the team. Show her at the lab ALL THE TIME, so that makes her relevant and part of the team, even though she does nothing when she's there. But the writers' definition of character relevance seems to be just stick them in StarLabs and go from there. Being in the lab with Barry all the time, they can exploit their romance more, little kisses and hugs and making googly eyes at each other in between the action.

3) The TABOO subject, here it comesRACE! You better believe these writers are totally aware that there are fans (on both sides) who either love that Iris is black, or dislike that Iris is black. And even if they dump WestAllen for the RIGHT reasons, they sure as hell are in fear of Iris/WA fans screaming racism for dumping an interracial romance for an intra-racial one. It doesn't matter that they do it for the simple reason that Barry and Caitlin have more chemistry, a huge proportion of fans will believe it's because Iris is black and Caitlin is white. A sad truth, but the truth nonetheless. Keeping WA together because a small percentage of biased fans prefer that Iris be white or Barry be paired with a white leading lady is a small price to pay to the detriment of the backlash they'd get for admitting that Iris just really a weak, poorly written and acted character, regardless of her race.

Threads like these crack me up. You all try soooo hard when it comes to breaking up Barry and Iris, why? The amount of effort you pay to them only underlines the fact that for some strange reason, you are threatened by a girl like Iris: smart, outgoing, intelligent, gorgeous, sexy, ambitious, etc etc keep trying though, maybe you'll come up with something legit. Doubtful but, worth a try.

All those attributes you mentioned are on the cutting room floor, because they sure as hell don't translate to the screen.

These people are upset that Barry would have the audacity to be in love with a black woman when there is a perfectly good and willing white woman he could have. White men wanting black woman is nothing new, it's just now we're starting to see her on tv as wife material not mistress.

Where are the Asian characters DC CW? #MoreAsians

1. I think the problem wasn't that the ship sucked, it didn't. Not in the beginning, it just got gradually worse because the writing for Felicity went really Susan Lucci and she had ceased to grow as a character. Arrow turned into a really bad soap opera in general and everyone was affected. Still, Laurel and Oliver being the weaker of the ships doesn't stop being true.

2. The reason why for this is their CINOs obsession. The creators just wanted to put their name on the flash brand and they got too lost in that so they thought they'd mess with tradition and change so much from the origins and force people to accept it because they are the first ones to make it this popular. Which leads me to the show promising they'll deliver on Iris being who she is in the comics and not making good on that promise. Ace reporter? Where?

3. It was racist to change her race for no reason what so ever. Joe's too. To a degree, comic readers disagreed with Wally's race being changed as well, which is where these guys got the idea. They are both white with red hair and green eyes. Their personalities were attached to those looks too. It effected sales of the issues and the franchise was too busy trying to "be diverse" with the new 52 instead of being original and creating new characters with cultures to back them up. No reason why they couldn't create a biracial speedster with a new name and background. They are doing the same thing with Iris. It's to appease black people as a whole and sjws who don't even read comics. They need someone who looks like them, doesn't matter if they are messing with tradition.

The stans have been doing that since the beginning of the show. I say the show deserves any hate they get. I don't see it changing either way.

1. Right, I was saying that it got worse, not that it was always bad, so fans don't want that to happen to this show, but guess what? Season 3 is subpar for the most part and it has NOTHING to do with Snowbarry. The character most fans are complaining about right now is Cisco. They could put Barry-Caitlin together right now, but that doesn't have to be the reason the show deteriorates, just coincidence. Of course, certain fans are going to disagree, but Killer Frost was, for me, easily the best episode of the season with some strong acting from Panabaker, Gustin, and Valdez. It showed that those young actors are more than typical CW teen idol actors, that they have dramatic weight to them. The best episode of the season so far was Barry-Caitlin heavy. Small sample size, I know, and of course everyone won't agree, but it was a top notch episode in my opinion.

2. Iris certainly doesn't really report, not that I've seen. Even when they show her at her job, it's always about defending The Flash and she gets nothing of her own assignments.

3. Eh, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, especially because I love the character of Joe West on this show. Changing the race isn't, nor should it be, the problem. The problem is how the character translates onscreen and from the very beginning, I was sold on Joe West due to Jesse L. Martin's vigorous, convincing, humorous performance. He has great chemistry with Gustin, Cavanagh, and Valdez and the ONE positive I can say about the character Iris is that her relationship with Joe is cool. Actually, I also liked Iris and Eddie as a couple. Ironically, she felt more relevant as a character with Eddie than she has with Barry. I've always thought Patton was more convincing showing Iris' love for Eddie than for Barry. I think she tries way too hard with Gustin. It's a huge reason I feel the character to be disingenuous whenever the writers try to pull this epic, destiny crap with WestAllen at their whim.

On the note of selling me from the Pilot, I was incredibly skeptical of Grant Gustin being the Flash because I knew the actor from Glee where he played a Grade-A *beep* character Sebastian. I didn't think he could pull off being a pure hero, but Gustin has made me completely forget he was even on that show. He's incredibly good as Barry Allen.

Agree with you. I like the race-bent Joe and I love Iris/Joe. I also really liked Iris's relationship with Eddie - it was mature and sexy - and by comparison, it makes her relationship with Barry seem kind of infantile? They really love to infantilize some of these characters, like Barry and Supergirl.

They just don't have any chemistry. That's the bottom line. And Iris is terribly written and they've given her NO storyline that doesn't revolve around men. They should have jus made her a metahuman or something, just to give her relevance. Otherwise, you have to wonder why she has so much free time to hang around the lab all day doing nothing. It's weird? Give the girl a purpose or get rid of the character.

Maybe that's one reason there are a lot of Barry-Kara shippers. Crossover chemistry is nice and a couple can click right away, but that's much different from having to develop them over the course of a series where they interact all the time. The maturity thing is interesting because I think Caitlin is mature and would be interesting to see if Barry would lose some of his goofiness if paired with her. But about the Iris-metahuman thing, I swear I think that's going to happen, but it may be only temporary. They pulled this on Smallville with Lana Lang with dubious results. It would probably make things worse because it would look like a stunt to make her character relevant instead of doing it the hard way and writing her better.

While I'm not sure I like the idea of Barry and Caitlin hooking up, I do agree that out of all off Barry's girlfriends he and Iris have the least amount of chemistry. Personally Patty was my favorite, but Linda was cool too.

What the hell is a Stiles?

Barry-Caitlin, within the context the characters on the show itself, would be awkward as hell! I can only imagine how Cisco would react to it, not that he'd be jealous per se, I would see him acting like Joe did when he walked in on Barry and Iris making out on his couch. And this would put to rest any hopes of fans of Iris and Caitlin being besties at some point.

Iris was trying, I mean did you see her outfit. Maybe a side effect of Barry's superspeed is that his arousal cycle is super-quick.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bcga.gif

I find them a very boring couple. Not as cringey as Felicity and Oliver. Just . dull.


Hot guys + dark subject matter + plenty of violence = watchable television.

Most couples going about their life would appear to be dull. Yes, Barry and Iris will be married for years and have lots of kids and grandkids while Oliver will end up alone even though he's had more "hot" sex than most of the Arrowverse combined.


The bodice-ripping clothes thrown everywhere let me do you against the wall is soft porn wish fulfillment. Which is why Game of Thrones is so popular.

Where are the Asian characters DC CW? #MoreAsians

Yeah it's not like with 7.15 Billion people on the planet, people need inducement or encouragement or how-to demonstrations for this stuff.

That being saidIris is trying. She was dressed very sexy for this cross over episode. She was also dressed very sexily for the Wally street/drag racing scene last season. There's an odd juxtaposition of HOT Iris next to her brother Wally.

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Yeah it's not like with 7.15 Billion people on the planet, people need inducement or encouragement or how-to demonstrations for this stuff.

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The same people that have access to a pornocopia of XXX material on the internet still complain that Melissa Benoist's costume is not revealing enough. Heck, there are topless pictures of Benoist and a picture of her on a boat with no pants on online and it's still not enough.

Where are the Asian characters DC CW? #MoreAsians

Maybe that's the problem perhaps you are reading it all wrong maybe they are trying to show you it goes beyond passion. But I'll play devils adocate just because it is my favorite role to play. What exactly is your defintion of passion? I thought one of their most passionate moments was when Iris found out he was the Flash and they had confrontation. Is that passion to you or is it merely expressed as a person jumping the other person bones. Let me give another passionate moment for me that is more recent when she defended Barry when she found out Julian forced Barry to quit his CSI job. Take a look at Barrys face when she is defending him. Imagine if you are a man and your watching your girlfriends fiery defense of you think about the expression that would be on your face and watch Barry again. You have to better at reading cues on a show. Passion even sexual ones is not always going to be obvious.

Slow clap and a bow. So well said. Since I know they are watching TF I have to wonder at their ability to comprehend what's on the screen. There is so much subtlety between these two. All the characters really. Then I saw the 'let's ship Barry/Caitlin thread and I knew it was a combination of ignorance hate and selective stupidity. I mean seriously how do you watch a scene where Caitlin confronts Barry about his life being Iris and then start a thread saying you felt the love between them. SMDH. Then then there was the cosigning. Yep, selective stupidity to the point it's revealing that at it's coreit's not about Caitlin chemistry or writing. Back on topic.

The scene where Barry realizes he's erased Iris' Byline. That's a passionate scene and she's not in the room. Grant played it so well. Anyone who missed the fact that even in the midst of all that was taking place Barry's connection to Iris is so much a part of who he is that he is rocked to his core at the thought that he's done something to change their destiny. That's a man who loves his woman. The passion and desire that transcends JUST sex is palpable between these two and seeded into every episode. Has been from the beginning if you are actually paying attention.

Its not just subtle it is in the words too. In that same scene after Iris got through talking about his dedication and commitment to finding justice for people. She said imploringly I might add this lab is your life. And his response "You're my life." How exactly is that not passion. Then after he said that the expression on her face talk about wanting to jump someone's bones. Of course Joe was in the scene so there was bit of awkward silence so he had to throw everyone else he knew in the mix. I'm surprise he didn't throw in HR into the mix too but it was obvious it was all about her. And if Joe wasn't in that scene it would have a different ending. I don't understand how the claim can be made that they don't have passion. Or perhaps the Original poster just wanted to see more of it but its there.

there's different ways of interpreting passion of course, but i'm talking about physical attraction and sexual desire. that's what i meant.

I did say there was overt passion and it will be shown again BUT we have been conditioned to believe passion equals torrid hot sex and that is passion. BUT there is also the quiet deep emotional side of passion and that is rarely shown. It's not as common because the soul shattering type is born of trust, commitment and emotional connection and THAT needs time to build and it's why it stands the test of time. Amazingly, this show is doing it.

Despite all the crying about writing, the writers are showing us what BIG love is. They are taking the time to have Barry and Iris reveal their vulnerabilities to each other, to build trust. That scene where Iris confesses that she doesn't really feel apart of team flash was as emotionally raw as his mirror scene because they are both exposing their insecurities to the other. This relationship is being written exceedingly well IMO as it's being written to endure the test of time. After all they are giving us in terms of emotional connection at some point they better let us see Barry leaving Iris so shattered/satisfied that she is either in tears or unconscious. Some may not understand that if they haven't experienced either but it is real. TRUST.