Predator 2 : Failure due to casting of Glover
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Dave Newport said...Yup! Sure did. Now don't forget…You still haven’t told me why Predator 2 failed, apart from the main reason I’ve already stated in casting Glover as lead.After all this time, you still haven't gotten the message I'm completely unconcerned with such meaningless bean counter pursuits.You're brain dead.
Your ass was born wrong.Did you think up that lame comeback all by yourself?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
ToastedCheese said... Yup! Sure did. Now don't forget…TC, the defeated whiny bean counter shows his anger. ^
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Dave Newport said... TC, the defeated whiny bean counter shows his anger. ^
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
It's very undignified to suggest you're a bipolar clown.
Why would you do such a thing?
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Why would you do such a thing?
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Dave Newport said... It's very undignified to suggest you're a bipolar clown.Why won’t you address your agro bipolar issues? Take accountability for yourself, for once in your over-wrought and ridiculous life.
Why would you do such a thing?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
ToastedCheese said... Why won’t you address your agro bipolar issues? Take accountability for yourself, for once in your over-wrought and ridiculous life.You didn't get the message when I answered you a few posts above, so try to pay attention this time……….
Bizarre. Speculation is all you do.
And you're wrong every time.
Let's see….so far, you've incorrectly guessed that I'm a woke angry black man with excessive alcohol or depressant consumption.
With a track record that bad, people are going to have fun guessing what your problem is.
Most should start with assuming you're definitely disoriented and toxic.
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Dave Newport said... You didn't get the message when I answered you a few posts above, so try to pay attention this time……….
Bizarre. Speculation is all you do.
And you're wrong every time.
Let's see….so far, you've incorrectly guessed that I'm a woke angry black man with excessive alcohol or depressant consumption.
With a track record that bad, people are going to have fun guessing what your problem is.
Most should start with assuming you're definitely disoriented and toxic.
Most should start with assuming you're definitely disoriented and toxic.
Pot kettle, sunshine!Now don't forget….
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
ToastedCheese said...TC, the defeated whiny bean counter shows his anger. ^Most should start with assuming you're definitely disoriented and toxic.
Now don't forget….
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Dave Newport said... TC, the defeated whiny bean counter shows his anger. ^
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
This seems like the same shit you said above to which I cleared up.
When you say decent, it undermines how good it is and it is good. There's a lot of decent sequels out there that dont come close to measuring up to this.
Also your underestimating Glover whos a real actor to Arnie who is really a bodybuilder playing actor. Arnie wasnt a big box office draw when he first started. He made himself that way. A lot through sheer publicity. Some people hate him, some people like him. A lot watch him. Not all for acting purposes. You cant really say he's one of the best actors of all-time. Glover has done good for himself doing all kinds of roles and doing all kinds of good deeds. Had they casted like I said another big star the film mightve not worked as it did. Since it was smaller budget and the storyline was different. They also couldnt go with the same Actor of the 1st since they wouldve been lame and redundant.
I've already made clear, that the film is about Predator, not a star so there is no need to carry anything except for the Predator. The fact that Arnold did the first was a pseudo-accident that really like I already said, wasnt his type of film where it's a full blown arnie film. It's more like a Predator film that Arnie happens to be in it. He isnt the full film nor does he carry as much as you'd like to think. It has an awesome cast with a mysterious jungle killer. If he remove the cast and the Predator, do we really have a film?
I also dont recall his name being a big part of the promotion rather than it being a sequel. I do get that people wanted to see Arnold again, like for instance Terminator 2. But in Terminator, He is Terminator, and it makes a bit more sense but in this one. He isnt Predator and he wasnt even the first casted choice. So what? Have a bigger brain cell!
Without strife, your victory has no meaning.
Without strife, you do not advance.
Without strife, there is only stagnation.
When you say decent, it undermines how good it is and it is good. There's a lot of decent sequels out there that dont come close to measuring up to this.
Also your underestimating Glover whos a real actor to Arnie who is really a bodybuilder playing actor. Arnie wasnt a big box office draw when he first started. He made himself that way. A lot through sheer publicity. Some people hate him, some people like him. A lot watch him. Not all for acting purposes. You cant really say he's one of the best actors of all-time. Glover has done good for himself doing all kinds of roles and doing all kinds of good deeds. Had they casted like I said another big star the film mightve not worked as it did. Since it was smaller budget and the storyline was different. They also couldnt go with the same Actor of the 1st since they wouldve been lame and redundant.
I've already made clear, that the film is about Predator, not a star so there is no need to carry anything except for the Predator. The fact that Arnold did the first was a pseudo-accident that really like I already said, wasnt his type of film where it's a full blown arnie film. It's more like a Predator film that Arnie happens to be in it. He isnt the full film nor does he carry as much as you'd like to think. It has an awesome cast with a mysterious jungle killer. If he remove the cast and the Predator, do we really have a film?
I also dont recall his name being a big part of the promotion rather than it being a sequel. I do get that people wanted to see Arnold again, like for instance Terminator 2. But in Terminator, He is Terminator, and it makes a bit more sense but in this one. He isnt Predator and he wasnt even the first casted choice. So what? Have a bigger brain cell!
Without strife, your victory has no meaning.
Without strife, you do not advance.
Without strife, there is only stagnation.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Pffttt! You couldn't clear up your own bowel movements. Are you having a tanty? That isn't unusual, because you are just a stupid little git at any rate….
I never said Glover was terrible in the film and I never said the film was a bad sequel either. Glover was just a strange choice and it was an odd choice for the producers to end up wanting to carry a more expensive sequel on the presence of the predator, which in turn DID end up affecting the box office result. They in a sense sabotaged their own film fiscally, unless they didn't care about the box office popularity which I don't believe at all.
It had a bigger budget than the first and the main drawcard for Predator - '87 was Arnie. People went to see the film for him. They would have also gone to see the sequel in droves if he had ended up being cast.
The palaver you have just spewed about Arnie not being popular and building himself up is a moot and redundant point to what has been implied about Predator 2's box office failure. Arnie was a box-office drawcard by the time Predator came out. Glover wasn't and he wasn't by the time the sequel came out.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
I never said Glover was terrible in the film and I never said the film was a bad sequel either. Glover was just a strange choice and it was an odd choice for the producers to end up wanting to carry a more expensive sequel on the presence of the predator, which in turn DID end up affecting the box office result. They in a sense sabotaged their own film fiscally, unless they didn't care about the box office popularity which I don't believe at all.
It had a bigger budget than the first and the main drawcard for Predator - '87 was Arnie. People went to see the film for him. They would have also gone to see the sequel in droves if he had ended up being cast.
The palaver you have just spewed about Arnie not being popular and building himself up is a moot and redundant point to what has been implied about Predator 2's box office failure. Arnie was a box-office drawcard by the time Predator came out. Glover wasn't and he wasn't by the time the sequel came out.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
It’s too bad Arnie couldn’t return like was originally planned. Seeing Harrigan team up with Dutch would have been epic.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
It’s too bad Arnie couldn’t return like was originally planned. Seeing Harrigan team up with Dutch would have been epic.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Glover was great. He brought that Lethal Weapon gravitas to another cop role.
Murtaugh vs Predator. I loved it.
Satan is a little man.
Murtaugh vs Predator. I loved it.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
What really sells it is that it's not just Predator versus some cop, it's Predator versus a guy we've seen can really play an action hero cop already. It's great subtext.
Satan is a little man.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
You better stop speaking rationally or TC is gonna start whining to you about box office next.
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
He brought that Lethal Weapon gravitas to another cop role.He wasn't great though. His presence wasn't unwelcome, it was just underwhelming for a Predator film I find.
Now, he wasn't on big radar at the time, but Wesley Snipes could have sold it better if he was.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
I feel he was great. He nailed that old gruff cop in the midst of a warzone character fantastically. His history with the Lethal Weapon franchise helped sell that to the audience, much like how Arnold's history with Commando and Raw Deal really helped sell him as the leader of an elite squad.
Snipes at the time wouldn't come with any of that in the role. He'd be too young to play the grizzled cop. Heck, he'd've been younger than Bill Paxton, who was the one playing the young upstart detective.
Satan is a little man.
Snipes at the time wouldn't come with any of that in the role. He'd be too young to play the grizzled cop. Heck, he'd've been younger than Bill Paxton, who was the one playing the young upstart detective.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Why did it have to be a grizzled cop though? Glover didn't sell it big enough and that is pretty much the entire point. He wasn't headlined as the start above the title, because he didn't have the star plug to sell it, as the box office ended up proving.
Snipes couldn't have sold it either at the time. A few years later perhaps, but he would have given the film more sass.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Snipes couldn't have sold it either at the time. A few years later perhaps, but he would have given the film more sass.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Why did it have to be a grizzled cop though?You moron. It didn't have to be a grizzled cop.
But that's what made it a better, more enjoyable story!
Yeesh
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Clearly, that's the face of a man admitting defeat.
A humiliating defeat.
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
A humiliating defeat.
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
That's the story they were going with. Grizzled cops had been a staple of the movie industry throughout the 80s. Predator was a hit in the 80s. It was like bringing two different franchises together.
And Glover totally sold it. He had the gravitas and the film history.
Sure, Snipes would give it sass, but the movie already had plenty of it with all the supporting characters.
Satan is a little man.
And Glover totally sold it. He had the gravitas and the film history.
Sure, Snipes would give it sass, but the movie already had plenty of it with all the supporting characters.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
I'm focusing not on what worked, but what didn't! I don't believe Glover should have been carrying this film as lead alone. The support cast were fun, but so were the support in the first. It didn't work magic at the box office, due to not having a hyped up lead.
The cop thing worked for the setting, but not as well as it could or should have. An expensive film, a lot more than the first, and it didn't ignite. Why spend $35mill of late 80's budget value, then throw it away in a miscalculated executive decision?
As already mentioned, Predator 2 has attained low cult status only.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
The cop thing worked for the setting, but not as well as it could or should have. An expensive film, a lot more than the first, and it didn't ignite. Why spend $35mill of late 80's budget value, then throw it away in a miscalculated executive decision?
As already mentioned, Predator 2 has attained low cult status only.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
I believe he totally carried it. He brought what was needed to the role: gravitas. He was the glue that held the support cast together. He was a great lead for the movie.
Predator 2 has also attained cult status as being underappreciated.
Satan is a little man.
Predator 2 has also attained cult status as being underappreciated.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Predator 2 has also attained cult status as being underappreciated.By whom? Fan boys are going to enjoy it, because it is a well made sequel, yet I would say Predators - '10, (which I didn't really like), would get more thumbs up with most.
I never disliked Glover in the film and I recall being quite enthralled in the climatic building chase when I first saw the film. I like the look of it too. I question though, why throw millions away, when the film wasn't a resounding success due to how it ended up being cast. Didn't Fox want another smash hit?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
because it is a well made sequel,
Yep, that's why fans appreciate it.
yet I would say Predators - '10, (which I didn't really like), would get more thumbs up with most.
Maybe. But that doesn't preclude Predator 2 from also being underappreciated. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I question though, why throw millions away, when the film wasn't a resounding success due to how it ended up being cast. Didn't Fox want another smash hit?
There's no evidence Glover is the reason the film didn't do as well as the first. Also, let's not ignore, though it wasn't as big as the first, it did make back nearly double it's budget. Well done, Predator 2.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
There's no evidence Glover is the reason the film didn't do as well as the first. Also, let's not ignore, though it wasn't as big as the first, it did make back nearly double it's budget. Well done, Predator 2.In Nth America, it didn't even make its budget back. NOT well done! It fell shy of around 5mill according to figures. It relied on overseas takings to give it a bit more of a boost, which didn't even double the expensive budget for the time. The film flopped and that cannot be denied.
I worked in the cinema industry when released and heard first hand international distributors were disappointed with the US box office result, anticipating another smash hit. I recall looking at the poster and thinking WTF! This is just a lone predator. Where's Arnie? Where's some big, mean as ass tough guy to beat it?
Glover did well with what he worked with, but not pairing him up with a bigger action star WAS part of the reason the film didn't sell. The action film-going public were over-estimated.
The predator creature was cool enough for the hardcore fans of the first to go and see it. It just didn't allow itself to stretch far enough beyond that. It can only come down to the producers making a bad judgement call in allowing Glover to carry the film. They couldn't even headline him.
Hopkins directing career was pretty much mediocrity after this. If he had a hit, he would have been celebrated more. He was the one that apparently refused to cast Segal. Van Damme was originally associated with the first. There was an opening sign right there too.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
It was still profitable. That's good thing. 20 million in the early 90s is really good.
There's no substantive evidence to back that up. Especially since Glover already had a reputation as an action star with the Lethal Weapon franchise. In fact, according to reviews, most were impressed with Glover's performance and casting. There's very little to support the lack of a smash hit had anything to do with Glover.
Satan is a little man.
Glover did well with what he worked with, but not pairing him up with a bigger action star WAS part of the reason the film didn't sell like would have been anticipated.
There's no substantive evidence to back that up. Especially since Glover already had a reputation as an action star with the Lethal Weapon franchise. In fact, according to reviews, most were impressed with Glover's performance and casting. There's very little to support the lack of a smash hit had anything to do with Glover.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
It didn't hit, because there was NO HEADLINING ACTION STAR. Glover was a second fiddle action star.
The evidence is right there in the lackluster box-office results. $20mill wasn't good enough, especially if made outside of the US. A smash hit is when the US takings are exceptionally high compared to budget ratio and overseas then becomes a bonus.
If they couldn't get who they needed to sell it, Fox should have shelved it until they could. It was not the kind of film either, that would give Glover a big plug just for good reviews. It was strong horror/action genre which has a limit on audiences.
Folks largely went to see Lethal Weapon because of Gibson and it was straight forward action. Glover was the token black actor to match him with his own kind of charisma. He couldn't have sold LW on his own either. FACT
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
The evidence is right there in the lackluster box-office results. $20mill wasn't good enough, especially if made outside of the US. A smash hit is when the US takings are exceptionally high compared to budget ratio and overseas then becomes a bonus.
If they couldn't get who they needed to sell it, Fox should have shelved it until they could. It was not the kind of film either, that would give Glover a big plug just for good reviews. It was strong horror/action genre which has a limit on audiences.
Folks largely went to see Lethal Weapon because of Gibson and it was straight forward action. Glover was the token black actor to match him with his own kind of charisma. He couldn't have sold LW on his own either. FACT
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
It didn't hit, because there was NO HEADLINING ACTION STAR.
There's no evidence to substantiate that claim, especially when reviews praised him in the role. $20 million was good in the early 90s.
If they couldn't get who they needed to sell it, Fox should have shelved it until they could.
That's not how the movie industry works. Many times, a movie must be completed and released by a certain date due to contracts and rights. We don't know the ins and outs of the red tape for Predator 2.
Folks largely went to see Lethal Weapon because of Gibson and it was straight forward action.
I gotta disagree. It was the combination of both Gibson and Glover. Neither one could've made the movies work without the other.
He couldn't have sold LW on his own either. FACT
Opinion.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Somethings are just spelt out with insight and hindsight. Predator 2 didn't need to be made when it was. Films will get shelved all the time.
Gibson and Glover worked in well with each other, but Gibson was the main drawcard for both male and female audiences. FACT
Gibson could have headlined this film and still made it a hit. Glover was on his coat tails. Predator 2 proved this when he didn't ignite the box office with his presence in a film that was sequel to one with a strong following. FACT
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Gibson and Glover worked in well with each other, but Gibson was the main drawcard for both male and female audiences. FACT
Gibson could have headlined this film and still made it a hit. Glover was on his coat tails. Predator 2 proved this when he didn't ignite the box office with his presence in a film that was sequel to one with a strong following. FACT
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
There's no evidence Fox might've had that option.
Opinion.
Opinion.
Satan is a little man.
Gibson and Glover worked in well with each other, but Gibson was the main drawcard for both male and female audiences. FACT
Opinion.
Gibson could have headlined this film and still made it a hit. Glover was on his coat tails. Predator 2 proved this when he didn't ignite the box office with his presence in a film that was sequel to one with a strong following. FACT
Opinion.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
preachcaleb said... There's no evidence Fox might've had that option.Opinion you don't have to buy into, but I feel you are making lame excuses for what is obvious to me. Your call!Gibson and Glover worked in well with each other, but Gibson was the main drawcard for both male and female audiences. FACT
Opinion.Gibson could have headlined this film and still made it a hit. Glover was on his coat tails. Predator 2 proved this when he didn't ignite the box office with his presence in a film that was sequel to one with a strong following. FACT
Opinion.
I call things as they see them and won't make excuses for bad judgement calls made, especially from the executive branch. They are supposed to have dollars signs in their eyes, then undermine themselves.
Are you implying Glover could have carried LW on his own over Gibson?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
ToastedCheese said... Opinion you don't have to buy into, but I feel you are making lame excuses for what is obvious to me. Your call!Indeed. But how you call them is just an opinion.
I call things as they see them and won't make excuses for bad judgement calls made, especially from the executive branch. They are supposed to have dollars signs in their eyes, then undermine themselves.
Are you implying Glover could have carried LW on his own over Gibson?
Are you implying Glover could have carried LW on his own over Gibson?
Nope. Just that Gibson couldn't have on his own either. Since it was the two of them that audiences went to see.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
preachcaleb said... Indeed. But how you call them is just an opinion.Opinion!Are you implying Glover could have carried LW on his own over Gibson?
Nope. Just that Gibson couldn't have on his own either. Since it was the two of them that audiences went to see.
I know I didn’t go to see it for Glover. I went for Gibson and the action. Glover rounded out the pairing, but any other actor could have too.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
ToastedCheese said... Opinion!
I know I didn’t go to see it for Glover. I went for Gibson and the action. Glover rounded out the pairing, but any other actor could have too.
any other actor could have too.
Opinion.
Satan is a little man.
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
preachcaleb said...Fine honed insight, like no other opinion….any other actor could have too.
Opinion.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Glover was the saving grace for this film.
Grade "A" Fully Loaded
"Sexy as Hell"
"Sexy as Hell"
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
You think so. I feel the style of the film is the saving grace. I'm not that excited to watch it like I am the first, which has the star presence of Arnie and the tough guy image plug with the rest of the cast.
The urban jungle setting of course required a different type of character, but it needed to be pumped up more.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
The urban jungle setting of course required a different type of character, but it needed to be pumped up more.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
The urban jungle setting of course required a different type of character, but it needed to be pumped up more.You and your pretentiousness combined with your desperation to try and convince others to agree with you…..
It's never gonna happen, dorkface!
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Others can agree with whatever they want. What is pretentious, is your denial…
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Clearly you don't know the meaning of the word pretentious.
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
When I’m the throes of pretension, one revels.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Failure due to casting of Glover
Did you think up that lame comeback all by yourself?
+ It sure looks like it's dead. Let's eat. +