The Signal : Physically and medically impossible

SPOILERS!





Why is this still acceptable to have an bionic arm or leg to give super powers that would require the same strength in the connecting body? In the main characters case, his pelvis would break and tear itself to pieces, or the bionic legs would rip off if he would exert too much power with his bionic calf muscles. It's simply impossible and doesn't make sense!

The same for crazy arms, he is basically wearing METAL GLOVES. So if I put on metal gloves, how then am I able to smash a column of concrete, since all the strength would have to come from my arm, shoulder, spine and even legs to exert that kind of force?

And while we're at it, even if the main character still has genitals, how in the world doesn't he have "scrambled eggs" after running like 100km/h? Or why isn't his head bashed in after running through the glass in the end?

Even for a science fiction, you should get fundamental physics and logic right. I'm surprised no one complains about this, because I'm incapable of suspending my disbelief when watching stuff like this.

Otherwise, it was not a bad film, but stupid writing is stupid.

ah. but lawrence fishburn's character being an artifically intelligent cyborg doesn't bother you at all? xD

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

No lol. That bit is science fiction, but theoretically possible, unlike a human hip made of flesh that withstands the crazy forces or a normal human arm having superhuman strength. Of course you could say say change the muscles and bone structure too, but then they wouldn't have had to use the ugly prosthetics in the first place.

You do not know how the legs worked so you can't really say Fishburnes character is theoretically possible but the legs can't be. They could have replaced any of his bones or muscles for tech.

Sorry but it's alien tech! Anything is possible

Agreed.

We do see tubes attaching the alienware to the flesh, so perhaps there is a bit of disbursement going on there to balance the pressures. Notice when him or his friend get angry or upset somehow the alienware is activated and we can see a reddish hue through the crevices. I guess it gives them extra human strength.

You just have to assume everything was thought of when the extraterrestrials but the bionic parts on the humans. Because lets face it at this point, for humans, attaching any kind of prosthetic limb to a human, to where the human can maneuver the limb subconsciously without much thought and without the motion being robotic is well beyond, many moons beyond, and even light years beyond our reach.

Well his hip bone and skeleton had to have been replaced by some kind of titanium alloy too. And ass muscles. But that doesn't really make sense, if they can do that, why make the legs so ugly? It's simply fact that the hip bones need to match the strength with the legs. There is no way to fiction around that. So it seems implausible and silly to me.

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if they can do that, why make the legs so ugly?

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You thought the legs were ugly?

The legs and hands didn't have the fidelity of the human parts they were replacing. If they made his pelvis and hips and skeleton (in order to survive the physics of speedy bio legs) at the correct size, then why not make the limbs the correct size too?

It's not meant to be plausible. It's science fiction, for f__k's sake!



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They died because it's in the script

Science fiction is supposed to be plausible. It's not clear that you understand what science fiction or even fiction mean.

So Harry Potter books are completely bunk because there's no plausibility to the references made to magic? Nonsense. It's fiction and that's the key word. Pull your head in son.

Well, the HP books are bunk unless you allow yourself to be drawn into the specific fantasy world that they occupy. But if you do enter that world and then Rowling throws in something that doesn't fit there, like a Terminator from the future, you'd complain.

Or take a Bond movie. It's a different fantasy world but it has its own laws and limits. If James Bond got thrown out of a plane and then simply teleported into M's office, you'd feel a little cheated, right?

Same deal with this movie. It sets up a fictional universe in which alien tech is a reality. Fine. I'm on board with that, let's go. But then they casually add, "By the way, the laws of physics don't apply here" - which is basically just a Get Out of Jail Free card for bad writing.

The options for the viewer then are (1) switch off brain and deal with it; (2) switch off movie and watch something better; (3) come on IMDb and complain

I think you are mixing up science fiction with fantasy,
Science fiction is just fiction based on current scientific knowledge, sure there is soft and hard sf-, but even Dick didnt write stuff that contradicted basic logic ( at lest the books he wrote when he wanst high, *beep* space jesus still cracks me up ).

you are overanalyzing. it's a movie

You`re not thinking big picture here. The physics aspect you mention might be impossible on earth, but they are clearly not on earth. Whole different ball-park. But nice try.

FYI physics works in the entire universe. It's the law.

No physics adjustment would both allow for the stuff shown in the movie to work AND not show all around them.

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FYI physics works in the entire universe. It's the law.

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in so far as we know as humans. Remember, theories remain so until proven wrong. Just live with the fact this is a science fiction story and don't read too much into it. You might actually start enjoying some sci-fi stories.


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They died because it's in the script

That's one of my pet peeves. For example the scene in The Dark Knight when Batman bends the barrel of the gun. It's great that Batman has that super suit with hydraulic enhancements, but the goon could never have held the gun that tightly when so much force was exerted on it.

Also, the movie implied that the character had these bionic legs ever since he woke up for the first time in the facility, because he couldn't move/feel his legs and he sat in a wheel chair. So we are supposed to believe that he didn't touch his legs, or even looked at them, or went to the bathroom before he fell off that stretcher?

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The IMDb forums: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

I was thinking that too during that scene lol! Maybe a *very* fast twisting motion *might* use the inertia of the gun and the holders arm to bend the barrel, but it was too slow for that.

Batman's gadget could work regardless if the gun was held by anyone - but not the way it was done in the movie.

The gadget could hold the barrel at two points, A and B.

'=A===B==[GUN,]<<(

Now isn't that some fine ASCII art?
Gripping the point B tight, hydraulics could press on the A point, bending the barrel around the point B.
Just anchor the whole thing to the Bat-suit and thus use 200+ pounds of Batman's weight as leverage.

Another way would be for Batman to have hydraulics and reinforcement in both arms, gripping the stock of the rifle with one arm, while doing the bending with the other.
Again, neither one of those was shown in the movie.


BUT The whole "Batman has a gun-bending gadget in his glove" is well within the limits of acceptable suspension of disbelief.
I'd buy that. He's the god damn Batman, after all.

Unlike the demands that this movie makes.

Two words, alien technology. It doesn't have to make sense because it's way out of our understanding on how *beep* even works. For all we know our laws are nothing but *beep* that will change a hundred times until we get it right. Those legs also glowed in red when he was about to do something strenuous. Maybe it bends the gravity or some *beep* so he can do it without breaking down to pieces.

The increase in human knowledge is the cause of the decline of religions.

As a Mechanical Engineer and Computer Science grad, the trolls debating Universal Laws of Physics, without any background really explains how come we haven't evolved more quickly.

The entire hybrid skeletal structure still human crap is deplorable. The rejection by the organic system with the inorganic system alone would eliminate grafting, never mind the control systems that would run the legs would have to be matched to his neural network, etc., and his entire frame would be tossed as the only useful part is the brain.

Hell, the drag resistance force would have burned his face reaching Mach 1.

Sorry, the film is artsy, and scientifically insulting.

You're such a genius and yet i) you don't understand the principle of cause and effect ["explains how come we haven't evolved more quickly"], ii) you don't know the meaning of the word 'troll', and iii) you judge vastly more advanced alien technology by the standards of contemporary human technology (how do you know the legs are inorganic?).

Also, how the *beep* did you graduate with such abysmal grammar?

~.~
There were three of us in this marriage
http://www.imdb.com/list/ze4EduNaQ-s/

Oh I think your post illustrated one great reason we "haven't evolved more quickly" as you put it. Your inability to think outside the box. Your argument makes me think of one that would have come from a naysayer of organ transplant back in the day before anti-rejection drugs. This movie is obviously not proposing that a mechanical engineer/computer science grad accomplished these things on earth. They are obviously advanced in ways earth humans couldn't even fathom so to attempt to discredit science fiction based on your still incredibly limited knowledge of what is possible today on earth has really put you in an intellectual box. These are advanced beings capable of interstellar travel, maybe they have more advanced anti-rejection methods, maybe a mastery of the neural network that is so advanced that hooking up a control system is to them like hooking up a DVD player is for us, they never explain just how the legs work, you are assuming they still function the same way human legs do, maybe his hips don't move just the legs at hyper speed and they were glowing because they were creating an energy field of some kind around him to protect him from high speed debris, wind resistance, and running into stuff, maybe they even have a gravitational force to reduce g-force on his head and body. Ok this is getting a bit long, my point is for you to call a work of fiction insulting because technology exists that you couldn't recreate is pretty ridiculous in its self, then to call it impossible is just ignorant, our "laws of physics" have changed a lot over the years, the theory of relativity isn't even that old and turned the physics world upside down, and I'm pretty sure it's still full of unproven theories as well, so while I'm sure you did great at physics in school, I highly doubt you have a mastery of all physics in the universe that would give you the ability to determine what is possible and impossible. So come on open up that mind, I'm sure people found Jules Verne "scientifically insulting and impossible" and look how that turned out.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." - Benjamin Franklin

The thing about those experiments is they aren't focused just on the physical
aspect of human biology, but the focus is more on psychological.
We can already see they are farly successful with building cyborgs and adding
higly sofisticated prostetic limbs, so the possibility they could have
replaced his entire body with something more durable is not so implausible.

IMHO the entire point of their experiments is the fusion of human
consciousness with their technology. The fact they kept parts of the body
(to calm down human personality part), but intentionaly left some parts
exposed only strenghten that part.
They wanted him to see the limbs, but more so they wanted to see THE reaction.

You can see that other experiments have failed because other people, for
whatever reason, weren't capable of handling it.

Jonah was talking about how he feels there is something wrong with his
body, but Nic didn't. Whats better, he wasnt even aware something was
different until he saw them, but even then he was successful to be composed.
Now, did Nic talked with Jonah back then or did aliens just taunted him
to see the reaction is irelevant, the important part is he did perfect
fusion even with all that noise and in alient minds that meant successful
experiment.
Maybe that was also the reason why Damon eliminated other test subjects,
similar like in Dark City they wanted to "Shut it down :)", they
have all the data they need.

You're certainly right, the focus is on the psychological. It's possible the whole thing is a virtual reality just to conduct tests on the human psyche, but what value such experiments would have eludes me.

I liked the movie it's just that science gaffes like this take me out of them.

I don't think it was virtual reality since in this case there would be no
point in eliminating other test subjects (for whatever reason Damon did it).

About the reason for experiments, that wasn't the point of the movie. Though
the real question is does this film have a point at all, which is why i
degraded the final score since i don't like ambiguity for the sake of it.

If you want reason you can have your imagination work something plausable.
Asimilation of human species (strength in diversity) so testing is crucial
to work something out, maybe they were trying to help human race somehow
(you can argue they are cruel in that regard, but we are doing same thing
with animal experiments to help other animals).
Maybe human consciousness has something that they deem useful
Who knows, could you even understand the reasons from a higher intelligence
point of view if it was a complex subject.

Anyway, this movie succeeded to strike most of our imagination and analytical
thinking. That is a success in itself, not many movies can do that.
Hell, after 5 years i finally registered with phone just to comment on this
subject.

Maybe i dont like some parts of this movie, though most of them are fairly good,
but one thing i know is that i can damn well appreciate it.

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Maybe human consciousness has something that they deem useful

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I guess if you follow the movies plot in experimenting with crossing human biology and brains with technology, maybe humans are more suitable for this cybernetic technology than they are themselves? Maybe their biochemistry and brains work differently, and they need human cyborgs for some task? Too bad we don't really meet any of the aliens, only the strange robot. I guess the robot is some kind of remote controlled drone, because if they have artificial intelligence that advanced that they sure as hell don't need humans. Which would only leave scientific curiosity, but the experiments didn't seem to be well structured. More like sadistic experiments of a mad scientist instead of controlled tests.

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Who knows, could you even understand the reasons from a higher intelligence
point of view if it was a complex subject.

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According to some discussions I had over the years on the internet, that's definitely a no ;)

Pretty sure they did something to their entire body since the grenade left jonah relatively unharmed considering it exploded in his face and then took bullets in his back and still wrecked the ground

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Pretty sure they did something to their entire body since the grenade left jonah relatively unharmed considering it exploded in his face and then took bullets in his back and still wrecked the ground

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Yes, I noticed that too. And after Nic broke the "barrier" between simulation and real world he didn't suffer more damage so I take Nic's entire body was also somehow improved.

However I think there was no aliens or alien technology but only artificial intelligence that was originating from Earth. That would also explain the arabic numbers on the space "city". AI was trying to improve humans to the next level and the alien aspect was just part of the tests. Nic had improved legs, Jonah had improved hands and Haley had improved mind but only Nic survived the improvement operations as was illustrated the tests he passed.

But as other have said this film can be interpreted in many ways so everyone can have their own version of it

Even when I was a kid watching the Six Million Dollar Man this sort of thing bothered me. Steve Austin had bionic legs, a bionic arm and a bionic eye, but the rest of him was human. So how was he able to jump off a tall building or lift up a truck without breaking his non-bionic spine?

Because the bionic legs absorbed the shock. Same way you can crash a car at 100mph and come out unscathed, whereas if you're shot out of a cannon unprotected at 100mph your chances will drop considerably.

~.~
There were three of us in this marriage
http://www.imdb.com/list/ze4EduNaQ-s/

I give to you a real exoskeleton leg addition that reduces the legs power need by up to 24% (whitch means that if he were to kick something at 24% more power his legs could stand it because the exoskeleton would be the one absorbing the power.

http://biomech.media.mit.edu/portfolio_page/load-bearing-exoskeleton-for-augmentation-of-human-running/

This is completel possible and purchasable with current technology.

He had ALIEN TECHNOLOGY, which in order to travel to earth and do what it did had to be significantly more advanced. if we can increase the poewr by 24% NOW, imagine what we could, in, say, 1000 years?


Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

Thanks for the link, quite interesting.

But that doesn't really address my point, of course it's possible to create an artificial limb that is many times stronger. The problem is that if your hip bone isn't replaced, too high forces would rip your unaltered body parts apart. Or that just replacing your hand would enable you to punch through concrete.

It might be nitpicking but it's just one of those things that make me go "nah that's not plausible".

well yes, without some spartial dampener inside it would still reside to another part of the body, however once again, alien technology, may as well have kinetic dampening inside.

another thing to remmeber is that this seems to have all happened inside a simulation. this would mean that he may not be actually punching a wall, just thinking he did.


Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

Yeah a kinetic dampening field would be about the only thing that would make this possible. But I think with a dampening field (or a simulation) a lot of the themes of the movie don't make sense, especially the idea of fusion between the human body and alien tech. And if it's about exploring human psychology it would seem far fetched that the humans are actually "virtual clones".

I still like the movie and thought it was quite interesting, but I wish it was just a little more "plausible" and thought out and not so fuzzy around the edges :)

I agree that with simulation the fusion theme is out of the window, however we clearly see it is a simulation at the end, so theres that.

oh and i dont meant that humans are virtual. i meant the world is a simulation. they may think they rammed the door down, but what they did was kick air and some light show changed, ect.

I do agree that breaking physics without explanation can take you out of your immersion, however since i always fantacized about such powers myself it didnt do it for me, even if i know its not possible with known technology.


Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

Hehe. If you fantasized about stuff like this (like we all did lol) check out the book "Old man's war", it's an amazing hard sci-fi story about some folks becoming super human.

I don't agree with it being a simulation in the sense of a light show. IMHO what we saw in the movie was material, not "holodeck". When he broke through the boundary he just broke through a big 3D monitor at the perimeter of the "laboratory".

Thanks for recommendation. Love Sci-Fi and will check its availability when at home. Though it may take a while, i kinda got way more stuff to watch/read/ect planned than i got time for them, so sometimes it takes a while to get to something just added to "The list".

Well, i can see the simulation being that way too, i guess we interpreted it differently then.


Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

Its just 'fuzzy' for a virgin who doesnt have anything oher to distract them from over analizing a fun sci flick, once you have a girlfriend that you can take to the movies and finger her pussy, you will be able to really enjoy the movie.

With regard to the alien technology, you don't actually know what the bionic legs/arms were made of. It looked like metal, but it could have been a material that was very strong but very light. And of course, as others have pointed out, the whole thing could have been an illusion. Realistic physics wasn't remotely an interest of this film.

I see the point of the OP and completely agree with him/her. This thing (and others) bugs me too, and didn't like the movie in general.

Posts like these always amuse me when it comes to science fiction films. One of my favorites was from the movie Sunshine. A guy made a post claiming he hated the movie because the ship had gravity, when it shouldn't have, and the Stellar Bomb was completely unrealistic, lol. Clearly some people just can't handle fiction, especially science fiction. The idea that everything has to line up with our current understanding of medicine and the universe is nothing short of laughable, especially considering the fact that were still infants when it comes to science and understanding the laws and mechanics of the universe. I guarantee, most laws will be rewritten many times over before we finally get a clear understanding of the laws and mechanics at play in the universe and unlock all of the secrets.

Were not even close right now. If you were to take a football field and make the 1 yard line a very basic understanding and the 100 yard line 100% understanding, mankind would be at like the 5 yard line right now. I honestly feel sorry for people that pull this crap everytime a science fiction films hits screens. People like this just have no imagination whatsoever. The only question I really have for people like this is why even bother watching science fiction films at all anymore? These people know going in that they are going to nitpick the film to death about completely irrelevant crap.

I really do feel sorry for people like this. It would just really suck to be that kind of a movie viewer. Sci-fi is by far my single favorite genre of film and I just couldn't imagine having so many films ruined for such stupid reasons. Oh well, I guess this is just one more thing to be thankful of as I can sitback and enjoy sci-fi films for what they are, Science FICTION!!

Still Shooting With Film!

Hey I love science fiction movies and I have no problem "suspending my disbelief" for good movies. It's a question of "plausibility" and degree. Think back to the cheesy sci-fi movies of the 50s! It's not so much things that we can't explain that annoy me in sci fi, but things that we DO can explain. In that sense for me science fiction gets more and more "constricted" with age, the more we KNOW about the universe the less slack we can afford.

For example sunshine was a brilliant movie, of course until the "monster" captain. Had he been less superhuman and simply mad, the movie would have been an absolute classic. Like this it's a great movie with a flawed element in it.

You wrote that we basically know nothing of science and that "most laws will be rewritten many times". That is simply not true! Maybe that is the difference in understanding of science. Science is not up for debate. There are many theories that are unproven, but many are proven. And that means there is no "rewriting". Of course we do not have a theory of everything yet!

I don't have a problem with telekinesis, since that is fiction, but I do have a problem if someone gets only his hand replaced and now he can smash through concrete. How can that work? It's just "too obvious" just from looking at your own hand lol. Where does the force come from? How do his legs not tear off his pelvis?

Also I did enjoy the movie, just because I criticize it's mistakes doesn't mean I didn't like it at all :) I just wish some script writers would try a bit harder to make sci fi more plausible.

Plausibility? First off, as I said before, mankind's understanding of the universe is infantile at best so to say something is or isn't plausible, based on our current knowledge, really is laughable at best. You have absolutely NO CLUE what will or won't be possible in the future as mankind continues to advance and unlock the secrets of the cosmos. For all we know, there are ways of completely breaking the laws of physics as we know them right now and yes, that includes relativity. Sorry, but you just have NO CLUE and to suggest otherwise really is laughable at best! As long as the characters and story are good, the more outlandish the better in my book as I understand going in that we know next to nothing right now and have no clue what will or wont be possible in the future. Not to mention, were actually talking about FICTION here. How plausible is something like the Wizard of Oz, lol? That doesn't stop it from being the AMAZING film that it is. How plausible is something like Inception? Star Wars? The Matrix? Guardians of the Galaxy? The Avengers? Plausibility, lol. Based on our current knowledge, those films are about as implausible as implausible gets. That doesn't stop them from being HIGHLY entertaining films, as long as you can sit back and enjoy a good piece of fiction, which clearly many people cannot. Plausibility, lol. Thats just another way of saying people have no imagination.

No offense, but posts like these always have been a joke and always will be a joke as they are based on our current understanding of the cosmos, which again is infantile at best right now. We just throw things in to help balance equations. When the mass of the universe didn't add up, we just created Dark Matter. When the expansion of the universe didn't add up, we just created Dark Energy, even tho we have no clue what either of them really are. So basically your entire methodology for deciding plausibility is so flawed that its not even worth debating it.

People like yourself should just stop watching Sci-fi. end of story.

And to say that it simply isn't true that most laws will be rewritten is once again laughable at best. The scientific communities have been trying for years to come up with a single unified theory and it has FAILED horribly. In fact, its been one of the biggest failures in the entire history of science and its because our understanding of everything is so infantile. We still don't understand most of the phenomena that takes place in the universe. In other words, well just agree to disagree. We have a LONG LONG ways to go before we even come close to understanding all of the laws of the universe and how they work together. Were not even close right now and once again, for all we know, we will learn ways of completely breaking the laws of physics as we know them somewhere down the line, which will make even the most implausible..well, plausible.

Do yourself a BIG favor and the next science fiction film you walk into, just sit back and watch it and enjoy it for what it is, a piece of fiction. Turn your brain off and just let the director tell his story. You will thank me in the long run. Or of course, you can continue to let your HIGHLY flawed ideas on plausibility pollute your movie going experiences. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other as I will continue to enjoy sci-fi as I always have.

Laws can't be rewritten? We have already done so many times.

The law of the Conservation of Energy is a perfect example of a scientific law that has changed over time. It was originally a balance between potential and dynamic energy that was expanded to include chemical, heat, light, and mass. The atomic structure went from the Thompson model to the Rutherford model then to the Bohr model followed by the de Broglie and Dirac constructions. Numerous other extensions that are less publicized have been added since the 1950s.

Newton's Law of Gravity was changed to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity

Here is a good article regarding the possibility of changing our current laws.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/07/100707-science-proton-smaller-standard-model-quantum-physics/

Laws can be rewritten. All it takes is a simple discovery that changes something we thought we already knew. It has happened before and it will happen many more times as we continue on. Just because we declare something a law doesn't suddenly make it infallible as once again our understanding of the cosmos is incomplete. Nothing we know about the cosmos right now is infallible, except maybe some of the very basics like the speed of light and whatnot. Your confidence in mankind's current knowledge is HIGHLY misplaced.

Here is another one for you regarding radioactive decay:

http://www.naturalnews.com/033101_sun_particles_radioactive_decay.html

Again, just because we put LAW in front of something doesn't suddenly make it 100% infallible.

I can say this with 100% certainty, if Hollywood had to abide by what is or isn't plausible in regards to making films.well, Hollywood would be boring as hell. Thankfully, that isn't the case as there are tons of writers and directors out there who actually have an imagination and aren't afraid to make films that push the boundaries in regards to what is or isn't possible. 90% of my favorite films wouldn't exist at all if Hollywood shared your opinions on this matter. They don't and that definitely something to be thankful for!


Still Shooting With Film!

First, please chill out a bit mate :)

So you disagree that stories should "make sense" in some way? What is wrong with more plausibility with what we know. That doesn't preclude creating interesting stories at all, it just makes it more challenging. Hence it's called lazy writing if people don't work at making their stories consistent etc. Using your logic you can't criticize any movie for anything. And again, I didn't say I didn't enjoy the movie, I just dislike the bionic fubar.

My argument isn't even about the possibility to do something, even if you can do something why do it in a "stupid way"? For example if they "magically" make his hip bones strong and fast enough to withstand the forces and speed and heat that would be created by his stunts, why remove his legs at all? If they can do that to his hips, why not do it to the rest of his body?

BTW, slightly OP but I'm curious now: Do you believe in man made climate change? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you have a kind of "unbelieving" attitude towards science.

Now you are scuking Dick to a smarter man while trying to keep a descent facade, failing at all levels.

Well said. I'm so sick of people talking about what is isn't possible when it comes to science fiction movies.

News flash folks, we don't know everything, we don't even know a tiny fraction of everything.

If you told some one 50 years ago that you would be able to instantly communicate with people on the other side of the world, see their face in real time on a machine with no wires attached it, or use that same machine to pull information, images, movies etc out of thin air in a matter of seconds that person would tell you "that's not possible." Yet here we are doing exactly that, within the life times of those people.

When my father was my age VHS tapes gad just come to the market, now you can fit 100's of movies onto a micro sd card smaller than the nail on my pinky.

My point is: don't going around saying what will never be possible, chances you are wrong.



Herman Goering is a "bit dodgy"?!