Religion, Faith, and Spirituality : Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

You claimed you had evidence, and declined to say what it was. That's an admission you don't really have any, and a capitulation of the argument.

I accept.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I said the evidence is all around us. God created everything

If we take the time to see with the heart and not with the mind, we shall see that we are surrounded completely by angels ~ Carlos Santana

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I said the evidence is all around us. God created everything
The demonstrable "everything" which surrounds us is the result of natural processes which can be described and understood (physics, anyone?), without the need of an additional, complicating factor like a "God" (if you propose "God" as an explanation, you must also account for where he came from - "who created God?", as well as why he's not objectively perceptible and quantifiable, like everything else is). Most modern people get this, and don't attribute natural phenomena like rain, thunder and lightning to angry sky gods.

If you wish to try to be glib, and claim that "God" has always existed, one could as easily remark that the universe may well have always existed, without the need for an additional "God" to account for its existence. The two propositions do not have equal standing because the universe can be seen, touched, described, quantified; "God" cannot. You cannot demonstrate "God."

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

We get it,you don't believe in God. Why does it bother you so much that others take things on faith and find comfort in it? You are being just as bad as religious nut jobs claiming they are right and everyone else is wrong. If they are not hurting anyone then why the need to prove so badly someone is wrong? I may not believe in a God but I am not running around screaming to what amounts to saying "You are stupid and I am 100% right!" I do not get this argument when it comes to faith. Do you do the same thing when people worship different Gods or Goddesses?

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I've been calmly conversing. You're the one who seems to be getting upset. Being unable to support your own claims in a conversation must be very frustrating. I empathize.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I have no stake in this so I am far from upset. It is you wanting people to provide proof yet you can not provide proof he does not exist. Take science out of the equation for a moment. If there was no science and someone told you they have faith the sun will rise in the east and set in the west would you call them crazy? I can give a lot of examples. Science is the way to explain why things happen. Until you can come up with a scientific way to prove God one way or the other you badgering people is pointless. Where is your burdon of proof that he doesn't exist? Maybe the Gods people worship were from a time we were more in tune with nature and the natural world. Or maybe they really were just a way to explain things and be less afraid. Point is you or me or anyone else can not prove it one way or the other. Someone finding comfort in something does not harm me or you. Edit: If I did worship any Gods or Goddesses it would be the ones of my Greek ancestors

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

It is you wanting people to provide proof yet you can not provide proof he does not exist.
One is not required to prove a negative. That's not how the burden of proof works.
Take science out of the equation for a moment.

Assuming one could, why would one?
If there was no science and someone told you they have faith the sun will rise in the east and set in the west would you call them crazy?
It depends. If, in this hypothetical, one can presume that this isn't the first time the sun has risen in the east, then there's already observable data suggesting it will do so again. One could claim it by faith if one wanted to, but it would be hardly necessary.
Point is you or me or anyone else can not prove it one way or the other.
Religion makes all sorts of claims which can be shown to be false. For instance, the New Testament writes all sorts of checks it cannot cash, such as Matthew 18:19, "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven," and variants, cf. Matthew 21:22; Mark 11:24; John 14:13; John 15:7; John 15:16; John 16:23. Another would be Mark 16:17-18, "and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well" (cf. Luke 10:19). These kinds of claims can be put to empirical tests, and they simply do not work for 𝑎𝑛𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒.
Someone finding comfort in something does not harm me or you.
The irrationality of religious beliefs certainly can. Take for example the woman who was interviewed driving away from having attended a crowded church service maskless, insisting that she cannot catch or spread Covid-19 because she's "covered in Jesus' blood" (
). No doubt it comforts her and others to believe that, but it's just not reality. And people are dying from it.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

We are not talking religious extremists so your video is irrelevant. That is a whole different topic and every religion has people like that. There are people on this site who worship the Allfather,there are Wiccans,there are all matter of worshipers. Are you going to go around demanding they provide proof? You take comfort in science and they take comfort in something else. No one here has ever tried to push their beliefs on me and vice versa. The whole argument is stupid no matter who it is coming from. You are not going to change their minds and they are not going to change yours. Live and let live. There are contridicting facts in the bible. I believe it to be written by men. There are a lot of things written in it that we would not dream of doing because it is just wrong. Everyone has to find their own path and what speaks to their soul. I am sure most people are smart enough to follow the good examples in a book written hundreds of years ago and not try to inturpet it as they see fit. Science is your religion,let them have theirs. Let us all root out the extremisits in whatever path we choose.

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

There are people on this site who worship the Allfather,there are Wiccans,there are all matter of worshipers. Are you going to go around demanding they provide proof?
Generally speaking, the non-christians do not claim to have evidence for their beliefs. They're usually honest enough to admit they don't have any. And that's fine.

What's with that emphasis on taking "comfort"? My reliance upon science doesn't serve that function. I don't need it. The way you talk about your religious faith, though, is the same as the way small children have a security blanket or toy, or are indulged to believe in Santa Claus, for "comfort." Past a certain point, though, parents expect them to get over it, because it becomes an inconvenience; if it continues, it's regarded as a form of mental illness, and they have to take their child to a specialist. They do not continue to indulge the child because of the comfort it takes in it; they pressure it. It's unreasonable, and it has to stop.

I don't have the time, energy, or that kind of interest to pursue the matter of your irrational beliefs. A post or so ago, you claimed, "I have no stake in this so I am far from upset." That's disingenuous; you're sufficiently triggered by the presence of someone else's non-belief to keep arguing, becoming incrementally ever more strident with each reply.
The whole argument is stupid no matter who it is coming from.
No, it's not. One is grounded in objective reality, and the other isn't. This isn't Fox News, with its 'bothsiderism,' attempting to give gravity to the side of arguments that don't have any.
I am sure most people are smart enough to follow the good examples in a book written hundreds of years ago and not try to inturpet it as they see fit.
An interesting statement; you apparently think that people shouldn't try to think critically about statements in the bible, but should simply surrender to its innate wisdom, whatever Christians have always claimed that happens to be. You see that as the "smart" choice.

That's how one winds up with people like the woman in that video.
We are not talking religious extremists so your video is irrelevant. That is a whole different topic and every religion has people like that.
No, it's not a whole different topic. That woman has the same epistemological approach that you do - faith, and a reliance on religious groupthink, seeking comfort in belief and in the company of those who share her delusions. Your inability to let this go after having stated your position speaks to your own underlying potential extremism.

Perhaps the fact that 'every religion has people like that' says something about religion.
Science is your religion
No, dear; it's not.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/science-is-not-religion_b_3870282

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

Whoosh! Things just go right over your head don't they? And how can I be upset if I am not religious? You make no sense except for the fact you want to be judgmental and closed minded because what others believe does not line up with what you do. Or you are just trolling to be trolling. You take what I said and twist it to fit your narrative. In that you are very much like a religious extremist. I pity anyone as closed minded as you. It must be hard to have such a mindset and never see the beauty in what you can not explain or understand. You probably can not see the beauty of what you can explain. What hell you must be in to be such a joyless soul. The only thing that seems to matter to you is being right. You are taking it way to personal that someone believes in God,like it threatens you some how.

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

And how can I be upset if I am not religious?
The fact remains that you are, regardless of whether you think of yourself as religious. You're still defending religious faith.
(163-word ad hominem, highly projective rant, feigning pity in order to cover for her own bitterness)


§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I am defending not bashing what someone believes or not belives. To live and let live. Is that really such a hard concept for you? Now I know you have to be trolling. Who does not understand something so simple?

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

To live and let live. Is that really such a hard concept for you?
Evidently it is for you, because you're definitely not living by it.
I am defending not bashing what someone believes or not belives.
It's incredible to me that you're so exercised by a simple message board discussion; you've apparently appointed yourself board monitor to try to put a stop to me, and you seem to lack sufficient self-awareness to realize that you're "bashing." It's also disingenuous for you to pretend you're not religious. If that were true, you wouldn't be so triggered by a simple request for the evidence a believer on this thread claims to have.

I haven't seen this much projection coming from a poster since the days of Victorina32/Ada_Lovelace.

De-escalating from the position in which you've placed yourself is simple: stop replying to me. Otherwise, I can calmly continue this conversation indefinitely.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

OK troll 😂 Nice deflection on your part. You have been schooled and your little ego is hurt. Your long winded replies say you are very much invested. If you can not handle differing opinions after demanding people to show proof then stop posting. This is a forum. You do not get to dictate people posting after your shit stirring. We both know that is what it comes down to. Notice how everyone else is converseing and having different opinions? That's how it works. They are actually contributing not demanding to "prove" something.

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

Not nearly as invested as you seem to be.

Your every reply now comes out as the complete antithesis of what you're demanding of me. It's all ad hominem now, with nothing else to contribute.

It's not my fault that neither you nor cheeky are able to support your claims.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I made no claim but you did. You are daft 😂

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I made no claim but you did.
You've made plenty of claims.

In your second post to this thread, you claimed that "a God who created all this" would reflect the same interest exhibited by human parents. In the same post you came perilously close to claiming that anyone who didn't believe this of God was "crazy."

Additionally, you've spent so much effort here defending a poster who has made claims about God that it pretty much amounts to the same as having made those kinds of claims yourself.

Then there's the ad hominem and strawman claims you've made about the nature of my posts to this thread (i.e. "running around screaming to what amounts to saying "You are stupid and I am 100% right!""). You actually claimed I had the burden to prove that God doesn't exist. That's a fundamentalist Christian-style argument, and I'm kind of embarrassed for you to see you making it. You lost this argument badly, and now you're just trying to be nasty about it. But you're incapable of angering me or getting under my skin the way I've obviously gotten under yours - even though that was never my objective; you were simply triggered. I'm sorry to have offended you, but I offer this without retreating in any way from what I've said here.

I hope you have a happy (and safe!) Thanksgiving. Do you have any plans for it?

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

Like I said,daft. Did you skip the part where I said IF that is what people believe? Give it up before you further make an ass of yourself. I could of swore you did not want to continue talking to me. Once more you have embarrassed yourself 😂

“Love the people who saw you when you were invisible to everyone else.”

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I could of swore you did not want to continue talking to me.
No, hon - I told you that I could continue this indefinitely without it bothering me in the slightest. And all of it without raising my voice, cursing you, or namecalling you.

I'm good for it if you are. Keep posting.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

No, I don't need to account. Do you know what faith is?

That's fine that you're a non believer but don't ask me to give proof because I already told you my proof and God is eternal. I see the proof, if you don't, that's on you

If we take the time to see with the heart and not with the mind, we shall see that we are surrounded completely by angels ~ Carlos Santana

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

No, I don't need to account. Do you know what faith is?
I think Mark Twain said it best: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
That's fine that you're a non believer but don't ask me to give proof because I already told you my proof and God is eternal. I see the proof, if you don't, that's on you
I didn't ask you for "proof". "Proof" is for mathematics. I asked you for evidence, which you claimed you had, but have been unable to provide. Now you're attempting to claim you don't have to. That's true, of course, but it makes your claim a dishonest one.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

That's fine

If we take the time to see with the heart and not with the mind, we shall see that we are surrounded completely by angels ~ Carlos Santana

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

“As so often occurs however, one finds the Catholics doing things the bible forbids”

Lollol

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

What sort of 'Lollol' is that? An 'I agree' or an 'I disagree'?

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

Definitely agree.

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?



§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

😇 Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?



Watching over us does not mean to the exclusion of doing other things
I believe those in heaven will have mastery over time and an increased ability to multi-task due to it.

"It’s not the people who vote that count. It’s the people who count the votes."


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😇 Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?



If we take the time to see with the heart and not with the mind, we shall see that we are surrounded completely by angels ~ Carlos Santana

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

hope not. i have jacked off to some strange shit

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

What if they're in the other place?

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from Heaven?…



"I AM El Señor Fernando PÓO (💩)!!!!".

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

No… but I use to believe that sort of thing when I was a kid. I believed that we all got together in some afterlife. That would be nice too.
Now that I'm older, I believe that we simply live on through the memories of those who love/loved us.

Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Do you believe your loved ones watch over you from heaven?

I believe there are entities that can watch or interact with you. Technically there may be a 4d entity watching you right now that you cannot see because they’re 4d. Comforting thought, heh heh heh >:)

I'm cumming.
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