The Lord Of The Rings : Elves stories?

Elves stories?

Are there any Elves stories?

I know that Tolkien wrote separate books about middle earth before the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. I think it talked a lot about the Elves.

Re: Elves stories?

Hey there. The Silmarillion covers most of the elves' history since their creation (and speaks about the creation of men and dwarves too). It's a rather long book, but very much worth a read (it doesn't have to be read straight through, like a traditional novel, but bits of interesting information can be gathered here and there). Galadriel and Elrond are mentioned in it.

The Children of Hurin tells one particular story regarding an elf family, in a more traditional novel-like way, and Beren and Lúthien (the story of a romance between a human and an elf, like Aragorn and Arwen), based on Tolkien's old manuscripts, will be published next year.

(These stories are mentioned in the Silmarillion, and the story of Beren and Lúthien is additionally mentioned by Aragorn and Sam at different points in Lord of the Rings).

Re: Elves stories?

This is great info, thank you. I look forward to reading The Silmarillion!
I'm fascinated by the Elves.

Re: Elves stories?

No problem, man. Just be forewarned that the Silmarillion (or "Sil" as some people call it for short) reads a bit like an encyclopedia (or the Bible) sometimes.

Happy reading!

Re: Elves stories?

For advanced reading, you can also look to The Peoples of Middle-Earth, which is part of the "History of Middle Earth" series.

Look- it's trying to think!

Re: Elves stories?

To add to what CTS wrote; after a person reads The Silmarillion and if they want more in depth history about the Elves, I suggest checking out the book, Morgoth's Ring, which is the tenth volume of the "History of Middle Earth" series.
Morgoth's Ring has several detailed essays by Tolkien about the Elves; how they are physically and spiritually, their corruption by Morgoth as well as more about why they don't interact that much with humans.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Elves stories?

At the risk of running through "History of Middle Earth's" greatest hits, The War of the Jewels, Vol. 11, has some good material as well. Answering the OP, it has the Elves' creation myth at the Waters of Awakening.

Look- it's trying to think!

Re: Elves stories?

I've been aware of the History of Middle Earth books for years, CTS, (as they've been much discussed on these boards in the past), and have never seen them in bookstores or libraries.

I assume most readers have gotten them through Amazon?


Re: Elves stories?

Yes; Amazon has the whole set ready and waiting!

I'd start with Vol. X. Counterintuitive, but trust me.

Look- it's trying to think!

Re: Elves stories?

Just to add a bit more about volume X, "Morgoth's Ring" and why it is an eye opening book for those who want to go deeper into The Silmarillion story.

In the early days of the Ringnut community, athene got a copy of "Morgoth's Ring". She raved about it and told me and others to get it. Several of us did including me and CTS.
The essays and notes by Tolkien in that book opened my mind to the depth of his fiction.

For instance, who is this Morgoth fellow? One might remember him from The Simarillion story.
But it turns out that Morgoth (Melkor) is the underlying driving force throughout the entire mythology. But not in a traditional story sense way.
And there are essays about the Elves and Orcs and how time was calculated without and sun / moon and on it goes.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Elves stories?

That's interesting, BB; which other volumes apart from X would you and/or CTS most recommend for those who haven't read them (since they are numerous)?

(Merry Christmas to you all, BTW).

Re: Elves stories?

Hi kjnics; If someone wants to go beyond "The Silmarillion" I would recommend two other volumes besides "Morgoth's Ring" (vol. X of the History of Middle Earth series).
I'm going to go outside the History of Middle Earth set and point out two other books which imo are fundamental to understanding the Tolkien myth in depth.

1. "Unfinished Tales"; This has more exploration about Tolkien's view of Wizards, Galadriel, and some more information about events in the Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings.

2. "The Children of Hurin"; For those who like the style of a novel, this book takes a chunk of the Silmarillion story, fleshes it out, which makes it the closest to a novel from that part of the myth.
There is some overlap with a part of "Unfinished Tales" but TCOH is still a good read imo.

* As for The History of Middle Earth series, for a reader who loves poetry of various kinds, volume III, "The Lays of Beleriand" shows Tolkien the poet.
It is in two parts.
"The Lay of the Children of Hurin" is an alliterative poem. This is a fairly rare style and I enjoyed it quite a bit.
"The Lay of Leithian" has quite a bit of rhyming in it by contrast which interested me less.
For poetry lovers however, this might be an interesting choice.

* Merry Christmas to you and yours.


BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Elves stories?

All great recommendations, BB; thanks!

I'd really enjoy a conversation regarding Tolkien and his influence on different ideological, political and/or religious currents, BTW (or how he's interpreted by different readers/viewers); it's been a lot on my mind lately. Perhaps we can start another thread regarding that to leave this one intact (or even PM with your and/or CTS, if push comes to shove, though I'd rather have public conversations where everyone can participate).

I see Tolkien and his universe now (in my mid-30s), in a different way than I did in my early 20s when I first saw the films and read the books. I suppose that happens to many of Tolkien's readers (or the film's fans). As I'm just a few weeks older than Elijah Wood, perhaps knowing the star was my own age (though Frodo's character wasn't) gave the films/stories an additional meaning to me they might not have had otherwise.

I wonder what the films' own actors thought or think now regarding many aspects of Tolkien's universe, in retrospect?

Re: Elves stories?

Hi again kjnics;
I agree about starting another thread for an OT discussion which might get deleted by IMDb.

As for Tolkien's influence on other writers, the way he described his universe in such detail has been followed by many later fantasy and science fiction novel/media franchises with the emphasis on languages, consistency in terms of geography/climate and so on.

As for the thinking of Tolkien film actors, imo candid assessments are very rare because of the desire to work again in another big movie done by one of the major studios.
Viggo is that rarity where he is secure enough in doing very small films and speaks his mind.

Also reactions by involved film makers and actors are clouded by how the Hobbit films were developed where the studio treated the film makers very poorly in forcing a 3rd Hobbit film at the last minute.
The Tolkien film universe ended in a way like a bad dream and I think the people involved want to move on with their lives and not dwell on what was often an extremely unpleasant experience.

But in spite of my views, a Google search of the actors in the LOTR / Hobbit movies may turn up an interview with interesting tid bits about their views of Tolkien's world and their recollections of the filming of that world.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Elves stories?

Also reactions by involved film makers and actors are clouded by how the Hobbit films were developed where the studio treated the film makers very poorly in forcing a 3rd Hobbit film at the last minute.

The Tolkien film universe ended in a way like a bad dream and I think the people involved want to move on with their lives and not dwell on what was often an extremely unpleasant experience.


I paid so little attention to the Hobbit movies I even forget the release dates and which title belonged to which. However, I do feel somewhat reassured knowing it was less Jackson's fault and more the avaricious studios that rushed the making of those films (and expanded them from two to three). His frank interview from last year explains the messy way they were made pretty well.

(You've likely seen it already, but I just found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkygZdZ_Vk).

Other than that, the reasons for Del Toro's departure still seem somewhat vague and mysterious to me. I looked up one or two of the interviews made to him, but most are from 2010 and the reasons still seem rather unclear. Something about MGM having gone bankrupt, lack of support for starting production, etc? Perhaps the studios were also somewhat to blame there.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi6sW3rT5KA)

Re: Elves stories?

Hi kjnics;

"His frank interview from last year explains the messy way they were made pretty well.

(You've likely seen it already, but I just found it:"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkygZdZ_Vk

I've seen Vlogs from the Desolation of Smaug Blu-Ray with these themes; no script to guide the film makers, an overworked crew and frustration. This problem due to the last minute addition of a 3rd Hobbit movie of course spilled over to the filming of The Five Armies.

"Other than that, the reasons for Del Toro's departure still seem somewhat vague and mysterious to me. I looked up one or two of the interviews made to him, but most are from 2010 and the reasons still seem rather unclear."

Film makers are not going to be completely candid, as I mentioned before, due to the desire to not piss off the major studios.

Wikipedia has a lengthy article about the production development of the Hobbit movies and the massive problems involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit_(film_series)#Development

The mess of legal issues, labor problems, lack of funding all led to many delays and that eventually resulted in Del Toro leaving the project.
This became a tedious situation for Jackson and maybe Del Toro could see more problems that would lay ahead.
- Ultimately whoever the director was, that person would not have control of the final cut of the film(s).
The director was at the mercy of the studios who had been bickering for years about this project.
- The studio decision to push for 3 films at the last minute had the overarching directive of; accuracy with the book(s) is not the main focus and instead just make 3 movies which will bring in the most money.
This showed the Hollywood system as it has become today; an assembly line of big budget, CGI loaded, simple action entertainment.

In today's reality of what is popular in theaters I doubt that a more artistic series of films, like Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, could be made in the present studio business environment.
For LOTR fans we are lucky with what we got with the first trilogy.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Elves stories?

In a perfect world, pre-production would have started the day after the first DVD release of ROTK was made, and shooting in mid-to-late 2005. Lay the foundation, and them make the film: it worked the first time!

Look- it's trying to think!

Re: Elves stories?

by CTS-1;

"In a perfect world, pre-production would have started the day after the first DVD release of ROTK was made, and shooting in mid-to-late 2005. Lay the foundation, and them make the film: it worked the first time!"

Yes, in our imaginations we could envision how The Hobbit movies could have been much better.

Instead Jackson wanted to do King Kong right after LOTR (which had several problems imo).
Then MGM couldn't agree with New Line (Warner Brothers) for years.
Peter in those days was in a legal battle with Warner Brothers over compensation.
Later there were the labor disputes.
And very importantly, whoever the director was for the Hobbit project, that person never got control over the final cut.
Instead the studios had the option to meddle with every step which they did in the worst way including having the last minute 3rd film idea to grab more cash.

Sure, I could imagine a 'perfect world' as you describe. I agree it could have worked.
Instead I'm sort of reminded of Marlon Brando's last words in "Apocalypse Now"...
"The horror."

OK, not really that bad. The Hobbit movies are just mediocre, over done CGI action movies, with over the top kiddie humor and a very awkward young adult romance thrown in.
Every button to get more people in the theaters was pushed. That's not really horrible. It's more like 2010s typical action / YA romance fare.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Elves stories?

I watched La La Land last night and Collateral Beauty the week before.

Needless to say, I was underwhelmed. After watching Hemingway and Gellhorn (the first half of this HBO movie was decent, regarding the Spanish Civil War), etc., I feel sometimes with other films I'm watching Batman & Robin. Spectacle (an assault on the five senses) with little substance. Emma Stone is decent, but Ryan Gosling... eh, one or two of his roles aside (Blue Valentine), is he that great of an actor?

(And Collateral Beauty was beyond cloying and saccharine; Will Smith, whom I've liked before, engaged in some New Agey Paulo Coelho-type fable full of dull bromides).

No wonder Mortensen, Wood, etc. have skipped boat to indie films, Spanish films or back to the stage (like Boyd, etc.); and kudos to them. Blockbusters are rather soulless these days. (Even the 2007 Hairspray, which isn't CTS' favorite version, had a bit more love and reverence for Baltimore than 2016' La La Land did for LA).

I hope it's a phase; these soulless blockbusters (I haven't seen Matt Damon's Great Wall, but I can only imagine) only have so much appeal. I feel like the studios on or near Wiltshire Blvd. have abandoned art for lucre, more than ever.

Re: Elves stories?

Hi kjnics;

"La La Land... Emma Stone is decent, but Ryan Gosling... eh, one or two of his roles aside (Blue Valentine), is he that great of an actor?"

I feel your discomfort.
I haven't seen "La La Land" in spite of the Golden Globes it has received.
It's a romance / musical. Do I want to see that with Ryan Gosling?
The last musical / romance / comedy I saw was "Everyone Says I Love You" (from Woody Allen) which had Edward Norton.
- What I see in a movie like this is a low key method actor, who was fine in "Birdman", trying to be Gene Kelly.
Gosling is fine in something like "Drive" or "Blue Valentine", method actor roles. I don't see a budding Fred Astaire there.

"And Collateral Beauty was beyond cloying and saccharine;"

- "Collateral Beauty" as I understand, is about someone going through tragedy and learning how to cope. Sounds pretty close to my life!
Maybe too close.

"I feel sometimes with other films I'm watching Batman & Robin. Spectacle (an assault on the five senses) with little substance."
"Blockbusters are rather soulless these days."

"Batman and Robin", ugh, I can't even finish that thing.
As for recent big budget superhero films, I very much agree with you.
So many blockbuster superhero movies today are made to fit the same standard formula.
Since you mentioned Batman, "Batman v Superman" attempted to break out of the typical, simple Marvel hero / comedy formula somewhat but the studio meddled with it so much that the director needed to put out his own version (on Blu-Ray) which explained several crucial scenes better.
The studios are chasing Disney Marvel with its silliness, irrational situations and forgettable soundtracks.

What to do? I may check out "Hidden Figures" later this month in a theater.
"Silence" from Scorsese I'm not sure about since it also seems pretty tragic. We'll see.

So far of the 21 movies I've seen that were released in 2016, "Arrival" was probably the best for my taste but I'm not enthusiastic about it. "Arrival" has another tragic story.

For Harry Potter fans, or at least those interested in that fictional world, "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them'' was alright.
Not great. But not too irritating.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Elves stories?

which other volumes apart from X would you and/or CTS most recommend for those who haven't read them (since they are numerous)?

I would say that, after X, XI and XII are the ones with the most immediate appeal to a new HoME reader. I would say XII is marginally more interesting to someone coming at it new, because of "The New Shadow," an abandoned story featuring one of Beregond's sons as protagonist.

After that, Vol. IX, which has an interesting early version of Akallabeth, and an ultimately abandoned attempt to tie in Middle-Earth to our current world (The Notion Club Papers).

Look- it's trying to think!

Re: Elves stories?

Thanks for the heads up, CTS; taking on three volumes to start off with is less daunting than tackling 10+.

Re: Elves stories?

An illustrated version of Beren and Lúthien comes out in May 2017. Illustrated once again by Alan Lee. :)

Re: Elves stories?

Thank you everyone, I will check those out. I've finally ordered Silmarillion, waiting for it to come in the mail.
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