Politics : Wow, this open carry test shows how crazy things are in the US

Hey I know statistically blacks commit a lot more crimes.

But seriously the difference between how a white guy legally allowed to open carry, and how he's treated to a black guy is just scary. I'm surprised the black guy even shot this vid, he was probably would have gotten shot if a cop was trigger happy.

Hillary lost

Am I supposed to care?

That is a Hispanic/Filipino man. Not black.

He looked pretty black to me. Just a light shade.

Not black at all. From his own lips:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAmZ95xPik0

He's black you House niqqa

Then why does he claim otherwise you dumb niqqa? He clearly states that he is a Hispanic/Filipino man in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAmZ95xPik0

Of course that's still blacker than you, you fake ass wannabe.

You are a joke. I would son your punk ass with the swiftness.

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Hey I know statistically blacks commit a lot more crimes.

But seriously the difference between how a white guy legally allowed to open carry, and how he's treated to a black guy is just scary. I'm surprised the black guy even shot this vid, he was probably would have gotten shot if a cop was trigger happy.

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The one guy with dreads..Still kinda looks whiteBut hey Blacks statistically commit more crimes and have a penchant for gun violence..Also, carrying an AR is pretty abnormal and the situation they put the 2nd guy in is completely different with a different cop

You would really need to focus on aggregate data if you wanted to demonstrate anything conclusively because this one disparate example is just that. One example. Not necessarily indicative of anything broader. It could quite easily represent cherry picking. For example, if one found an example of a white person handled roughly versus a black person handled mildly and combined them into a youtube video, would that prove anything? Of course not.

Not to mention there are so many other variables not controlled in that video. Such as different police officers. Unless you think all police officers act the same. Different cities.

Sure it COULD be cherry picking. But that's the third video I've seen of white people open carrying getting nothing done to them. One guy even stood outside a school but off school property. The school called the police and the guy just said he was doing nothing just exercising his right to carry.

No matter how you want to interpret I'm just glad I don't live in a developed country that's not ridiculous like the US.

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I'm just glad I don't live in a developed country that's not ridiculous

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What?

Typo on my phone. Couldn't correct it.

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Sure it COULD be cherry picking.

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That's why it only makes sense to focus on aggregate data to preclude the possibility that it could represent cherry-picking.

I doubt there's data on how many blacks open carry AR-15s. Since no one is crazy enough to do it in broad daylight. They'll either be criminals hiding it, or dead. The guy in that video was exceptionally brave or stupid just running that little experiment.

Some of the things you guys even need to debate about is just stupid. Especially when reality is staring you guys in the face.

America is a damn racist country, I don't get why you guys have such a hard time accepting that. It's like how you guys blow up and invade a bunch of countries then call yourselves the good guys. You're not the good guys, you invade countries for your own self interests no different from Russia.

Just deal with reality. Blacks commit more crimes than whites, but blacks with guns get shot in the US by cops period. Even blacks without guns get shot. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. It's an exclusively US problem.

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America is a damn racist country, I don't get why you guys have such a hard time accepting that.

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It's sorta like how people from other countries refuse to accept that we're a country that doesn't want to be like many others.

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You're not the good guys, you invade countries for your own self interests no different from Russia.

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So here you are supporting President Trump.

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I doubt there's data on how many blacks open carry AR-15s. Since no one is crazy enough to do it in broad daylight. They'll either be criminals hiding it, or dead. The guy in that video was exceptionally brave or stupid just running that little experiment.

Some of the things you guys even need to debate about is just stupid. Especially when reality is staring you guys in the face.

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http://allnewspipeline.com/images/opencarry.jpg
http://allnewspipeline.com/images/opencarry.jpg

http://cdn.alternativemediasyndicate.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/s-Saints-Facebook-800x430.png
http://cdn.alternativemediasyndicate.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/s-Saints-Facebook-800x430.png

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/04/lee-gunclub.jpg
http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/04/lee-gunclub.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a6/a6/34/a6a634808aa1d761e66d58a63550077d.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a6/a6/34/a6a634808aa1d761e66d58a63550077d.jpg

http://www.usnews.com/cmsmedia/53/cd933bc9d74bcdd96f287d6fab05dd/28386open_carry_gun_120425.jpg
http://www.usnews.com/cmsmedia/53/cd933bc9d74bcdd96f287d6fab05dd/28386open_carry_gun_120425.jpg

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Just deal with reality. Blacks commit more crimes than whites, but blacks with guns get shot in the US by cops period. Even blacks without guns get shot. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. It's an exclusively US problem.

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The protests in France come as the Black Lives Matter movement takes on an international dimension. Recent protests have been held in the UK , Canada and Germany , with minority communities all voicing similar concerns regarding the treatment of black and brown bodies.

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Pls don't link anything from Breitbart. It just shows how *beep* stupid some Americans are reading that sh!t.

Sometimes I find it funny. I live in a totally peaceful society where most people are intelligent (Taiwan). No one dies from gun violence or cops like ever, even though cops have guns.

Then whenever I debate US politics it's like an alternate reality. You guys really are a moronic nation with some unique problems other developed countries don't have. The fact you're even trying to indicate that Europe has a BLM issue like the US just shows you know jack sh!t about Europe.

Most of you guys have never traveled, and have no knowledge about anything outside of US culture. So spare me the links.

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Most of you guys have never traveled, and have no knowledge about anything outside of US culture. So spare me the links.

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Preparing for CF to be pwned in 3..2.1

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Pls don't link anything from Breitbart. It just shows how *beep* stupid some Americans are reading that sh!t.

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They are just pictures of black people open peacefully open carrying, without any issues. I run across that often enough around here. I'm not a fan of it, especially as a cop, but it's legal, so I deal with it.

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Sometimes I find it funny. I live in a totally peaceful society where most people are intelligent (Taiwan). No one dies from gun violence or cops like ever, even though cops have guns.

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OK? I bet it would be different if you dropped them in one of our crime infested drug/gang war-zone neighborhoods. At least that's what the foreign officers say after I give them a ride along. That's also what I noticed in a few very dangerous French neighborhoods.

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Then whenever I debate US politics it's like an alternate reality. You guys really are a moronic nation with some unique problems other developed countries don't have. The fact you're even trying to indicate that Europe has a BLM issue like the US just shows you know jack sh!t about Europe.

Most of you guys have never traveled, and have no knowledge about anything outside of US culture. So spare me

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So basically you're telling us about our country that you don't even live in? I've spent time as a UN investigator in a Eastern European Country, and have done a lot of cross training/ride alongs with Western European LEOs(as well as other parts of the globe. Not only have I traveled abroad in a professional capacity(military/LEO/contractor), but I've also traveled a lot with my Korean wife, through a good bit of Asia. But I'll spare you. I'll just post for the other members.

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OK? I bet it would be different if you dropped them in one of our crime infested drug/gang war-zone neighborhoods. At least that's what the foreign officers say after I give them a ride along. That's also what I noticed in a few very dangerous French neighborhoods.

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Like I said, US problem. Glad most developed countries don't have that problem. France certainly has gotten bad.

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So basically you're telling us about our country that you don't even live in? I've spent time as a UN investigator in a Eastern European Country, and have done a lot of cross training/ride alongs with Western European LEOs(as well as other parts of the globe. Not only have I traveled abroad in a professional capacity(military/LEO/contractor), but I've also traveled a lot with my Korean wife, through a good bit of Asia. But I'll spare you. I'll just post for the other members.

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Ok, fair enough. The average guy on this board knows nothing about most of the countries they're talking about yet talk about it.

Colion Noir




Some lives matter.

This in today's news:

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French president visits man 'raped with police baton' as suburban tensions simmer
news.france@thelocal.com
8 February 2017
10:45 CET+01:00

The French government on Tuesday sought to calm growing anger over the alleged rape of a man during his arrest in a Paris suburb last week, following a third night of violent clashes with police.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20170208/french-president-visits-man-raped-with-police-baton-as-suburban-tensions-simmer
http://www.thelocal.fr/20170208/french-president-visits-man-raped-with-police-baton-as-suburban-tensions-simmer

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Yes? Still a lot safer in France then in US.

NO DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE / WASHINGTON RACISTS

Totally depends on the neighborhood, and that's a fact. You like "Vice". Check out the "Noisey" episode that focuses on French rap stars. Every MFR in those neighborhoods they profile, pulls out an illegal gun to show the camera.

Do you remember that audit ordered by France's government that showed crimes in Paris were played down under former president Nicolas Sarkozy to make the capital appear safer?

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Paris police authorities systematically wiped tens of thousands of crimes from their books as part of a decade-long cover up to make the capital seem safer than it was, according to explosive new government data.

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And it is the suburbs of Paris that are the real war-zones.

Paris is a huge tourist destination, I've been there. It has the usual problems of a huge tourist place, some pickpocketing, rowdy behaviour by drunk tourists etc. Still it doesnt' have the kind of gun violence that US has.

NO DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE / WASHINGTON RACISTS

AGAIN, it is the S=U-B-U-R-B-S of Paris that are the real war-zones. Of course the main the main tourist areas of Paris are safe, but there are many dangerous/scary neighborhood in the Paris area, but they're in the "suburbs".

There's a little over a million people in the delimited area, but outside Paris you have a belt of many cities that forms the Paris suburbs. Paris + suburbs = nearly 9 millions people. These are the areas that the Parisian officers took me. The districts classified as "sensitive urban zones". Not that touristy sh!t. Places like St Denis, La Courneuve, or Mantes-la-Jolie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xskdb-Ckw78

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=557_1474552714
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=557_1474552714

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=04f_1452103738
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=04f_1452103738

Here's a map of poverty of the Paris urban area. Green areas are the richest, purple zone have more poverty:

http://41.img.v4.skyrock.net/8433/43418433/pics/1755471382_small_1.jpg
http://41.img.v4.skyrock.net/8433/43418433/pics/1755471382_small_1.jpg

When I was in Marseille, on the other hand, I was actually told by the officers that I couldnt even go into certain areas.

These officers showed me rooms that were literally full of confiscated weapons. And the difference between a lot of their weapons and ours, was they confiscated a lot of full-automatic hardware.

Hey thanks for that link to Viceland, Jpat. I'd forgotten about that channel. There's some pretty good stuff. I'm watching the Vice one about the growth of gun ownership in Canada right now. I also remember searching not to long ago for something to add to a discussion and seeing how firearms ownership has also been going up in the UK, Australia, and one of the Scandinavian countries iirc.

I also just watched the short video about Pangolins. Those things are so darn cool and cute, I can't stand that they're hunted for their meat.

I never once offered an opinion indicating what I believe the aggregate data, if available, would bear out. In other words, I'm not denying anything.

I just pointed out that your thread is not based on sound logic because you have not precluded the potential of cherry picking involved in your one example.

You seemed to acknowledge that, but then dismiss it regardless which just tells me you are willing to use logical fallacies to wrongly support your beliefs.

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Blacks commit more crimes than whites, but blacks with guns get shot in the US by cops period. Even blacks without guns get shot. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. It's an exclusively US problem.

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Better here. You are finally focusing on aggregate data. Granted, you have not supported those assertions (not to mention it reads a little nonsensical) but your focus is in the right direction.

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I just pointed out that your thread is not based on sound logic because you have not precluded the potential of cherry picking involved in your one example.

You seemed to acknowledge that, but then dismiss it regardless which just tells me you are willing to use logical fallacies to wrongly support your beliefs.

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Oh I get your argument. I'm just saying:

1) You won't get that data since no one's going to risk getting shot to provide that data.

2) Some things are so obvious to see. It's like on one thread I said Americans are fat. Someone told me to prove it. Why? Just walk down the friggin street. You guys are friggin enormous.

Like 2/3 of people are fat and I need to provide evidence. Why?

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2) Some things are so obvious to see. It's like on one thread I said Americans are fat. Someone told me to prove it. Why? Just walk down the friggin street. You guys are friggin enormous.

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Because the street you were walking down might be an outlier. You know, there might be an All-You-Can-Eat special at Denny's happening at that very moment.

Or your cognitive biases might be drawn towards noticing the fatties. In such that you take special note of them, but ignore the thin people - and effectively trick yourself into believing they are more numerous than they really are.

That's why you should focus on the aggregate data. It tends not to trick and to limit the possibilities of cherry picking, outliers, cognitive bias or whatnot unduly influencing reality.

And for the aggregate data:

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The U.S. obesity epidemic continues to worsen: The latest reports show that 40 percent of U.S. women are obese, and American teenagers are also continuing to put on weight.

The two reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that efforts to encourage Americans to lose weight at least to stop putting on more weight are having little effect.


Overall, 38 percent of U.S. adults are obese and 17 percent of teenagers are, the two reports find.

That's obese medically defined as having a body mass index (BMI), a measure of height to weight, that's more than 30. Another third or so of Americans are overweight.

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Yes, we are friggin enormous.

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Because the street you were walking down might be an outlier. You know, there might be an All-You-Can-Eat special at Denny's happening at that very moment.

Or your cognitive biases might be drawn towards noticing the fatties. In such that you take special note of them, but ignore the thin people - and effectively trick yourself into believing they are more numerous than they really are.

That's why you should focus on the aggregate data. It tends not to trick and to limit the possibilities of cherry picking, outliers, cognitive bias or whatnot unduly influencing reality.

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No, I'm pretty sure I walked down half of Hawaii, the West coast, Colorado, and the East Coast and there were so many fat people my mind was blown. The outliers were the times when I DIDN'T see a single fat person.

You guys are so fat now, OBESE in your minds is fat.You go to any other country in say Asia, the average American would be fat there. But in America, what's fat in the rest of the world is seen as normal.

I don't really need data. You guys are abnormal. I don't even have to debate about cops shooting people in Asia. It almost never happens. Like in Taiwan maybe one person dies to a cop a year out of a 20 million population and that guy was probably crazy, trying to run people over in a car.

The only reason I even get to debate these things with you is because what's abnormal elsewhere is normal in the US.

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No, I'm pretty sure I walked down half of Hawaii, the West coast, Colorado, and the East Coast and there were so many fat people my mind was blown. The outliers were the times when I DIDN'T see a single fat person.

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That's because the aggregate data supports notion that fat people are basically the majority nowadays.

And, once again, that's why you ought to focus on aggregate data. Not this unsound notion of yours to continue to argue that anecdotal evidence proves anything conclusively.

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And, once again, that's why you ought to focus on aggregate data. Not this unsound notion of yours to continue to argue that anecdotal evidence proves anything conclusively.

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Ok, so if you were in Nigeria and everyone you saw was black and you said "In Nigeria the people are black" and someone called you out for using anecdotal evidence. You'll be totally cool with that?

You have to be blind if you don't think Americans are fat.

You can look at my post above TheNcredibleEdibleEgg, and see pictures of African Americans open carrying. Like I stated before, I cringe when I see it, but it does happen.

The open carry militant type advocates (the ones who go out to get a reaction) are definitely misguided in nature. At least from my perspective.

They are never going to make people comfortable with the practice.

And more likely they are going to lead to laws limiting the practice. The opposite intent.

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The open carry militant type advocates (the ones who go out to get a reaction) are definitely misguided in nature. At least from my perspective.

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I respect their right, but I think it's counterproductive.

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They are never going to make people comfortable with the practice.

And more likely they are going to lead to laws limiting the practice. The opposite intent.

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This is dependent on location. Local and national politics. You will see a totally different national outlook on firearms over the next four years.

Example: A recently leaked ATF memo shows Pro-Gun considerations:

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1. New Federal Firearms License specifically for online and gun show sales. This would be the return of the kitchen counter FFL, allowing private citizens to enjoy all the benefits of a Federal Firearms License without actually needing to run a proper business. Ostensibly it would be used for those who dont have a retail location but still want to sell guns online and at gun shows, but reality is that it would be a way for every citizen to pay one licensing fee and have guns shipped straight to their door from the factory with no middleman (since the government already did a more thorough background check than any NICS check could do).
2. Redefinition of armor Piercing Ammunition. Companies making and importing ammunition that currently meets the definition of armor piercing such as lead free projectiles and the 7N6 ban from 2014 would be able to sell their wares once more without fear. It would also drive down the cost of ammo for Soviet surplus ammunition since the pipeline would once more be open.
3. Lifting the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, and M1911 Army Surplus Importation Ban. For years there has been a treasure trove of surplus M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, and M1911 handguns sitting in Korea waiting to be shipped back to the UnitedStates so that the CMP could sell these guns to the U.S. citizens at dirt cheap prices. The Obama administration blocked their importation citing concerns over gun violence. Overturning that decision would be quick and painless and make many a firearms collector very happy.
4. Eliminating Law Letter Requirements. If an FFL wants to get a machine gun manufactured after 1986 they need a letter from a local law enforcement agency requesting the gun for demonstration purposes. These law letters or demo letters are really just a time consuming formality keeping gun stores and FFL holders from buying machine guns. Elimination of this archaic requirement would allow new machine guns to be avalable to every FFL/SOT holder. Possibly including the new wave of kitchen counter FFL holders.
5. Reversing the decision on shouldering a pistol brace. A couple years back the ATF issued a series of confusing and conflicting rulings about whether it was illegal to shoulder a pistol arm brace such as the SB Tactical brace. Theres apparently quite a bit of energy being directed at reversing the ruling and once more enabling the mass shouldering of pistol arm braces.
6. Redefine Sporting Purposes. Theres a Chinese manufacturer that is making brand new M14 style rifles. They are plentiful in Canada but unavailable in the United States because, according to the law, they are not for sporting purposes and ineligible for importation. The folks behind this white paper seem to think that its high time we redefine what sporting purposes are. This might qualify things like 3-gun and other competition shooting activities as sporting and open the door for just about everything to be imported.
7. Make agency rulings searchable. Instead of relying on what opinion letters have been published on the internet, make those opinions publicly available and searchable so that everyone can see previous opinions and hold the ATF accountable.
8. Remove silencers from the NFA. This one isnt really possible to do from within the ATF, it would probably require Congress to act through the Hearing Protection Act. But support from the ATF goes a long way towards public acceptance of the idea.
9. Allow interstate firearms sales at gun shows. Right now gun stores can only sell guns to residents of their own state from locations within that states borders. If they want to visit a gun show across state lines they can only take orders and ship to a local FFL, not directly sell. The ATF wants to make it so that FFLs can travel from state to state and sell guns as they see fit.
10. Reclassify destructive devices. Right now both destructive device munitions and launcers are considered destructive devices and regulated just like silencers and machine guns, meaning every round of HE for your grenade launcher needs a serial number and its own Form 4. The ATF wants to make it so that only the launcher, not the munition, is considered the registered destructive device.
11. Raise the threshold for grey market records reporting. Right now any store that has more than 10 crime guns traced to it needs to do extra recording and reporting to the ATF of their used guns. The ATF wants to raise that threshold to lessen the strain on dealers.
12. Eliminate multiple gun reporting for border states. Right now, if you buy more than one AR-15 in a certain time period in Texas and other border states the ATF requires a special form to be sent detailing the sale. Its ostensibly to stop straw purchasers, but the success rate is low enough to be statistically zero. Eliminating that burden would help gun dealers.
13. Reduce record retention requirements. The ATF currently requires all 4473 forms to be kept for 20 years. Thats a bit much, dont you think? This proposal would reduce that burden on gun stores.
14. Allow NICS checks for non-gun purchases. You cant work in a gun store if you are prohibited form buying a gun. To figure out if an employee is disqualified the simplest way would be to have the store run a NICS check, but thats not allowed under the current law. Allowing background checks for employees would reduce the cost to hire new employees and make life easier for gun stores.


White Paper
(Not for public distribution)
Ronald Turk
Associate Deputy Director (Chief Operating Officer)
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)

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This is all happening because of Trump's election. The people at the top may be just trying to keep their jobs.

BMI is an awful indicator of anything.

Muscle is denser than fat. BMI can determine people as obese who simply aren't. They used to have three categories based on frame size, but they use a single one, now.

As a senior in high school, I was a wrestler and a soccer player. I weighed 170 pounds at 5'9" and was in fantastic shape. According to the BMI chart, I was overweight. Even though I was very lean, I am built like a tree stump and had very muscular legs and a thick frame.


If I were to get down to 165 lbs to be at a 'healthy' weight, according to BMI, I'd have to sever a limb.

Take anything using the BMI with a massive grain of salt.



Some lives matter.

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BMI is an awful indicator of anything.

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Yeah ok screw BMI. I would say the average American is probably around 30% bodyfat. Go google what that looks like and I would say for an average that's probably accurate. That's also fat.

You'd be basing that on your experience not living in this country.


So I'd consider your conclusions irrelevant.



Some lives matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

NO DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE / WASHINGTON RACISTS

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You'd be basing that on your experience not living in this country.


So I'd consider your conclusions irrelevant.

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74% of Americans are fat or obese. Every time I've visited America and I've been 3 times and traveled extensively all I could see were fat people everywhere.

You telling me Americans are not fat like a Nigerian telling me:

"You're basing your claim that Nigerians are black on your experience not living in this country.

So I'd consider your conclusions irrelevant"

Dude, it's not like rocket science that I'm talking about. AMERICANS BEING FAT IS HIGHLY VISIBLE!

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You would really need to focus on aggregate data if you wanted to demonstrate anything conclusively

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Don't tell that to all the dumbasses that flood the boards with single case crimes committed by minorities. They'd suddenly have a lot of extra time on their hands and it's not clear what they'd do with it.

I don't like the idea of open carry for myself. I prefer concealed carry.

Great, now do male versus female. Find out if America is a sexist country.

Two instances are not really a test. Different cops react differently. There are videos of white guys getting really bad treatment. Here is some particularly ugly treatment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-cvipwCcm8

Watch it to the end. They set him up pretty well.

A smart cop will approach the armed citizen carefully (ready to drop him on the spot) and assess him calmly without profanity, insults or felony stop procedures. In almost every case, the person will be an activist intent on proving that he has a right to bear arms. Not my cup of tea and it does rile up the more nervous among us but there is a right way to handle itand a wrong way.

Is there racial bias in policing? You may as well ask "Are police human?" Good cops set their biases aside.

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A smart cop will approach the armed citizen carefully (ready to drop him on the spot) and assess him calmly

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But how does a cop know who is armed? Concealed carry etc. So the USA cops have to approach every citizen 'ready to drop him on the spot' LOL. I wonder why the cops shoot so many people in USA!!

Asses him calmly? Like an Ocular patdown? Cool!



Thankfully in the UK we are not allowed to walk about carrying guns, (cos we are grown ups)so we don't have to deal with that level of bollox in our lives.


"I'll hit you with so many rights you'll be begging for a left."

Because you're grown ups.


Awesome.


Some lives matter.

My kids want to run around with their little nerf guns playing soldiersthe grown ups not so much.

I mean if you are actually a soldier in a war zone then absolutely fair enough, carry your guns around as they are needed but a fat Middle aged American walking around with an assault rifle and a hard onit looks pathetic.



"I'll hit you with so many rights you'll be begging for a left."