Mr Selfridge : Am I being too nitpicky?

Am I being too nitpicky?

Mr. Grove's kids are nearly grown, Gordon Selfridge has kids of his own - why don't the men seem to have aged much?

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

This seems, to me, too, to be taking poetic license too far. If season four opens in 1928, Harry Selfridge would be seventy! Jeremy Piven seems to be playing a dashing 45 year old. No matter how many "at our age" remarks the cast makes, it feels like a cop out to vanity to me.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Do you really want them wearing make up to look older?

They did that in J.Edgar and it was laughable.

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Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Not extreme makeup, but at seventy, he should have much grayer hair, one could expect him to have some padding around the middle to make him look heavier, and he could act the rest, perhaps changing his posture a bit, walking a little slower, etc. If you read the history of Harry Selfridge, the picture of his final years at the store have him seem much sadder, even a little pathetic, with the Dolly Sisters and others leading him around by his nose for what he could give them. The Hollywoodized portrayal of the man by Piven doesn't give us much sympathy at all. Here's a picture of him in the twenties or thirties. See what I mean. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/27/article-2269266-13CBD300000005DC-479_634x472.jpg

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?


at seventy, he should have much grayer hair


That is pure heredity - I will be seventy in May, and my hair is still the same dishwater brown it has been all my life, while my former father-in-law went snow white in his twenties. (And Harry was egotistical enough to resort to dye to maintain an illusion of youth.)

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?


If season four opens in 1928, Harry Selfridge would be seventy! Jeremy Piven seems to be playing a dashing 45 year old.


I was thinking the same thing. The years go on and none of the men age. That was the same distraction in 'Downton Abbey'. Years went but, but none of them looked older.



I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News. - B.Streisand






Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

If he's 70, he's definitely too old to keep following his hoo-ha around with those irritating Dollies.


Roland, that's a lilac bush!

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

are you a millennial?

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Bwahahaha!!! You've made my day. Let's just say I'm close enough to 70 to know from whence I speak.

>>are you a millennial?<<

No, but my son is. I know that 70 is the new 50, now, but in the 20s, somebody who was 70 years old was teetering on the edge. And remember, there was no Viagra back then.

Like somebody said earlier, they're representing Harry as somebody who is about 45-50.


Roland, that's a lilac bush!

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Have you seen an actual photograph of Harry Selfridge? He Was 51 when he first opened Selfridge's in 1909. I know Wikipedia is not where you should depend too much on accuracy but the picture of him in 1910 of him at 52 is real. Anecdotal references of the fact that you, yourself, approaching 70yo are not grey means nothing. I myself will be 60 at the end of April and my hair is very grey. Why should we assume Mr Selfridge shouldn't be grey because you're not grey ? Look at historical photos Selfridge and then tell us he isn't grey because you (and Ronald Reagan) have grown more gracfully than the rest of us.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Why should we assume Mr Selfridge should be grey because you are?

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Because he was very grey in real life. Have you actually seen a photograph of the real Harry Selfridge or perhaps you prefer the hollywoodized version of all historical figures.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2210421/Mr-Selfridge-Extraordinary-story-retailing-visionary-revealed.html

Maybe you should read the book from which the series is based on, Shopping, Seduction & Mr. Selfridge by Lindy Woodhead. It has many pictures of Selfridge at the time this season takes place. Including the very dark haired, Hungarian born, Dolly Sisters. The series differs a bit from the real life of Mr Selfridge.

Don't get me wrong, I really like this show, a lot, despite all its flaws, including Jeremy Piven, he is wonderful in his role. I was just responding to the OP. I'm just disappointed in the depiction of the Dolly Sisters and the fact that Jeremy Piven has absolutely no grey hair despite his age. Again, I like the show and will be sad when it ends.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

I have read the book, and I have seen numerous pictures of Selfridge - back February I posted a link to a picture of him with Violkette: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2310212/board/nest/253909285

And I do know that his hair was gray - my quibble was with the apparent assumption that his hair must have been gray because of his age. His hair was gray because that was his heredity, as opposed to being bald or any other hair-growth pattern he could have inherited, but not just because he was seventy.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

I am glad you have read the books and have seen he was very grey haired. So it seems appearently you and most advocate the hollywoodized version of historical figures, this explains the blonde American accented Dolly Sisters. I'm glad that's been cleared up. Thanks.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

I am not contradicting my original post when I say that although a tv show or movie is based on real characters and historical events, it is still a dramatic representation of events, not a documentary. I think it's fine to change some of the details. But when the internal logic of the show is wrong, that is what causes me to complain. Whether he is grey or not grey is irrelevant - it's that he isn't PLAYING it any older.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Thank you, those were my sentiments exactly. I was only responding to those who thought his lack of grey hair was hereditary. Your point is spot on about that Piven's character doesn't show any sight of age at all, whilst those around him age, I'm curious to see how he will be portrayal in the end. Again, I really like Mr Selfridge and will sorry to see it go.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?


Why should we assume Mr Selfridge should be grey because you are?


If you could get someone to help you sound out the rest of the post in question, you would learn that there is PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE. The only person projecting and making assumptions based on their own narcissistic sense of self is, I'm sure as usual, you.


Movies are IQ tests; the IMDB boards are how people broadcast their score.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Exactly! It didn't need to be old age makeup, just some visual indication that time has passed for these characters.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

They've really got time messed up this series. Wikipedia says the provencial stores were opened in 1926. But in the show, Gordon says he's been working at them for 10 years. So that would make it 1936. Harry loses control of the business in 1941. So if it's 1936,Harry should be 78 years old which he clearly is not. Also, Wikipedia says his mother died in 1924. So, yeah, the dates are all messed up.

It also doesn't seem like enough time has past for Mr Grove's oldest child with his second wife to be 18. That's right? He didn't have any kids with his first wife right?

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

I'm replying to myself to do math. If it's 1936, it's been 27 years since the store opened. If it's 1924, it's only been 15 years since the store opened.

I'm guessing they mean for it to be closer to 1936 amd just have Piven's age WAY WAY off. He's not playing a 78 year old man.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

I thought this season opened in 1928. Where is everyone getting 1924 and 1936 from? I might have missed something.

I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News. - B.Streisand







Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

I'm getting the time from the actual real life events + dialog. But nothing is really matching up. Like I said above, in real life, the provincial stores were opened in 1926. In one of the scenes of the show, Gordon says he's been running them for 10 years. If that's all true, it would be 1936. But if it's 1936, Harry would be 78 years old.

So, the writers of the show have got everything jumbled up.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?


It also doesn't seem like enough time has past for Mr Grove's oldest child with his second wife to be 18. That's right? He didn't have any kids with his first wife right?


Mr Grove had all the older kids with his first wife. After she died, he married Doris, I think that's her name, and she had young Ernest, the little blond haired boy. He is not 18. He is the youngster Mr and Mrs Crabbe dote on with hand knit sweaters and toys. Mr Grove is not the biological father of Ernest, a fact he found out shortly before her tragic accidental death.

"Sympathy doesn't butter the parsnips." - Mrs. Patmore

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Weong - Roger had NO children with his chronically-ill first wife (one reason he used on Josie to elicit her sympathies and willingness to sleep with a married man) and then threw her over when wife #1 kicked for a younger model who could give him children

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Yes, you are correct, I am wrong. I did look up past episodes and it does say Mr Grove was worried about not having an heir and thought Doris would provide that. Sorry, I apologize.

"Sympathy doesn't butter the parsnips." - Mrs. Patmore

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Time has been compressed or changed for dramatic purposes.

It is 1928 in season four. The first season was set in 1908-09, the second in 1914-15, and the third in 1918-19.

Mr Grove married Doris towards the end of S1 and they'd already had the four redheaded children when S2 began. So it's correct for Meryl to be 18 in 1928 if she was born in 1910.

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Dramatic license is one thing, but this show was mainly fiction. Harry did not leave the company until 1939 (or 1941, according to some sources), rather than 1929. The producers squandered an opportunity to work in the mounting chance of war, just so they could produce the soap opera crap with Jimmy Dillon and Madame Rennard, who seems to have based upon Syrie Wellcome Maugham, who was an interior designer, as well as having been married to pharmaceutical magnate Henry Wellcome and the novelist W. Somerset Maugham. Their affair was apparently not long-lived, unlike the affair between Harry and Mae. Given the real Harry ended his days in penury in a flat, where he lived with Rosalie, having Harry walk out of the store in triumph and seemingly ride into the sunset with Mae is just pure Hollywood, which always rings false and unsatisfying. The real Harry was not forced into retirement until he was in his 80s, which seems far more dramatic.

Such stupid, lazy writing has become all too familiar, and it certainly creates bloated, silly productions. I find Piven an irritating scene-chewer. Depicting the Dolly sisters as frothy American blonds seems absurd; there is plenty of drama in the real sisters, who were dark Hungarian beauties. They could be likened to the Gabor sisters. Selfridge's decline took place during the Depression (mainly the 1930s), so having all those 20s costumes continue so long is also incorrect. Production decisions seem to reflect a fixation upon fashions, rather than the characters. The whole thing felt far too contrived and forced. Harry seemed cartoonish, while his children felt rather two-dimensional.

I watched this series casually because I never cared about the shallow characters, with the exception of Miss Mardle, the Groves, the Crabbes, the Towlers and Henri. Rosalie could have been an amazing character, had they depicted her as the strong, successful in her own right, woman she truly was. The Selfridges bored me, and they should not have done so, given their real-life exploits. Yet another opportunity squandered by the reductive fools who seem to dominate what was once a proud tradition of British drama.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops!

Re: Am I being too nitpicky?

Selfridge was actually divested of his job in 1941 when he was 83. The tv show makes it seem as if it happened at the time of the store's 20th anniversary, in 1929. I guess they have their reasons for changing history.
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