Schindler's List : Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Spielberg wanted to make a Frank Capra movie about the Holocaust but with grittiness and realistic violence. Did he pull it off? Only time will tell.
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I am not familiar with Frank Capra, but know of the term "Capraesque". Would you mind filling me in a little here with this intention of Spielberg?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Frank Capra's movies were very heavy handed and sentimental to the point movie critics after a while started deriding him for it. His movies had some really dark stuff in them but ultimately would be about the hero overcoming it, I think he's saying Spielberg wanted a triumphant movie about the holocaust just like Capra would do it, one where you actually leave the theatre feeling hopeful or reassured.
Capra's movies are absolutely brilliant by the way so don't be put off by him being used as if his films were bad (not saying that poster was though but others do sometimes give that impression), I'd recommend watching "It's A Wonderful Life" and "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" if you haven't already seen them, I'm not saying they're his best but they're great starter movies for people to introduce them to his work but he did so many great films.
Capra's movies are absolutely brilliant by the way so don't be put off by him being used as if his films were bad (not saying that poster was though but others do sometimes give that impression), I'd recommend watching "It's A Wonderful Life" and "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" if you haven't already seen them, I'm not saying they're his best but they're great starter movies for people to introduce them to his work but he did so many great films.
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Thank you for that explanation.
I am not a Jimmy Stewart fan and have never bothered with Wonderful Life for that reason.
I don't come away from Schindler's List feeling that hopeful or reassured, especially when one factors into the equation the Israeli vs Palestinian conflict that came after.
I felt more assured coming out of Platoon - '86.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
I am not a Jimmy Stewart fan and have never bothered with Wonderful Life for that reason.
I don't come away from Schindler's List feeling that hopeful or reassured, especially when one factors into the equation the Israeli vs Palestinian conflict that came after.
I felt more assured coming out of Platoon - '86.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Maybe try "Lost Horizon" "Arsenic and Old Lace" or "It Happened One Night" those are great Capra movies without Jimmy Stewart in them.
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I tried to watch Arsenic and Old Lace several years ago. I lost interest after half and hour. I found it a bit goofy and even potty. I may need to venture in again.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I haven't seen that movie in ages. I can't even remember if I liked it or not. I think the basic storyline has potential.
I believe Cary Grant stars as the nephew.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
I believe Cary Grant stars as the nephew.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I liked the sound of it and its a black comedy. He has two dotty aunts, but the humor just seemed too forced and old-fashioned for me to really connect with it.
If you venture in and get to the end, I would love to hear your thoughts.
"I Vitelloni" is still resonating with me.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
If you venture in and get to the end, I would love to hear your thoughts.
"I Vitelloni" is still resonating with me.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
"I Vitelloni" is still resonating with me.
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That's great, Toasty! I love it when a movie stays with me afterwards. Nice!
I like the movie very much.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
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That's great, Toasty! I love it when a movie stays with me afterwards. Nice!
I like the movie very much.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
It was compelling, the characters were interesting and it was visually strong in beautiful b&w.
Will do Nights Of Cabiria as my next Fellini at your request again.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Will do Nights Of Cabiria as my next Fellini at your request again.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
One thing that I love about certain European films is that you get such a strong feeling for the location. You certainly get in "I Vitelloni" and "Rocco and His Brothers" and "The 400 Blows", etc. So many great French and Italian movies from the 50s and 60s.
I haven't seen "Nights in Cabiria" in a long time. I remember Giulietta Masina was very touching in it. I will be anxious to hear your impressions!
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
I haven't seen "Nights in Cabiria" in a long time. I remember Giulietta Masina was very touching in it. I will be anxious to hear your impressions!
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I'm not a Jimmy Stewart fan, either. The basic concept of IAWL is a really sweet one and that alone makes the film watchable. By the same token, JS made the otherwise brilliant "Rear Window" less entertaining for me and that is saying something.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I like Rear Window more for Grace Kelly. She was just stunning.
Stewart was a popular though with fans and he was a shrewd casting choice by Hitchcock. People would have seen the film because he was in it.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Stewart was a popular though with fans and he was a shrewd casting choice by Hitchcock. People would have seen the film because he was in it.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Of the three main characters, Thelma Ritter is my favorite. But, yes, Grace Kelly was stunning. Oddly enough, I prefer her in "Dial M For Murder" than here. "M" is my second favorite Hitchcock film, after "Psycho". And it was the first AH film I ever saw. Ray Milland is wonderful in the villain role and I love the one room set. I would live in that room in a minute!
Stewart's popular appeal completely eludes me. He is so over the top with his cornpone shtick, it makes me want to ralph. And he has less than zero sex appeal.
Even though I am not a fan of "North by Northwest", at least Cary Grant was charming.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Stewart's popular appeal completely eludes me. He is so over the top with his cornpone shtick, it makes me want to ralph. And he has less than zero sex appeal.
Even though I am not a fan of "North by Northwest", at least Cary Grant was charming.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
He is so over the top with his cornpone shtick, it makes me want to ralph. And he has less than zero sex appeal.
Yes, he just doesn't hold the charm or sexiness that actors like Grant, Hudson and even Rod Taylor exuded for me. I really enjoy watching Taylor in The Birds.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I liked Rod Taylor in "The Birds" as well. He is quite handsome.
"The Birds" is my 3rd favorite AH movie. And it's another movie where Veronica Cartwright gives the best performance (imo).
I love Rock Hudson. He had great looks and seemed like a nice, unassuming man. Have you seen "Seconds"? Hudson gives an excellent performance in it.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
"The Birds" is my 3rd favorite AH movie. And it's another movie where Veronica Cartwright gives the best performance (imo).
I love Rock Hudson. He had great looks and seemed like a nice, unassuming man. Have you seen "Seconds"? Hudson gives an excellent performance in it.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I haven't seen a lot of films with Hudson, but he was always appealing to watch.
Cartwright is always terrific. I may have mentioned this, but my British neighbors when I was a kid in NZ were related to the Cartwright family in someway. Distant cousins I think.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Cartwright is always terrific. I may have mentioned this, but my British neighbors when I was a kid in NZ were related to the Cartwright family in someway. Distant cousins I think.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I may have mentioned this, but my British neighbors when I was a kid in NZ were related to the Cartwright family in someway. Distant cousins I think.
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No, I don't believe you've ever mentioned that before. Not to me, anyway. Very cool. Did they have anything to say about their (distant) cousins?
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
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No, I don't believe you've ever mentioned that before. Not to me, anyway. Very cool. Did they have anything to say about their (distant) cousins?
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
It was mentioned in passing once. If I recall correctly, it was brought up regarding Veronica's younger sister Angela who was one of the kids in The Sound Of Music - '65. The film had a 70mm re-release in the late 70's and I mentioned we were going to see it.
I can watch TSOM, but it is not one of my favorite musicals. Christopher Plummer was a very good actor, but he just wasn't good looking enough to be that romantically appealing.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
I can watch TSOM, but it is not one of my favorite musicals. Christopher Plummer was a very good actor, but he just wasn't good looking enough to be that romantically appealing.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
You have a good memory.
I haven't seen TSOM since I was sixteen going on seventeen. (terrible quasi-pun! don't shoot!) Actually, I think it's been longer than that. It was always a family thing when I did see it. I liked it okay at the time. I imagine I would find it inoffensive and pleasing enough if I were to watch it again. Not a super big fan of musicals.
Pauline Kael hated TSOM. She amusingly referred to it as "The Sound of Money". The only thing that she said was good in the movie was Christopher Plummer's performance, which she vividly described as "a spider on the valentine". She wrote so beautifully at times. I love the imagery that her phrase projects here.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
I haven't seen TSOM since I was sixteen going on seventeen. (terrible quasi-pun! don't shoot!) Actually, I think it's been longer than that. It was always a family thing when I did see it. I liked it okay at the time. I imagine I would find it inoffensive and pleasing enough if I were to watch it again. Not a super big fan of musicals.
Pauline Kael hated TSOM. She amusingly referred to it as "The Sound of Money". The only thing that she said was good in the movie was Christopher Plummer's performance, which she vividly described as "a spider on the valentine". She wrote so beautifully at times. I love the imagery that her phrase projects here.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Kael had a way with words and similes/metaphors.
Plummer apparently didn't think much of his role/performance in TSOM, yet he is cited as saying it is the one that he most remembered for and he took umbrage to it.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Plummer apparently didn't think much of his role/performance in TSOM, yet he is cited as saying it is the one that he most remembered for and he took umbrage to it.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Oh, she did.
I'm not pushing this on you at all, but some time if you're feeling ambitious, you should take a look online at Kael's 1969 essay "Trash, Art and the Movies". imo, it is brilliant and the best thing she ever did. I think anybody who is interested in movies and in the public's passionate relationship with the movies would love her essay, or at least find it very interesting.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
I'm not pushing this on you at all, but some time if you're feeling ambitious, you should take a look online at Kael's 1969 essay "Trash, Art and the Movies". imo, it is brilliant and the best thing she ever did. I think anybody who is interested in movies and in the public's passionate relationship with the movies would love her essay, or at least find it very interesting.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
There can never be a perfect holocaust movie. The expectation is far too high to achieve.
My password is password
My password is password
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
There can never be a perfect holocaust movie. The expectation is far too high to achieve.That is an excellent point yet due to the subject matter, its hardly going to be a solid entertaining experience. They are films of a more thought provoking nature.
Thing is though, Spielberg got a lot of hype for SL, as though it was the ultimate holocaust themed film, yet I have seen others prior that I have preferred.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
What about "Come And See" it's technically about a holocaust with an even higher body count but the other holocaust against the Jews? well some might say Shoah if you count it, not sure you can make a "perfect movie" on any topic though, I think ultimately you technically can but it likely hasn't been done on countless topics not just the holocaust.
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Come and See - '85 is a sublime experience. Almost poetic, even amongst the horrors it represents.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Isn't there a scene showing a cow being killed/dying?
I still haven't watched it, yet. I'm kind of afraid to.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
I still haven't watched it, yet. I'm kind of afraid to.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!"
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Isn't there a scene showing a cow being killed/dying?Yes, the cow gets shot, but I think its used for a barrier.
Come and See is so visually poetic, and while violent and disturbing in parts, it isn't really graphic bloody. Its more the implication and the aftermath. The most horrendous sequence in the film comes towards the climax and there is real live holocaust footage.
I find the film quite hypnotic to watch and one is always on the side of the boy, as seen through his eyes. The environment plays a huge part in the film. I found the film also has a somewhat subdued adventurous quality about it. It stunned me!
The first 2 times I saw it at the cinema, it was dubbed into English. Subsequent viewings I had on vhs were in Russian with subtitles which I liked better. The score is Mozart.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
While the holocaust was a horrific event that should not have happened, in my book there are plenty of others that get nowhere near the attention nor sympathy as the killing of the Jews did.
Mao of China which has a death toll that exceeds that of Nazi Germany.
Pol Pot and his genocide that left hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions dead in Cambodia during his take over.
America's war and genocide against the American Indian tribes.
The same thing for the Australian Aborigines.
Stalin where millions of Russians died because of him.
And I am sure there are others that I am not remembering nor aware of at the moment.
So where is the big H.Wood treatment of the above?
Why are there no epic movies made about any of those?
We have had movies made about most of the above but they do not get made or brought up nearly as much as the holocaust and most of them were TV movies which means they were on just once or a few times only to be forgotten about soon enough.
If they can revisit Auschwitz over and over again then they can revisit or start a new one with other historic horrors.
I think the reason why H.Wood is trying to get us to sympathize with the Jew cause is because this is still a white country (USA) and Jews are the ones running H.Wood. SL was made by a big time famous and popular Jew director.
And in the meantime they totally ignore the modern Jews of Israel who are doing the same things Hitler did of terrorizing their neighbors and murdering them.
Just because it was that ethnic and religious group that suffered in WW2 should not give them a free sympathetic pass when they are being murdering and war mongering assholes.
We could use some movies from a Palestinian perspective of how they are being mistreated by the terrorist Jews.
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall
Mao of China which has a death toll that exceeds that of Nazi Germany.
Pol Pot and his genocide that left hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions dead in Cambodia during his take over.
America's war and genocide against the American Indian tribes.
The same thing for the Australian Aborigines.
Stalin where millions of Russians died because of him.
And I am sure there are others that I am not remembering nor aware of at the moment.
So where is the big H.Wood treatment of the above?
Why are there no epic movies made about any of those?
We have had movies made about most of the above but they do not get made or brought up nearly as much as the holocaust and most of them were TV movies which means they were on just once or a few times only to be forgotten about soon enough.
If they can revisit Auschwitz over and over again then they can revisit or start a new one with other historic horrors.
I think the reason why H.Wood is trying to get us to sympathize with the Jew cause is because this is still a white country (USA) and Jews are the ones running H.Wood. SL was made by a big time famous and popular Jew director.
And in the meantime they totally ignore the modern Jews of Israel who are doing the same things Hitler did of terrorizing their neighbors and murdering them.
Just because it was that ethnic and religious group that suffered in WW2 should not give them a free sympathetic pass when they are being murdering and war mongering assholes.
We could use some movies from a Palestinian perspective of how they are being mistreated by the terrorist Jews.
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
If they can revisit Auschwitz over and over again then they can revisit or start a new one with other historic horrors.
Perhaps it comes down to the "chosen" aspect that gets rather dubiously attributed to Jewish. Not to mention the historical biblical teachings that Jews killed Christ. They have been persecuted throughout history for this.
Man's inhumanity to man has had an appalling track record throughout time and its still happening. Apparently, around 80 million human lives perished as a result of WWII and I don't think this would have taken into account natural deaths at the time. 6 million Jews make up for around 7.5% of these casualties.
Is it self-importance?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I thought the movie was very good. I made me want to visit the camps and si I have. First Bergen-Belsen, where there's really nothing much left to remind you of the fact it was a KZL and a few years later I visitited Auschwitz-Birkenau, where you still have pretty much everything, except the crematoria, still standing.
Having seen the movie and then being there, being able to visualise the horrors that took place right there where I was walking in freedom, taking pictures with my camera and wiping away some tears every now and then was surreal.
The most surreal thing however is how the World Economic Forum has infiltrated most governments in the world and are planning their Great Reset which will bring the world under total control of a very small group of extremely dangerous elitists. It's Hitler's, Mao's, Stalin's, Pot's wet dream come true. And the world is falling for it! Step 1 was the acceptance of the mark of the beast: the QR code for every person in the form of the 'vaccine' passes.
It's surprising how few people question what our governments are up to. If the government says 'Jump', the vast majority of people ask 'How High'. If the government says 'Thou shalt take 'vaccines' and 'boosters' because it's good for you', then people ask 'Sure, how many boosters?'. Our governments are EVIL. They do not work FOR US, they work for the WEF, which means AGAINST US.
The most evil man at this moment is klauSSwaap, followed closely by george SSoros. Unless a modern day Von Stauffenberg stands up and SLAUGHTERS these utter traitors, the world is DOOMED and WWII and all its horrors will happen again.
The only person standing between us and that scenario at the moment is Vladimir Putin.
Most dangerous man in the world: klauSSwaap, shoot to kill!
More info here: https://www.sott.net/article/462845-Exposed-Klaus-Schwabs-school-for-covid-dictators-plan-for-Great-Reset
Having seen the movie and then being there, being able to visualise the horrors that took place right there where I was walking in freedom, taking pictures with my camera and wiping away some tears every now and then was surreal.
The most surreal thing however is how the World Economic Forum has infiltrated most governments in the world and are planning their Great Reset which will bring the world under total control of a very small group of extremely dangerous elitists. It's Hitler's, Mao's, Stalin's, Pot's wet dream come true. And the world is falling for it! Step 1 was the acceptance of the mark of the beast: the QR code for every person in the form of the 'vaccine' passes.
It's surprising how few people question what our governments are up to. If the government says 'Jump', the vast majority of people ask 'How High'. If the government says 'Thou shalt take 'vaccines' and 'boosters' because it's good for you', then people ask 'Sure, how many boosters?'. Our governments are EVIL. They do not work FOR US, they work for the WEF, which means AGAINST US.
The most evil man at this moment is klauSSwaap, followed closely by george SSoros. Unless a modern day Von Stauffenberg stands up and SLAUGHTERS these utter traitors, the world is DOOMED and WWII and all its horrors will happen again.
The only person standing between us and that scenario at the moment is Vladimir Putin.
Most dangerous man in the world: klauSSwaap, shoot to kill!
More info here: https://www.sott.net/article/462845-Exposed-Klaus-Schwabs-school-for-covid-dictators-plan-for-Great-Reset
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
I have no inclination whatsoever to visit any of these death camps.
I hear ya! It is obvious to all but the phony blind leftist trolls that something is underfoot going on in the WEF.
Gaslighting works on all the fools of this world who ain't sharp enough, or have the insight to see how they are all being manipulated to keep the subterfuge hidden. That is why Assange is still locked up.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
I hear ya! It is obvious to all but the phony blind leftist trolls that something is underfoot going on in the WEF.
Gaslighting works on all the fools of this world who ain't sharp enough, or have the insight to see how they are all being manipulated to keep the subterfuge hidden. That is why Assange is still locked up.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Wait, how is the vaccine going to start the great reset?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
The 'vaccine' is what gets people to accept 'vaccine' passport which will end up exactly like the chinese social credit system.
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Wait, how is the vaccine going to start the great reset?
It has fiscally propped up Cartel Big Pharma for a start.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Big Pharma has already been propped up for a while now
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
It will be the leading elitist conglomerate corporation.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Prove that sentience begins when you say it does.
We have to ignore the far left by disproving their lies by our actions - Tim Scott
We have to ignore the far left by disproving their lies by our actions - Tim Scott
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Prove that it begins before I say it does.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Norman! What did you put in my tea?
Re: Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
Can a mother forget the baby at her breast
and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
Though she may forget,
I will not forget you!
See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;
your walls are ever before me.
We have to ignore the far left by disproving their lies by our actions - Tim Scott
and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
Though she may forget,
I will not forget you!
See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;
your walls are ever before me.
We have to ignore the far left by disproving their lies by our actions - Tim Scott
Bland and heavy handed both at the same time
This was a dark and hellish time in human history, one that was quite well documented due to early 20th Century technology. Why was it even allowed to happen and why did WWII go on for so long, especially after the appalling debacle of WWI?
I hadn't seen the film in perhaps over 20yrs. I never regarded it in reverence like many others do, nor as a revered favorite from Spielberg's oeuvre. The black and white cinematography is outstanding, yet would filming in colour have been a better choice?
If the intention was to film it like a documented piece of real film history, it also plays out with some superficiality due to Spielberg's tendency to be visually creative. This can be considered over-directing, especially considering the material. David Lean got away with this, Spielberg doesn't quite do it here.
Where Spielberg really excelled, was in the Auschwitz sequence with the wrong routed train of Schindler women. This was a pure genuine terror/horror sequence. The fear that these actors portrayed and Spielberg's handling of this visceral and gritty sequence had me weeping, especially at their relief. Genius!
Of course the anchor of the film is Oskar Schindler, with a terrific central portrayal by Liam Neeson. Why Tom Hanks won best actor for the cheesy and phony Philadelphia over Neeson boggles the mind.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?