Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi : What if Han IS Rey's father, but…

Cheated on Leia when he was out and about with Laura Dern's character or something? They could technically fit that into the story and it could make sense. Han's relationship with Rey did seem very father/daughter like as Kylo said. Not saying this is what I want to happen, I actually hope it doesn't. That would really degrade Han, and after already being handed his death scene on a silver platter I don't need that. You don't think they would make that happen, do you?

No. They had ample opportunity to play up the "surrogate daughter" angle with Han and Rey but they didn't really. Kylo seemed to pick up on something that was one-sided on Rey's part. She latched onto him in a sense, as a father figure, having had no one like that in her life. He was the first fatherly type of fellow to come into her life in a while so she "grabbed on."

Remember, Finn was the first man presumably to do so much as to ask Rey "Are you okay"? She is briefly shocked by the question. It shows you how isolated Rey is. Also, at first Han was ready to dump her and Finn on the first inhabited planet they found. Not a fatherly thing to do.

I think Kylo's words on Han being a disappointment to Rey came strictly from his own feelings of abandoment and neglect by Han, coupled with what the Force let him pick up from Rey.

Sure, Disney is totally game for it.

There won't be adultery, one night stands and such in these movies. Ever. You can sleep well.

I doubt they'd do a sibling relationship again.

Whatever you are, be a good one.

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I doubt they'd do a sibling relationship again.

Whatever you are, be a good one.

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That's my feeling on it, too. I very much doubt they're going to wipe away the previous extended universe just to basically redo the whole thing with new character names.

Disney isn't that stupid. That's something I'd expect from Fox.

Whatever you are, be a good one.

Maybe. The who's the girl line was cut away from before Han could answer. He knows something. I still hang onto the Luke's daughter theory, Daisy said the movie made it obvious who her parents are.

No. Think about it.

If you take Leia out of the equation, you remove the super genes that would make sense out of the fact that Rey's going to be a very powerful Jedi.

Rey either has to be a Skywalker, a Palpatine, a Damask or a clone/spirit/reincarnation of one of the above. Even a Kenobi is far-fetched and not powerful enough.

Re: Kenobi not powerful enough.

Yet one defeated a Skywalker, losing to the same years later only when he let himself be cut down.

No disrpespect intended, just saying. "Kenobi" has power too.

None taken.

I respect Kenobi's powers, but this is true:

Skywalkers>Damasks>Palpatines>Kenobis

As good as Kenobi was, he caught Anakin before his prime. I know you're a big Kenobi fan, but wouldn't you admit that a 30-year-old Anakin Skywalker vs. a 30-year-old Kenobi ends in favor of the former nine times out of ten?

To clarify, I am a big "Kenobi" fan in terms of character but also for preferred path of Rey's lineage, for reasons previously stated.

I will concede that Anakin would defeat Kenobi in terms of power, but my belief has long been that a huge part of Anakin's defeat and downfall in the fight we witnessed in Episode III, is laid at the feet of his arrogance.

It's not so much a match of power to power, it's the idea that both families to me ought to remain prominent. They have been so in all six previous films.

I think the battle of Mustafar was a case of Anakin playing with fire.

/rimshot

Okay, that's a metaphor, but it actually happened.

/rimshot

Seriously, I think Anakin tried to use his anger, thus, the dark side of the force, but he had no dark side training and could not control it. His emotions boiled over, leading to his defeat. He would have been equally arrogant in his 30s, but he would have dominated Kenobi nonetheless.

I'm not ragging on you for being a Kenobi fan. I just don't think the Kenobi line is as powerful as it would need to be to produce an heir as super-powered as Rey will likely end up being. When I think about Kenobi, I can't help but weigh in his defeats as much as I do his victories. Sure, he beat Grievous, Maul and an untrained Sith Lord in Darth Vader. But he went 0-2 against Dooku in the films, lost to Ventress about sixty times in Clone Wars and couldn't even subdue Jango Fett. It had become such an embarrassingly one-sided partnership with Anakin in the PT that we get the line about Kenobi owing nine left debts to Anakin (that business on Cato Neimoidia doesn't count, or it would be ten).

I get what you mean. Maybe I'm too sentimental. I guess I just don't want them "gone". Kenobi has always seemed just as much a part of Star Wars as the Skywalker family. It would be a shame to me if they were "no more." as Palpatine once said of the Jedi in general.

That's the beauty of the anthology films. I don't want Han to be gone either, but in a sense, he isn't. He's coming to a theater near me in 2018. And there'd better be an introduction to a certain Wookie in a certain spice mine. Perhaps a sabacc game where the prize is a certain bucket of bolts spaceship. Oh, and a certain run that takes less than twelve parsecs.

Maz Kanata told Rey that her family WAS NEVER COMING BACK after Han Solo had taken Rey to Maz's castle. It would make no sense for him to be her father when he was ALREADY THERE with Rey.

You're conflating. Maz didn't actually say that at all.

The truth about Marti Pellow

It takes a bit of mental juggling it seems but Maz's words are: "Whomever you are waiting for on Jakku."

So, who is Rey waiting for?

Her family. She tells BB-8 this directly.

Maz might have said "whomever" simply because Rey did not share the same nugget of information with her as she shared with BB-8. Maz was not told specifically who Rey is waiting for. BB8 was told. Hence "Whomever"



" I see your eyes. You already know the truth"

"They're never coming back"

These words affect Rey enough that she cries.

The fact that she cries tells me the implication of Maz's words is that her family are never coming back. Rey does know it, the same way Kylo knows the truth of Han's words that "Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you."

I don't think Rey would have cried so much if she didn't catch Maz's implications. Her family (whom she is waiting for on Jakku and has been waiting for them for nearly fifteen years) are never coming back.

She said, "Whoever you're waiting for [on Jakku] is NEVER COMING BACK."

Rey was waiting for her family, so that is exactly what she said.

tray- Indeed.

Plus- I don't think Han would have fooled around with anyone in the time since he and Leia seperated.

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She said, ""Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku" is NEVER COMING BACK."

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Yes, that is exactly what she said. Nothing more.

Both yourself and Sir John have pointed out what I was well aware of re what she says to BB-8 (a completely different character, in a scene much earlier in the film, which Maz isn't in!) but, as per my previous post to join the two together is to literally putting words into Maz's mouth.

I don't really want to get into arguing whether your reading of adding the two things together is correct or not but what I am saying is that if it turned out not to be it would hardly qualify as a "from a certain point" of view moment

The truth about Marti Pellow

There is nothing to argue about. She said Rey's family was NEVER coming back. Han Solo was already there, so he's not her father. She met Luke at the end of the movie, so he's not her father.

The End.

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She said Rey's family was NEVER coming back.

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Ha ha, ok buddy we're back to where we started on this one - I was just trying to point out the difference between interpretation and what was actually said in the actual film.

If you can't separate the two in your head then yes, nothing further to add here

The truth about Marti Pellow

I wrote what she said in THE ACTUAL FILM.

Faulty logic based on a misunderstanding of Maz's dialogue. Go back to Mars and think this one through young man.

Where is it "faulty"?

What difference does that make?

The phrase implies only that the parents aren't coming back to Jakku. Luke did not come back to Jakku, ipso facto, still in the running for Rey's dad.

But this is the case no matter who Rey's parents are. No one came back for her on Jakku.

Besides all that, Maz's dialogue is reflective of her gut instinct and Rey's acceptance of it as truth is her gut instinct as well. Both could be misguided.

I gotta tell ya, for a movie that only barely skimmed the first layer of multi-layer mysteries, I sure see an awful lot of demonstrative statements being made on this board about things that we have no way of knowing about yet.

WRONG!

She didn't say they're never coming back TO JAKKU.

She said WHOEVER YOU'RE WAITING ON JAKKU IS NEVER COMING BACK.

The focal pointthe point of her comment, was the "WHOEVER," not the "JAKKU."

You are free to interpret it however you please, but your interpretation is moronic.

Maz followed up that sentence by saying "BUT THERE'S SOMEONE WHO STILL CAN," proving it was about the "WHOEVER" (who) not the "JAKKU" (where).

She also said, "The belonging you seek IS NOT BEHIND YOU it is ahead."

All in all, neither Luke or Han Solo is Rey's father.

BUT THERE'S SOMEONE WHO STILL CAN could've been referring to Luke or Finn, since she obviously met Luke at the end of VII, but Finn had just walked away to leave with the two Aliens before Maz said that, until he heard the voices crying out in the Hosnian system IN THE NEXT FEW SCENES, which stopped him from leaving. We'll see what happens with Rey and Finn over the next two films. Odds are Luke won't be making it out of this Trilogy.

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but there's someone who still can

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This portion could also refer to Kylo (Ben) ultimately coming back to the Light Side of the Force.

If you listen carefully to Maz and Rey talking after the ForceBack sequence, after Maz says: "The sabertake it" you can catch a voice quickly and quietly making the uttterance. "It's Ben"

My thought is it's Maz trying to tell Rey something. Maz was supposed to use the Force in a scene cut from the film, so it's feasible to me that she could use the Force to try to speak to Rey.

What would she tell ReyEarlier she says what you listed: "Whomever you're waiting for on Jakkuthey're never coming back."

Rey says "Luke" but in spite of speaking of belonging that lies ahead for Rey, Maz does not confirm this (that she is speaking of Luke when she says someone can stil come back) in a verbal answer.

I've thought for a while that her answer was spoken through the Force ("It's Ben.")

I've no reason to think Rey could use the Force to "talk to herself" (so the voice wouldn't be Rey's own)and at this point as far as we know, Rey has no idea who "Ben" is.

However, despite not being a Jedi, Maz admits that she knows the Force. She is over a thousand years old, and is good friends with Han and Chewbacca. I'd think it reasonable to say that she knows who "Ben" is.

She wasn't talking about Kylo Ren, but Disney could go in that direction if they decide to make "Reylo" a thing, which would be silly.

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if they decide to make "Reylo" a thing, which would be silly.

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That feeling is and would be your perrogative. I respect it, but I also respectfully disagree with it.

Star Wars has always been about hope, redemption and love if you look at the overall picture of the first six films. Plus in each trilogy, there was a romance that involved a Skywalker at the heart of the story. We know Kylo Ren IS a Skywalker by blood. Anakin's daughter Leia is his mother.

So if tradition carries on and thy have another romance that involves a Skywalker, the question becomes "Who is Kylo (Ben) going to take an interest in?

Rey would seem to be the logical and dramatically the most interesting choice, since they are currently entangled in a personal conflict.

The only other option (so far) would be for Kylo to take notice of Kelly Marie Tran's character (the one Finn is supposedly going to get involved with), or the woman played by Laura Dern. Neither of whom we know yet.

Okay, we'll analyze the verbatim.

The "whoever" is never coming back.

Did Luke come back?

Did Han come back?

Negative on both. Han did not come back for Rey. Luke did not come back for Rey. Thus, both could be (could have been) her dad.

Han came for the Falcon (cue memes). Luke didn't go anywhere at all, thus, he never came back. Rey went to him.

The very verbiage you point to as being verbiage that discriminates against one character or another ironically does the opposite: due to the way TFA played out, Maz's words simply mean that anyone could be Rey's parents, because no one ever came back for her.

The only way you can interpret it to mean that Luke is out of the running is if you are 100% positive that her parents are dead. Because no living being in the galaxy came back for her, thus, all living beings (age, species notwithstanding) are in the running for Rey parentage.

Han Solo was already there, so if he was Rey's father he would've already COME BACK into her life, so he isn't her father.

She met Luke at the end of VII, so if he was her father, then he would've COME BACK into her life, so he isn't either.

All the mental jujitsu in the world you just displayed doesn't change the fact of what was spoken by Maz.

The only way EITHER is her father is if Maz didn't have a clue what she was talking about, or TFA is a poorly written mess.

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Han Solo was already there, so if he was Rey's father he would've already COME BACK into her life, so he isn't her father.

She met Luke at the end of VII, so if he was her father, then he would've COME BACK into her life, so he isn't either.

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LOL. You're working yourself into a paradox my friend. You're now stating that if Luke or Han were her father they would've already come back. And yet if Maz's statement is true, the father is not coming back at all. So in essence, you have now worked yourself into an interpretive paradox. The fact that Maz said the father isn't coming back - combined with the fact that Luke did not come back as you've just stated - would make him a true candidate to fulfill Maz's statement and yet you keep pushing that Maz's statement means it can't be Luke.

This paradox is proof that the only way you've interpreted Maz correctly is if Rey's father is dead.

i think fans are really over thinking who her parents are obviously we will find out in the movie but its going to be luke trust me its not going to be a big surprise it will simply be luke it can only be luke or han an luke is the obvious choice

Pretty much agree. There's precedent to pull the old Chosen One reincarnation/virgin birth scenario and there's also precedent to do something new, what with the secret "very important" thing that Palpatine was excavating/guarding on Jakku storyline angle.

But yeah, I'd give alternative possibilities a combined 10% chance. Han = 30%. Luke = 60%. I'm hoping it's Han, but it's probably Luke.

luke is the obvious choice because it will help with rivalry between them her an ren him being a solo an her being a sky walker lol i think thats what there going for

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The only way EITHER is her father is if Maz didn't have a clue what she was talking about, or TFA is a poorly written mess.

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This.

Maz is a crappy substitute Yoda-wannabe by JJ Abrams.

"Not all change is progress, as not all movement is forward."

Maybe she is so strong because she could be a Skywalker and a Kenobi. During Ben's gap in the movies he fell in love with a woman named Satine. They have a daughter maybe named Sabine maybe not. The force leads Luke to find Ben's daughter and they fall in love and now we have Rey. It's possible Luke thought Rey had perished. She could be so powerful because she has the blood of the Skywalker and Kenobi family.

I'm thinking we will eventually be told what Maz means. At least I hope we will.

If Luke does turn out to be Rey's father, he will more than likely have some explaining to do. Being left alone to fend for herself since the age of five is something anyone would likely want a good explanation for.especially someone like Rey who yearns for belonging and family.

and if she is a Skywalker.Ben's importance, and that of his struggle betweeen the two sides of the Force, could essentially be thrown out the window .He could end up "meaning nothing." A sad contemplation.

But so long as Kenobi is involved, you'd take it.

IF that means the Kenobi is Rey and that she is not a Skywalkeryes.


It would allow both families to remain prominent in the sequels, and it would take nothing away from Ben as far as importance.. If Kylo Ren dies dark, it will feel to me as though Han died in vain and "for nothing."


Ben has always felt to me as if he is far too important to be just another villain who must ultimately be defeated (who was already defeated in the first movie out of three. Seeing him defeated twice or potentially three times? Not something exciting to contemplate or look forward to. His importance is all the greater if it turns out he is the last Skywalker, THE Skywalker of this generation, as I have long felt he should be.

It feels better to me if Kylo turns, Ben emerges and comes home. Skywalker legacy is saved, and Kenobi is still prominent through Rey (grand-daughter, matching Kylo Ren- grandson of Anakin.) Two new Jedi, same generation

Padme and Anakin live happily ever after this time, eh?

Well, a hypothetical for you, just to test how deep is your love (I really need to know):

Happily ever after isn't in the cards for a Reylo romance (let's say), so if Kylo is the Skywalker of the future and Rey is a Kenobi, which eventuality would you prefer to see: Skywalkers are evil going forward because Kylo never turned back and Kenobis are good going forward because Rey stayed the path until the end OR Skywalkers are good because Kylo was saved whereas Kenobis are evil because Rey was turned? Choose wisely.

Oh, dear. Conundrum. Okay, here we go.

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Padme and Anakin live happily ever after this time, eh?

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Ideally, yes. That would be wonderful. Recall, romantic love "doomed" Anakin. It seems fitting that it might help to save Ben. Star Wars has always struck me as a fairytale set in space. A classic fairytale story is that of a Prince rescuing a Princess. Turn it over. Let the Princess help rescue the Prince even if she rescues him "from himself"

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Happily ever after isn't in the cards for a Reylo romance

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Hopefully it is and would be. Star Wars has always ultimately been about redemption, hope and love

But let's get to the (let's say) part of the situation you pose

I don't see a turn to the Dark for Rey (there would likely be a vast social outcry if such did happen.)

If Kylo remains dark but liveslet's say he kills Snoke in a rage over feeling betrayed, deceived and used by him If Kylo lives but remains dark.then my choice would be the "birth" of a new era. The era of the "Grey Jedi" A blend of Light and Dark, ruled by neither side. Kylo and Rey acknowledging the balance of Light and Dark, in place of the complete "eradication" of either.

Ideally,"Reylo" could and would end with "happily ever after". That's my first hope. But to answer your puzzle, see above. "Pure" Light and Dark are two extremes. Acknoledging and embracing aspects of both would give us the era of the "Grey Jedi".

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Recall, romantic love "doomed" Anakin. It seems fitting that it might help to save Ben.

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While Reylo is not the direction I'd prefer to see, you do make an interesting point. It certainly would fit snugly in the The Ring Theory as well, yet would simultaneously provide the trapdoor out of the maze of the ring that Star Wars is thematically following. Kind of like Neo's self-sacrifice that ended the ongoing "different method, same result" Chosen One cycle that was playing out in The Matrix.

Alas, over a 100,000 years ago, the Jedi concluded that romantic love was to be shunned by force users and they must have had a really good reason. Perhaps the idea of Reylo breaking the nine-episode ring would only eventually lead right back to square one.

Dunh, dunh, DUUUNNNNHHHH!!!!!!

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Alas, over a 100,000 years ago, the Jedi concluded that romantic love was to be shunned by force users and they must have had a really good reason.

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Regarding going back to square one. Posssibly, but maybe not. We'd have to see what happens with it. This is my own train of thought, as far as the Jedi. I would call it a well-intentioned "fault" of the Jedi. They are idealistic (that is not the fault to which I refer). As I understand it, they discourage romantic love and emotional attachment even emotion in general because it can distract from duty and give birth to darker impulses (anger, fear, hatred, etc). So what is their solution? Deny any spark of love. Supress emotion ("There is no emotion. There is peace.")

The problem is you can't reasonably do that. Humans and other sentient beings of the galaxy are emotional beings. Without proper outlet for emotion they will "snap".

The problem with the Sith and other Dark Force users seems to be that they have no temperance. They let the darker emotions rule them and come out full blast with "all guns blazing." There seeems to be no "balance."

A "Grey Jedi" would (seemingly) be "balanced" at least somewhat. Ideally a Grey Jedi would neither deny love, nor emotion generally, yet they would be able to temper their darker emotions with lighter. Tempering anger with compasison, mercy, etc.

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As I understand it, they discourage romantic love and emotional attachment even emotion in general because it can distract from duty and give birth to darker impulses

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Didn't Yoda even say, "Attachment leads to jealousy. The cousin of greed that is?"

I think Lucas may also have taken this right out of the Bible, like most of the other SW ideas. Paul wrote that it would be better if a man did not get married, and instead, dedicated himself fully to God's service. Paul then added, in a nutshell, "but go ahead and get married because I know you can't control your lust."

Similar notion to what you mean. There's an ideal and some beings can fit into that perfect ideal. For others, there needs to be a realistic parameter to achieve.

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"Attachment leads to jealousy. The cousin of greed that is?"

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I think it's "The shadow of greed" but esentially, yes. Most will need to take a middle ground because the complete denial of emotion or the keeping of it "in check", and the ability to "erase" the want or need for love, companionship and so on.is not something easy to accomplish. Many would find it too painful to maintain.

Shadow, right.

Anyone who thinks Luke is her father just WANTS Luke to be because you're ignoring the fcking movie itself.

Let me know how that paradox is working out for you.