Love with the Proper Stranger : how do you think the film feels about abortion?

personally, i feel it's pro-choice. the characters are never heard discussing the idea of abortion as a moral issue, and the topic isn't even brought up in a shocking way. what mulligan does show is how terrible it is when abortion is carried out under illegal circumstances. the film focuses more on the romance, but i feel if it is saying anything about abortion it's arguing for it to be legal. then again, these are just my first impressions, and i'm pro-choice myself so that could be coloring it a bit. what do you feel the film is trying to say?

I agree that the film is pro-choice (even though Angie doesn't go through with it). I personally think that scene is the best in the movie. The director captures a feeling of creepiness and coldness Angie feels as she prepares herself (or tries to) for the illegal abortion.

I think it's Natalie Wood's finest moment of her film career.

I don't think the film was trying to send any message. It was reflecting what the characters felt and believed.

Yeah, I think it would be kind of ridiculous to make the message of the movie a focus on pro abortion. The baby more or less represents their relationship, they can either choose to nurture it and care for it, or kill it altogether and put it behind for, what they first thought, would be a better life.

i'm not saying that the message is even about abortion, which is why i made the point of saying that it focuses on the romance. abortion is, however, a huge part of the film, so i was just asking if people thought the filmmakers were saying anything for or against it.

I doubt the stark depiction of what a woman had to go through to secure a medical procedure was an indifferent choice. Her choices all sucked and they showed that: marry a guy she barely knows or put her life on the line for what could be a safe, swift process.

I don't know that you can label that "pro-choice" per se, but it sure put a dismal light on women's options before Roe v. Wade.

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Nothing to see here, move along.

I agree with this comment completely. This is about human beings. Not everything has to have a "message."

Like Daddy's Gone A-Hunting(69) the abortion issue is a plot device and that film and LWTPS could arguably support both sides pro or con.

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It's never really clear why she does not go through with it.

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When Steve burst into that room and saw what that woman had laid out and what she was going to do, he rebelled and told her to get dressedshe refused..until she turned around and saw for herself that it was a dirty blanket and a spotlight..god only knows what kind of infection she would have gotten..then she started to cry when she saw what could have happened to her.

Bear in mind, that's when abortions were illegal! I don't think the film was making a statment about abortions, just that she considered it as a way out of a very bad situation. Many women faced that during those times.



"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything!".

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When Steve burst into that room and saw what that woman had laid out and what she was going to do, he rebelled and told her to get dressedshe refused..until she turned around and saw for herself that it was a dirty blanket and a spotlight..god only knows what kind of infection she would have gotten..then she started to cry when she saw what could have happened to her.

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For me it was more like she never wanted to do this and all was she waiting for was some good word from the future father of her baby. It was always Rocky who found the doctor, then who looked at the watch

Viva Bardot!

I agree. I kept getting the feeling by all her looks and stuff that she didn't want to go through with it. She originally brought it up because she was hoping he would assume responsibility and help her with the child. At least that's my take.

Tonight after the showing on TCM Sally Fields said she thought the abortion scene was so powerful. She remembered as a teenager being very impressed by it. Of course it was a taboo subject then.

Same here and it made me pro-choice. I still get a chill looking at that scene.

"intofilm replied Jul 10, 2008
Tonight after the showing on TCM Sally Fields said she thought the abortion scene was so powerful. She remembered as a teenager being very impressed by it. Of course it was a taboo subject then."

I didn't know Sally Field was a fan of this movie. That would explain why she starred in Mulligan's "Kiss Me Goodbye" (a much lesser film).

I don't think the film "feels" one way or another about it. Abortion was still illegal when this film was made, and the Production Code was still enforced: there was no way a heroine could commit a crime and still remain a heroine. Q.E.D. The notions of "pro-choice" or "anti-choice" don't really obtain in this time periodit's an anachronism.

There's no question that abortion is portrayed grimly. The first place they meet, with their $400, looks like the meat-packing district, which makes for quite the meta-commentary. And, as others have noted, Rocky takes Angie out of the abortionist's room when he sees the conditions, and realizes the woman isn't even a doctor. She's a classic back-alley abortionist, the kind that the pro-choice movement has been invoking for 30 years, but the film is merely reflecting reality, not sending a message (in the immortal words of Jack Warner or was it Sam Goldwyn? Claims vary"If I want to send a message, I'll call Western Union").

This is hardly the first film to pose this question for a female character. But films in 1963 still had to operate within a specific set of rules, and for a romantic heroineeven in such a dark romance as thisthere was only one choice. No one got a happy ending without following the rules.

Good post, klg19..and very well put. The mid 60's was the decade of 'Free Love'..but you had to make sure you used protection if you didn't want to get pregnant. The birth control pill was introduced in 1960but maybe Angie wasn't 'experienced' yet.,,i.e., maybe she was still a virgin. It only takes once!





"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything!".

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The birth control pill was introduced in 1960but maybe Angie wasn't 'experienced' yet.,,i.e., maybe she was still a virgin. It only takes once!

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Just because the Pill was introduced in '60 doesn't mean that every sexually active woman was taking it. The introduction of the Pill was only the beginning of sexual liberation of women. It's taken decades for attitudes to change. There were still strong moral and ethical issues women must have struggled with that many of us today would find quaint and outdated. Just the act of visiting her GP for a prescription would have seemed an admission of shameful rampant promiscuity for many young women. Much the same as today where there are still people too embarrassed to buy condoms, even though they are on supermarket shelves.

Secondly, I think the film made it quite clear that Angie was a virgin prior to her encounter with Rocky. In the scenes in the warehouse where they were hiding from her brothers, Rocky asked why she had slept with him (not in those exact words of course). She replied that it was an experiment, and that it had not gone particularly well. She said in a paraphrased way, "It is not like you read about in books or see in movies. They brainwash you to think there are bells and banjos".



That wasn't very sporting, using real bullets.

For Catholics even today it's as grave a sin to use the birth control pill or any other contraceptive method aside from the rhythm method (and some priests are even against of that one too, since the basic dogma behind the contraception ban is: "be fruitful and multiply", so having sex -or not having it- without the intent of populating the world with more Catholics is against God's mandate) as it was 40 years ago (or 1000 years ago, for that matter). There are still GPs that refuse to prescribe it (even to married women) due to "moral issues".
Of course abortion for the Catholic church is a mortal sin, way worse than using the pill, but one is a direct consequence of the other.

Nowadays I'll venture to say that the majority of Catholics (myself included) wish the church would revise its stance towards birth control, and even abortion (I'm pro-choice and a lot of Catholics are)Some polls say that about 90-96% of all sexually active Catholic women have used some form of birth control *other* than the rhythm method at some point in their life; another shows rhar 82% of Catholics (men and women) felt even in the current state of affairs, you could use birth control and still be a "good Catholic". This even though the Catholic Church has repeatedly stated without uncertainty that the use of contraceptions is a grave sin.
The point is now we can openly question the Pope's decisions about how we live our life vs. how we live our faith (and due to that some things are slowly beggining to change e.g. on Nov/2010 Pope Benedict XVI lifted the ban on condoms as a last resort tool to prevent disease) but back then: forget it! That was strictly taboo.

I think the film very cleverly provided enough ambiguity to avoid offending the censors and other people. By not having them discuss the moral issues, they pleased the pro-choice people. And the fact that the couple couldn't go through with it, pleased the pro-life people.

They left it ambiguous why they backed out. The pro-choice people can argue that they backed out because of the safety issues (unclean, possibly unqualified doctor, etc.) The pro-life people can argue that the couple backed out because they just couldn't kill their baby. Natalie seemed to be having second thoughts before she even turned around to see the set-up.

I'm pro-choice myself, but I interpreted it that they just couldn't kill their baby. Not just for moral reasons, but because they had started to get to know (and like) one another better that afternoon. I think for her, it was meeting his parents that made him seem more likable.

Ms. Field referred to this film as a romantic comedy. Not in its entirety! It is two separate films: from the beginning to Angie's declining the abortion, then to Angie's joining Rocky (the one-man band) in the street.

I found the part about pursuit of the abortion frightening. There was not a shred of romance or comedy in that sequence.

I think you miss the true intent. It's the abortionists, not abortions. In that time the question of legal abortion was unthinkable. By attacking the abortionists, who were butchering young girls all over the country, the pro choice theme could be approached obliquely. The movie is preparing the ground for pro choice. In that time the film could never openly advocate for it.

I think it was very deliberately neutral.

Having watched again, I still have the same impression I had when I first saw it back when it first came out. Abortion was illegal then, so there was no discussion about it. They just wanted to make the problem go away and they went about it in a matter of fact way, as best they could. It didn't strike me as taking a stand one way or the other; just two young people in a jam.

Angie Rossini was a nearly-virginal, good Catholic girl, who lived with her family and had only made one mistake experimenting with sex, and became pregnant. According to the films story, Angie and Rocky are falling in love, their contact is bumping up the price of the abortion, and the abortion doctor they find is an untrained backroom butcher not what was promised. Is it any wonder they refuse her services?

This 1963 film was already pushing the limits of the Production Code, not only because a soon-to-be unwed mother did not die before the end of the film to reinforce societys prohibition against premarital sex, but she got to marry the man she loved. A year later The Pawnbroker would force the code to approve a film showing bare breasts, which began a series of attacks upon the code that would eventually end in it being abandoned in 1968.

Love With a Proper Stranger is a realistic depiction of the choices available to couples who found themselves in that untenable situation in 1963. It cannot be used reasonably to support any political position. At best, it might be used to support an appeal for increased access to birth control information and products.

This movie changed my ideas on abortion. I used to be pro-life unless rape was involved or the female's health was in jeopardy. My views changed when I realized that if someone wants to get an abortion, they will. They will find a way to do it. This movie showed how dangerous abortions can be when they are made illegal. I would rather they be made legal so that it would be less harmful for the woman. Many women die every year because of illegal abortions. Although an abortion should never be done in the 3rd trimester. If you don't want that child at that point then you should give it up for adoption.

This is coming from a Catholic-raised 24 year old woman from NYvery similar upbringing like Natalie Wood's character had in this movie.

I think that scene shows that even a legal, clean abortion isn't easy and for most women, is an agonizing decision. Showing her having to go to a butcher out of desperation hit home with me and I hope it did for others. No woman should have to go through that. I don't think anyone likes the idea of abortion, but I think most reasonable people feel it is up to the individual, and that women cannot lead equal independent lives without that choice in a dire situation.

I cheered McQueen's character when he grabbed her and took her out of there. A lot of guys then and now would have been selfish and only cared about shirking their part.

This movie just showed EXACTLY how things were in 1963! Very realistic I would sayI do not think Angie really wanted the abortion but saw no other way out of a back situation. Rocky started changing his mind after running from her brothers and spending time with her. He said it at her apartment, "You are really a woman," or something to that effect. Also, that she did not try and trap him and THAT made him stop and thinkshe would not trap him and "tie him down" so to speak. They both started to like each other and because did not pressure him, told him she was seeing someone else and ended up putting him outthat really got him to thinking. Get in "my stuff" and "raise my baby" his parents would die if they knew Rocky had a childespecially by Angie!

I take my hat off because I was about to cry when he came in the room, saw what they intended to do, told her to get dressed, slapped her face to bring her back from her trance and said, "I'll kill them first, I won't let them touch you!" That was it in a NUTSHELL right there. They both should have gotten the Oscar for those performances alone. I LOVE THIS MOVIE!

To me it does not matter if you are pro-choice (me) or pro-life it is a VERY PROFOUND scene! I just saw this after finding it to buy a few months ago and have watched it at least once a week since then. I am a non-practicing Catholic whose mother checked the rating of the movies I saw. Some we got away with but "Love With The Proper Stranger"no way was that getting by the "old eagle-eye" so I never tried. This movie is very hard to find just like "This Property Is Condemned" another thought provoking movie!

I think the back alley abortion scene makes a strong case for legalization.

I didn't get the impression that they were either for abortion, nor for against it. They were trying to show what it was like back then for females who were carrying unwanted babies. This was the reality, although this gal was lucky that she and the baby's father fell in love with each other and got together at the end. For many girls, the ending wasn't so happy.

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Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen =