Cleanskin : Fantastic film + seriously underrated!

I think this movie was a real cut above and cannot believe some of the critics who reviewed it negatively.

I think it was a case of them missing the point completely.

As you replied to my post I'll reply to yours mr kid sir!

Yes underrated it is but maybe it'll get discovered on DVD.

Agreed on that.

It seems lots of good films today slip through the radar in movie theaters. DVD/Blu Ray are the arenas where films are discovered. Hope this happens to Cleanskin. who knows though.

I get taken by the boyfriend to a lot of mucho macho movies but loved this one. Not mucho macho at all but gripping.

Sean Bean is so rugged and sexy in it but he also shows a sensitive side. Love the sheffield accent Seany!

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Yes underrated it is but maybe it'll get discovered on DVD.

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Well, you're spot on! It is underrated and, I found it on DVD and thought it was as dramatic as it was thought-provoking; everything you want in this genre! It will sit proudly with all the other 8/10's on my list.

I personally didn't think it looked like an American film, mainly because they don't quite show this kind of brutality like the English.

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This looked more like an American production than British.

Trcer1, yeah it does have that slick American look unlike many UK films

I take it you found the plot of the movie - that the security services would conspire to commit terrorist acts for their own benefit - to be preposterous then? Ever hear of Operation Northwoods? All the Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to commit terrorist acts and blame them on the Cubans to justify an invasion. Only JfK refused to go along with it - publicly documented. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods - how about that, smartass? Are you going to back away slowly from public documents and Wikipedia too? Are you some science nerd who thinks that slavish devotion to your masters will protect you (the worst kind of coward)?


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Thanks for that, Mongoose. Sadly, there was no JFK - farthest thing from it - to interject some sanity when the Dr. Strangeloves of our age came up with their concept of a "new Pearl Harbor" as a pretext to justify taking control of oil resources in the Middle East as described by the neo-con "Project For A New American Century" documents.



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Ah, the old incompetence theory. It's of no consequence to the ruling class whether you get your driver's license on time but it does have every interest in protecting and maximizing it's own wealth and power, and the only way to do that is by anticipating the future better than any of their potential competitors so as to minimize risk. If they can't get that right then they will eventually lose everything and someone who does it better will take their place. To this end they hire the finest minds from the best schools. They have supercomputers that can analyze every conceivable contingency many moves into the future. "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." - Franklin D. Roosevelt. No accidents. Planning. Planning is how they got there and how they stay there. There is just no room for incompetence.
9/11 incompetence theory - . Not to mention building 7 which was not hit by any plane. It, along with the two towers are the only 3 buildings in human history made of steel and concrete to collapse allegedly due to fire. Tell me where these 1700 Architects and engineers are wrong - AE911Truth Experts Speak Out -



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I am not a scientist (well, I haven't published yet), and physics and architecture isn't my field. So, I will not debate these things, other than to say the phenomenon is well known as a "progressive collapse," and building 7 was badly damaged by debris and fires.

Anyways, hundreds to thousands of people would have to be involved or know about a plan to set up charges and carry out the plan like you describe. For that to happen with no credible leaks 11 years later is very unlikely.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center#Collapse_of_7_World_Trade_Center
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_collapse
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

And this amusing article:
http://www.debunking911.com/meeting.htm

Did you bother to watch any of the videos? Would you honestly you care, or even want to know, if it was an inside job (please answer this question honestly, at least)? Are you willfully ignorant or just ignorant? It was done, after all, for the benefit of corporate America and some small portion of that benefit presumably trickles down to the public. Would you look a mass murdering gift horse in the mouth? For the vast majority, the answer is a resounding "no".

However, there are 200+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials, 1000+ Engineers and Architects, 250+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals, 400+ Professors, 300+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members, 200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals who don't want to live in a country where such grotesque lies are accepted as truth or profit from the blood of innocents around the world. Don't you think you owe it to those who are sticking their necks out for truth against the most powerful empire the world has ever known to at least check out the evidence? - (www.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html).

Secrets can be kept. 130,000 people kept the Manhattan Project secret for 4 years. Someone would have talked? Someone would be crazy (http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/04/10/someone-would-have-talked-someone-wou ld-be-crazy/). And who would that someone talk to? "Congressional hearings in 1976 proved CIA had been paying off editors and reporters in most mainstream media outlets" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird).

The thing about nerds and academics is they are very easy to indoctrinate and compartmentalize, a great boon for the amoral psychopaths at the top of the pyramid. The world needs people who can think for themselves and have the courage of their convictions, not another intelligent drone who will soon be replaceable by artificial intelligence. Which of those describes you? If you looked at the evidence with an open mind for 10 minutes, you'd realize the government's story is a ludicrous fairy tale. Soon we will be attacking and destroying yet another country which has done us no harm. Eventually, America is going to pay for all the evil it has done. Whose side will you want to be on then? It may be too late to switch.



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I don't understand why you're highlighting academics opinions in your argument, then discrediting them in the last paragraph

Yes, I've heard all those arguments, as I believed in those theories myself, years ago.

Yes, I know the government has/does influence media; money talks But, I don't think it's as all-encompassing as you believe. And, there are plenty of credible outlets to leak info. Wikileaks for one.

Keeping the development of a weapon during war-time secret is much different than keeping something like a 9/11 conspiracy secret. Such a thing would weigh heavy on most people's conscious.

"intelligent drone who will soon be replaceable by artificial intelligence"

Let's hope so. AI is my field :)

Oh, what am I going to do when the chickens come home to roost? God damn America! LOL, couldn't help myself. If you're talking about war, then no side, as I don't believe in war; and violence only in defense.

You believed in the theories. What a load. What convinced you "the theories" were wrong? Only a complete moron could actually look into this and buy the official story. Debunk one point I've made or linked to so far. The truth is you're just a smug, privileged little yuppie (privilege built on a giant mound of stinking dead bodies) who doesn't care to be bothered with uncomfortable truths. Stop pretending otherwise. Reality will smack you in the face one day.



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Ok, thanks for that. I understand a little better now and congrats on your success. I've listened to AJ for years and am fairly sour on him at the moment although still listen to the guests I like. He tends to mix a lot of right-wing propaganda in with everything and makes you feel like you're only choice is to join his team and support all his right-wing causes or be with the conspiracy and I totally reject that. I could say a lot more about that but I won't. Anyway, A&E49/11Truth is non-ideological. All they are doing is presenting the evidence to call for a new investigation. I mean even the 9/11 commission have rejected their own findings. Here are some quotes:

9/11 Commission head, Republican Thomas Kean - We to this day dont know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth."

In 2006, The Washington Post reported"Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members
and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission"

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey - "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer."

John Farmer, Senior Council of the 9-11 Commission and Rutgers University Dean of the Law School:

At some level of government, at some point in time, a decision was made not to
tell the truth about the national response to the attacks on the morning of 9/11. We owe the truth to the families of the victims of 9/11. We owe it to the American public as well, because only by understanding what has gone wrong in the past can we assure our nations safety in the future.

Would you agree, at least, in light of the complete lack of confidence in the commission's report expressed by the head of the commission, that a new investigation is warranted? Or perhaps you feel that your actual job (which could be with the gov for all I know) might be in jeopardy, in which case, and in light of your background, I absolve you (temporarily) ;)



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Huh?

just finished watching it and i agree
a great movie with depth and subtext that raises many questions with world events
a true spy movie ian fleming would be proud of

if u cant sleep someone is dreaming you're awake

what a real action/thriller 7/10 easily

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RUN ZOMBIE RUN
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What a movie! I truly enjoyed it! 8/10. Sequel please!

I don't see a sequel, the character has nowhere to go. He has to be in hiding from now on.

bravo!

god film not great or anything but good.

I just finished watching the movie, and I got to say that it was definitely one of the better "terrorist-thrillers" out there. However, the reviews the movie has gotten are far from nice, in fact, one of the larger newspapers here in the UK, The Guardian, gave it one out of five stars. Now, the movies is not perfect, but it deserved way better than that.

I believe this has more to do with very sensitive subject of in-land terrorism, than the actual quality of the film. In contrary to other films in this genre, the depiction of terrorists was more complexed than the traditional woman-beating/western hating arab (True lies, rules of engagement etc). Instead of just focusing on the many nuances of government involvement (Body of lies), an unusual level of depth is given to the terrorist: the main antagonist, Ash.

On one hand, he got his love interest, and on the other hand he feels frustrated about his place in the world. He is very skeptical towards the western model of justice, but however, his descent into a terrorist is not without conflict, as he questions and voices his dismay to the brutality, and the cause. In short, he is not ONLY depicted as a cold-blooded killer, but also as a human.

Interestingly, the government officials are depicted as cruel and dispassionate in their quests to achieve their goals, and to operate without restricitons (burning the guy alive, beating/threatening prostitute, murder missions).
Ash's love interest, an English girl, is indirectly hinted to be an alcoholic who resorts to drinking in order to cope with lonelyness, a subliminal shot at western culture.

Now, these factors do explain why the movie has gotten such bad reviews here in UK. All they see is that the foreign terrorist is a person people can sympathise with, the government is evil, and on top of it all, the director has an arabic sounding name. Thus, I am sure this movie hit a few nerves and evoked emotional responses that may have interfered with their reviews.

I give it an 8/10, could've had more depths, the terrorist leader was a bit stereotype and his rhetoric should have been pretty see-through for a smart guy like Ash. Additionally, more room should've been given to Ash, and they should've been more detailed with his transformation to terrorist (his trip to afghanistan).

@alloriginal84 -
Completely agree with absolutely everything you said.
My thoughts exactly.

it certainly is a prophetic film

Very good film really enjoyed it, It was nice how it wasn't all focused on the good guy but also the events of the terrorist ash and his point of view on things opposed to just one side what I also liked about the film how alot of truth is involved that Big speech ash made before he got shot that *beep* does happen, and has been happening for a very long time , so yeah really good film with alot of education involved also.

alloriginal, yes I think you hit the nail on the head there.

Worst movie I've seen in a looong time, and I love espionage movies.


Everyone in this movie acted like a complete idiot. The flashbacks were way too drawn-out & meaningless.
The end made little sense.

Other then that, well I guess it will pass the time if you're bored and incredibly stupid.

This film is highly underrated. I have given it 8.

Agreed! I was pleasantly surprised and very impressed.
I stumbled upon it by pure chance.
It's a seriously underrated and unknown movie which deserves to be much better known.

"Creasy's art is death, and he's about to paint his masterpiece"

Agree

Bump