Just Before Dawn : Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

I just read almost every post here and still have a question, maybe someone can help. I read about the fan composite that use the R1 & R 2, but it does not address my question.
What is in the Paragon tape that is not in the R1 besides the few seconds during the first murder? I ask because the Paragon VHS is 91 min and the R1 is 90 min. Anyone know for sure?

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

enough small cuts here and there that using the paragon tape for my composite became essential. Also the region 1 disc is way over matted. In fact you can see it is a full frame picture with the fake black bars added, if anything you loose more from this fake matting and gain nothing. If you love the film then getting the region 1 disc is still a must. Run times can be tricky because various film prints tend to run at different speeds

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Maybe I'm crazy, but I was under the impression that the R1 release contained the exact same print as the Paragon USA VHS release?
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Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

no absolutely not. It is highly cut down in many places. I spoke with director, Leiberman a few years back right before the dvd was released. The true negative masters are owned by some rich guy (an exact quote by Leiberman as well as Bruce from Grindhouse pictures who told me the same thing). Shriek show used the best print they were legally allowed to obtain. Although it looks very nice it is cut down throughout the whole film. Minor bits and lines but still cut

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Wow. That sucks. So someone OTHER than the director of the film owns the negative and won't give 'em up for less than ton of coin, eh? Damn.

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Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

I sent you another PM you dd not read yet, check it

Yes it does suck. It's funny about the term used to describe whomever it may be. About 3-4 years before I spoke to lieberman, Bruce from grindhouse was the
one who told me "some rich guy" via email. When I spoke to Jeff at a chiller expo shortly before shriek show's dvd was released he told me the same thing "some rich guy".

I think you will love my composite. I went through literally every few seconds comparing the two. SO much extra small tidbits in the UK version. It was fun to put it all together and finally see how possibly the film was really supposed to have been released

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Did anyone ever document the exact differences just between the US Paragon VHS release and the USA DVD? I'm just curious as to how extensive they are because I know the QUALITY of the USA DVD is pretty much the best available, etc.

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Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Actually though not a complete one, a few of them are mention on this forum. Scroll down on this page (or use my link below). Most of them are mentioned there. Were you able to get a hold of my composite version yet?


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082592/board/nest/23346845?p=1


You should also note that the US dvd is MATTED. I have a comparison picture of this on my composite disc. You get nothing but more removed picture. It looks
over matted in a 1:85:1 ratio. The film was shot in a full screen ratio. I think if they used a 1:77 or 1:75 it would have been better. Below is the picture from my dvd. You can see my version on the bottom and the matted one on top. Also when speaking to Lieberman it did not sound like he had much of a say at all in the making on the SS disc. In fact originally he was going to opt out for a commentary track because they were not going to pay him (and unless it was ironed out, he was not really going to be getting much of any funds from that dvd release either)

comparison pink link below
http://www.box.net/shared/static/1kkniixc8g.jpg

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Yes, I did get your version - it's really nice.

Thanks for the heads-up on the matting and for the link - I'm headed there right now to check it out.

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Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Another question: WHAT THE F is this post referring to?!? There is no such extension of this scene in either the composite version or the SS version - is this poster confusing the scene from the graveyard with the scene where the friend (with the sunglasses still on) is found???:

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by horrortitan (Wed Sep 14 2005 12:16:54)
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What pisses me off about the DVD being cut is that they (Shriek Show) cut out THE most intense, creepy part of the film. On the old VHS, there's a part where after the lead male character finds his friend (with his sunglasses still on) dead in a shack(?), the killer is seen in the background coming towards them. He gets closer & closer & closer and it seems as though it takes forever, and nothing jumps out at you, but DANG - that part is CREEPY!!! The gore being cut out sucks as well, but man I was WAAAAY disappointed when the scene I referred to above was cut. Shriek Show sends a comment card with each DVD you purchase, and you can bet your behind that I let them have it! I'm thinking of sending an e-mail as well...I'm disappointed to say the least.

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Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

It sounds like he is mixing two scenes and going by memory (note his mention of " with his sunglasses still on, dead in a shack(?),") which clearly is showing he is going by memory rather than viewing the actual source again.

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

ok, so i just purchased the shriek show dvd, but i dont understand why you guys are complaining that the gore is cut. the only scene i remember from my uncut vhs as being "gory" was the machete through the crotch at the beginning of the film..and on my dvd that scene is intact. in the commentary the director does not point out any spots where footage is missing..but if its extra dialogue i could care less..so what gore is it missing?

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

I never said the gore was cut, others posters mentioned this. I just mentioned that the film overall is missing things here and there. No where on the commentary does Lieberman point out anything missing on the dvd version. You need to play it side by side with the Paragon tape to see everything that was
missing. I have not watched these two side by side for a very long time.

My composite dvd was made from the Paragon tape and the UK disc. So even then I did not view the shriek show disc for that comparison. Last time I watched the SS disc was when it had hit the store shevles aabout 2-3 years back. I am pretty
sure the opening machete scene was cut down however.


Your best bet is to play the paragon tape side by side with the SS dvd. If I have more time during the weekend perhpas I will do (once again) the full deal and take down what is missing and have it posted under alternate versions.

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

ok I compared the two and sent in the info to the imdb.
here are the only differences between the US shriek show disc and the Paragon vhs tape:



1. The shriek show disc cuts right into the film with the “Doro Vlado” credit on the screen. The Paragon tape shows a few extra seconds of the woods before this as it slowly pans to the right and then the “Doro” credit appears


2. Vachel’s death scene (machete through crotch) is cut down by roughly 3-4 seconds on the shriek show dvd. The Paragon tape shows this scene fully uncut.

3. when the group reaches the campsite by driving (“that’s it folks, end of the line”), the Shriek show dvd cuts out two seconds at the end of this scene before the next shot of them exiting the camper occurs.

4. The scene where Megan and Jonathan are playing together in the water (by the waterfall) is cut down by 6 seconds on the shriek show dvd.

5. when Jonathan is kicked back into the water by the killer (later on in the film) his splash back into the river is cut down by two –three seconds on the shriek show dvd

6. The first few seconds of Daniel walking in the graveyard is cut down on the shriek show dvd

7. The scene right after the Ranger picks up Merry Kat on the horse and we see Connie sitting by the fire is cut down on the shriek show dvd. The shriek show starts Connie’s scene about 1 millisecond before you hear the whistle in the woods. The Paragon tape shows her sitting and staring into the fire for a few seconds first and then you hear the whistle

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

my shriek show dvd has the full machete through the crotch scene...

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

well that is kind of impossible. I played them side by side with the shriek show on the left screen and the Paragon tape on the right. Both films had the same speed match and the scene is blatantly cut down by several seconds on the shriek show disc. In fact that cut down scene is what started the whole witch hunts about the shriek show disc being cut.

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

ok well you tell me whats missing..my version the machete goes in ,digs around,the guy grabs at the blade, the blade gets pulled out he slumps over onto the chair...seems complete from what i remember..

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

You really are a jackass. Before you fly off the handle, just listen to yourself

You are arguing with someone who spent several hours playing the two films side by side on two TV screens and who documented all of the differences for you. Your defense against this is as you mentioned: "going by memory" and not by any physically comparing of the two, and I strongly doubt you have some special shriek show dvd that no one else in the world has

keep in mind this scene has already been verified as being cut down by a number of people on this board and others

Here is what I did for you (and those following this), I just made a split screen comparison video for review and research purposes only. The top is the cut down shriek show dvd and the bottom is the uncut paragon tape for the machete death scene. The Paragon audio is used only

Hope this settles things (link is below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG3dFKD-eII




Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

i know im a jackass..and the fact that im pissing you off is hilarious to me...and the full scene is on my dvd so if it upsets you email media blasters and findout what the *beep* is up...

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Did you even bother to look at the comparison clip I put up? Shriek show did not re-release and reissue aanother dvd. It seems as if you are just trying to save face at this point. The clip I upped shows exactly what is on the shriek show dvd and what is a bit longer on the Paragon tape. I hate liars

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

yah i looked at the comparison and im gonna tell you for probably the sixth time now that the full scene is there...i've watched the uncut vhs 1000 times and i know how the scene plays out quite well...i cant explain why its intact on my dvd...but im not gonna argue the fact with you anymore either...everything else you listed as being cut out is misssing though...

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Hey guys, I scan through posts on my films from time to time and only chime in when i have something to add. I'm much less familiar than you guys seem to be on what was cut out of what version of the film, but dig this. My original cut, which I still have in 3/4 inch tape, ran almost thirteen minutes LONGER than any of these versions. It also contained Brad Feidel's music in tact, without any of those hoky sound effect laden cues put in later (not by me) to pump up some of the horror moments to play like a more conventional horror movie of the time, particulary the scene at the Church right after the stabbing. Brad did almost none of that. Anyway, I was told my cut was 'too slow' and 'arty' and since even in the released form moves at a slower pace than 'Slashers' of that time, I suppose it did need some cutting. Just thought I'd chime in with this because you guys are talking about seconds and frames missing when there are actual SCENES missing-- well not missing, but were cut out of my director's cut.
Hey, thanks for the interest in the film after all these years!

best Jeff Lieberman

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

hypothetically if you are who you say you are, than you might be interested in the older UK dvd release by Odeon (see below).

Firstly I made this here which you and others would probably be very interested in:

http://fanedit.org/365/


second:
on a side note:
Pretty much the UK disc is roughly an alternate version of the film with roughly 9 mins not in any known US version (though some scenes are cut out that are present in US editions). It also had no music ques in many places where the US version had them and vice versa. From the overall quality of the print (note I said print, not dvd authoring) it looks like it was a near to final rough print/edit of the film.



Deathangel_70
Yeah you know where I stand on this and the actual proof I supplied, unlike yourself. At any rate I am done arguing about it as well.

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

yep, I am who i say i am. just like popeye says, I ams who I ams. But i never challenged any 'proof' of anything because I could care less about the minutia of what frames or seconds were cut out of what versions of the film. I was merely pointing out that there is a director's cut version, my version, that is way longer than any of these. But once again, I'm thankful that there are people like you who still care enough about a low budget film made in 1980 that you would spend your time on this stuff. You have to on some level care about the movie itself to be doing this and that really does mean something to me. JL

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Hey Jeff,
Thank you for the kind words. I do love that film. Actually I like all of your films (though I have yet to see Satan's little helper). If it makes you feel better I just picked up a super 8 sound version for Squirm (which I was told had the color degrade to a pink. be interesting to see what it looks like now).

Just before dawn is and has always been (in my view) a step above your average "slasher" film. I would kill for a true score soundtrack release of somekind. I am also glad you decided to do the commentary on the shriek show disc. I met you a few years back at a Chiller expo. You were pissed off about not getting paid anything (or it was not as much as you wanted) for the Shriekshow disc and were not going to do the commentary because of it, glad you changed your mind


I mentioned the UK disc, because this sounds close to the dirs cut version that you still have on 3/4" tape


Drop me a PM. I would love for you to have the composite disc I painstakingly put together (post above yours that I made with the fanedit.org link). I can also provide a list of exactly what is in the UK version that is not in the US. I am still curious about the print used on this recent UK disc

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Hey Jeff,
You mentioned you still had a dir's cut on 3/4 tape that had scenes not in the US edition and was 13 mins longer. You also mentioned lack of music ques. The footage I used to make my disc (ultimate composite print), sounds very similar to his dir's cut you were was talking about. The first UK disc (made by Odeon) had most of the music cues eliminated. The extra 9 mins that is in the UK disc is really close to 13 mins since the UK disc is in PAL format and a true conversion to ntsc will slow down the running time making that extra footage close to the 13 min mark. The film itself (not dvd authoring) was in rough shape and seems to have been a possible rough cut of somekind.

Could it be that your original dir's cut is the same as the UK disc? I can provide copies if needed. Most of the extra footage that appears is all characterization and a completely different edit of when they are first driving up to the mountain.

Like the 3 alt versions info, and the Shreik show and Paragon tape comparisons I have listed under "alternate versions" on the imdb, I will add the listing of what appears in this UK version and what is not in the US.

I would love to have you verify if indeed this print is your preferred dir's cut

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

I truly thinks it's amazing to see the director posting here with us.

The first purchase I ever made on Ebay in 99' was the Paragon VHS tape. I bought the Shreik Show dvd 2 years ago.

Then I was given an avi xvid file of the film by a friend that contains the entire machete scene in widescreen. I know that this came from the newsgroups. Not sure who or where the print came from but it certainly has more in it than the Shreik Show dvd.

So what I guess I don't get, is how this copy I have can look as good as it does (it didn't come off a vhs) and contain a scene that I'm hearing only is available thru poor vhs transfers in Fullscreen..??

Just_Before_Dawn(1981)_UNCUT_WS.DVDrip.DrWest.avi

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Sent you another reply email, not sure if you got it?

As I mentioned in the email, the film itself seems to have been shot open matte full frame. It is not a true widescreen film.

Making a fullframe (or any frame) film appear anamorphic widescreen is a very simple process.

about the quality of your clip:
Depending on condition and use you can find very good copies of the Paragon tape still floating around. It was supposedly also offered on laserdisc and would more than likely have a step up above it's vhs counter parts. The transfer itself was not bad and in my own vhs copies edition, it is still pretty decent.

You also have a ton of video restoration equipment and software that can truly cleanup a signal and make it appear better than it's original source.

the scene you are talking about could have been composite made using just the machete blade when it is through the crotch and with the rest coming from the shriek show dvd

It is easy enough to do. In the SS dvd's defense, the 7 scenes I mentioned (under alternate versions) are mere seconds in length. Essentially if it was not for the machete scene, the shriek show dvd would be close to fully uncut.

Was the machete scene the only difference on the divx file you got a hold of?

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

it looks like a special edition from CMV laser in Gemrany released the film uncut and remastered. This is where that clip you had came from. Check here for more info:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082592/board/thread/117630172

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

well it is not fully uncut (but damn close) check the link in my above post with an updated reply now that I had time to check out the disc myself=

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

Mr. Lieberman himself posting on the board here. How freakin' cool is that?

And he couldn't be more RIGHT. The fact I think the film itself is SO great is what keeps me constantly looking for the 'perfect version' of it, even after 20 some years have past.

As it stands, I have the Paragon VHS, the finally released USA DVD, the overseas (R2?) DVD and the Horror Classics compilation DVD. Thankfully, none of them was ridiculously expensive, but it's insane that each version IS different in some way from the other.

I hadn't seen the film in years, but I could still tell things were missing when I first popped in the USA DVD release, and I was SO disappointed. And don't get me wrong, that's meant as a compliment. Nothing DRASTIC was changed, but I was still "so disappointed" it wasn't exactly like I remembered it - and this is, as it was put, a low-budget film from 1981 that most people never took notice of. Shows you how much it stuck with me.

An awesome, creepy little film.

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Wait a minute... who am I here?

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

All you need now is my ultimate composite disc and you are set to go (link below)

http://fanedit.org/365/


99% of you people send me PM's with questions and never bother to check that I replied to them.

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

I did! I did!



And thanks again, by the way.

IMDB really needs some sort of 'notifier' that tells you when you have a new private message or, if they do, I need to learn how to use it - lol.

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Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

IMDB is horrible for PM's, however in your account settings you can have the imdb email you when people reply to your post AND when you get Pm's

99% of you people send me PM's with questions and never bother to check that I replied to them.

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This message has been deleted.

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?


i know im a jackass..and the fact that im pissing you off is hilarious to me


Wow, finally an honest troll.

There is the Internet troll's philosophy in black and white. (Well, black and grey, anyway.)

Re: Anyone compare the R1 dvd to the Paragon VHS?

That jackass wasn't trolling, he probably snagged the illegal downloaded version of just before dawn which at that time happened to be a rip of the CMV dvd disc which is the same print shriekshow used, but they added the whole machete death scene.

So when he was saying

"it was on the one I bought"

he was really saying

"I don't have enough balls to tell you guys that I downloaded the film and it is on this version"

99% of you people send me PM's with questions and never bother to check that I replied to them.
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