Homeland : Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Those comments and sentiments were stupid, it was nothing but a cheap
superficial an attempt at some kind of "TV" balance for people who do not
understand the situation. Presumably a "real" Saul would understand and
have something more relevant and realistic to say. He said something like
why would you want to live where people hate you or don't want you ... and
that pretty much describes the whole of Israel. The settlements are a non-
violent way to fight in a war where Israel is usually criticized for using too
much force to respond to ongoing weak but existential attacks from Palestinians.
There is a great documentary called "Hamas" where they should and document
real video clips from inside Gaza and how unstable and crazy the people who
run the lives of Gazans are. This is a a group that is supposed to have the
maturity and integrity to run a whole country in the world? (Hardly)

The idea of the settlements makes a lot of sense, but whatever Israel does
they get attacked and criticized for.

1. The settlements are a non-violent solution in the middle of what is really a
war declared and sustained by Hamas/the Palestinians. It is the Palestinians'
main goal according to their charter to destroy Israel, first, before any other
goal. Yet, Israel gets blamed for defending itself from that.

2. If and when Palestine does attain statehood, and it seems to me that any
country that is 100% devoted to warfare and does not have a stable
government, not to mention their whole culture being devoted to destroying
Israel ... why should they get a state at this point. But I digress, a Palestinian
state is supposed to be free of Jews - that is, Palestinian Arabs live in Israel,
but any Palestinian state would not allow Jews to live there? That is a solution
for perpetual problems. Statehood would merely give Palestine cover to continue
to militarily attack Israel.

3. Slowly building up the number of Jews in whatever area a Palestinian state
would exist in put a timer on the whole thing, that instead of time being on the
side of the Palestinians, it puts a pressure on them such that the long they take
to come to their senses and make peace the more Jews they have to deal with.
Time used to be thought of by the Palestinians as being on their side, the settlements
reverse that sense.

I think Saul Berenson would never say of think that - it was downright stupid for
someone who bascially supports Israel so strongly. It was a cheap political ploy
worthy of the criticism this season has wrongly gotten for showing a kid caught up
in terrorism by the FBI/Homeland Security. This comment on his sister is much
more fake and worthy of criticism.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

You are correct. Saul would have never said that under previous producers. This show has been hijacked.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Yes, it was a cheap way for the writers to get a Jewish character in the show to condemn Israel and for Homeland to show support for the Palestinians.

This was so viewers could say" See? Even Saul condemns Israel."

This season has a political agenda and that is to show total support for Muslims and free speech. I read that in the newspapers.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

I wouldn't say that it is a support for muslims and free speech, but rather to use the show and characters as a means to subtly re-define what muslims and free speech mean. I was somewhat amused the other day when I read in a paper that sales of 1984 are way up, which is ironic since it has always been the PC crowd which has redefined words to as to alter their meaning, you know, how illegal immigrants somehow became more acceptable as undocumented workers.

It seems the strategy of our enemies is to get everything redefined as neutral and equal, which then requires more effort in order to ferret out the bad elements. Take searches at airports. We can either spend our resources and energy examining those who would statistically be more likely to cause mayhem, or we could examine everyone at a greater cost and inconvenience. Back when I was a kid, this was called "good policing." Most crimes were committed by a small group of the criminal element, so when a crime was committed, they were the first to be checked out as a perpetrator. But nowadays, this has been redefined as profiling, and is therefore bad. And those who benefit the most are the criminals. Yes, some innocents may get caught in the loop because of a resemblance to those who commit the majority of crimes.

Homeland is doing a horrible job at whatever they are trying to accomplish. They create a character who at the base level has literally painted a target on himself as a person of interest. He isn't just some random brown-skinned kid off the street going about his business who gets picked up and shaken down. He is quite literally yanking the tail of the tiger, and then acting all surprised at what happened. Reminds me of the kids in Baltimore who dress up like street thugs, and then get treated as such. du-uH! Social Darwinism in its purest form. And on the other side we have a higher level FBI agent who has nothing better to do than go above and beyond to entrap some kid. What is the risk- reward for his behavior? If he wins, they accomplish nothing but add a statistic while at the same time diverting resources away from the real problem. If they lose, well, it then makes it much easier for the bad people to do their thing.

And to think this was written even before the new sheriff got to town. ;-)

My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Wow, just...wow.

I am not a blind-to-danger PC'er at all, I see the problems of the world, I don't just err on the side of political correctness in any way. Your post is typical of the reactionary mentality of many on one "side of the aisle". The fallacy of your "arguments" are present within your very post.

I can't actually see your (long) post as I'm replying so I'm probably not going to reply to the entire thing but: The methods of policing you describe from your youth, what might be called the "round up the Usual Suspects" method, in your own words, should involve only criminals. But in the very next thoughts you put forth, you advocate Profiling an entire race. If you can't see the problem with that, we will just agree to disagree.

I wonder what your reaction would be if you were detained in a foreign country because you looked a certain way, even though you'd never committed a criminal act. And if you have the idea that people who look like you never commit terrorist acts, you'd be wrong because all peoples have done so.

That you think this is all caused by political correctness is laughable.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Oh, and the other point I wanted to respond to: how was Saku(sp?) "yanking the tiger's tail"? So far it's been established that he did absolutely nothing wrong, he wasn't trying to invite violence or call others to arms, he simPly described certain well-known anti-American attacks, and described what he saw as the sentiment behind them. In other words, he expressed an opinion. And he was entrapped. This is Homeland canon, it's all there for you to see, and the fact that you can take it all in, yet see it any other way is telling.

Maybe you're trolling, but probably not, your post was long, it took some time to write, doesn't seem trollish. But, wow, I know there are people out there who really believe those things but it's still strange to see it written on a message board, getting it so wrong, yet believing it's so right.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel


Saul would have never said that under previous producers. This show has been hijacked.


The writers are still the very same like in season 1, what new producers are you talking about and why do you think they hold more influence than the writers?

It's also amazing how this show is considered anything from "anti Islam" to "anti Jewish" over "liberal drivel" to "conservative propaganda", I guess that means the show does something right.

Btw, here is a 2012 article about how "obviously anti-semitic" the show is because Saul isn't the perfect Jewish human being: http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/119607/homeland-is-obviously-anti-semitic

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

People can have different opinions, and some can be right and some can be wrong. The show may be flawed. ie not perfect, but it is pretty good and very interesting. That is an interesting article but it seems to argue both ways. I think it is perhaps the one thing that must be avoided on these political TV shows, and that is to do something or do a lot of little things that seem to be taking sides. The shows can be ridiculous, but they cannot be slanted or partisan.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel


That is an interesting article but it seems to argue both ways.


The article was merely an example of how the show was already perceived by some as being "anti-Semite" a long time before any change of producers supposedly happened.


The shows can be ridiculous, but they cannot be slanted or partisan.


The best evidence for something not being slanted/partisan is when you have "both sides" complaining how slanted/partisan something supposedly is because "truth" is rarely popular. Over the years Homeland has done a pretty good job of doing exactly that.

It's also way closer to reality than the usual partisan thinking, reality isn't made up of black vs white, good vs bad or right vs wrong. Clear cut differentiations like that only exist in fairy tales and dogma.
For what it's worth reality is a big mess of gray, people just end up attributing black/white from their subjective positions.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

You cannot use the balance of pro/con comments on something to determine the
truth value of it PERIOD. For one thing there is nothing that equalizes comments
out or says that comments are like the flips of a coin and must be predictable or
have an "expected value".

For another thing, Republicans have used fake crowds of supporters to generate
this exact appearance of a lot of people supporting their policies, when in fact that
is where the idea of "astroturfing" came from ... ie fake "grass-roots" support.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel


You cannot use the balance of pro/con comments on something to determine the
truth value of it PERIOD.


That wasn't my argument at all, that's also why I put "truth" in captions like that.
"Truth" often ends up being just as subjective as the attribution of "good vs bad", because reality isn't based on binary dichotomies, like you are suggesting when you talk about "equalizing" and "coin flipping", that's pure partisan thinking.

To use another example of which the IMDb boards are a prime example: On some boards here Hollywood is described as run by "The conservative white old men club", on other boards it's described as "The propaganda wing of liberals", it all depends on what movie/series board you look.

So what is the "truth" about Hollywood? Is it the "rich white old men club" that doesn't like to have minorities in their movies? Or is it the liberal propaganda wing trying to shove the "diversity NWO" down our throats?

It's none of those, because "Hollywood" isn't some homogeneous monolithic entity, rarely anything in reality is. People just like to set up these false dichotomies because otherwise they would struggle with understanding the complexities of opinions that exist in actual reality.

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Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

I disagree - you can support Israel and still think they are handling things incorrectly. And Saul mentioned that the husband was a fanatic who couldn't see other sides; and that caused a divide between the family. So his feelings about the subject, as he discussed with his sister, are more personal.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

I did not say you could not support Israel and still condemn the settlements ... it is a controversial issue, but I think mostly supported for the reasons I mentioned. I just do not think it likely that the character of Saul would feel that way or talk to his sister like that.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

The thing he said about bulldozing Arabs homes - never happend,
So ok you can be anti-settelments - but get the facts right.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

No he was right. Promised by some ancient cavefvckers who put it on a deity, wrote it down, and caused people to kill each other ever since. For thousand+ years.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Oh, I agree with his conclusions on relgions and the writings in books thousands of years old.
But, it is not about religion really, and the people killing each other have not really been ever
since, it's been every since Mohammed died and his followers began going around the world
forcing people to be Muslims or Dhimmis. There are some interesting and well researched
books and You-Tube lectures by Dr. Andrew Bostom about the history of Islam. Jews never
did this, and they are defending themselves. Funny that no matter what they do, including
buidling settlements, which seems about the most non-violent way to fight a war, they get
blamed equally - especially when it is the Palestinians who refuse to recognize Israel's right
to exist.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Ever since, starting with the Romans well before there was Islam.
It takes 2 to tango. All sides claim self-defense, works out well doesn't it.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

>> All sides claim self-defense

Yeah, that is why you have to look at reality.
Look at the wars and who started them.
Look at who oppressed who for centuries.
Look at who took terrorism to the world.
Look at who brainwashed their children to dress up as suicide bombers at age 3.
Who fires rockets at whom?
Whose primary goal is to destroy whom?
If you don't know the answers to these questions, then you have no business
making sarcastic statements.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

All sides claim reality.

All sides claim to be oppressed.

All sides claim the other is brainwashed.

If you don't know history, you have no business thinking you're right and the other side is wrong.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Yes, all sides have their own stories ... that is why you have to seach
for the truth and what makes sense, even though it is difficult and not
always black and white. Look at Muslim society, and Islam in general.
There is a history of Dhimmitude, or treating non-Muslims as virtual
sub-humans, and an entitlement to even kill non-Muslims or convert
them - to this very day. It doesn't mean the Jews are perfect, but they
do not have a society or religion where they try to dominate the world.
In fact more and more Jews are secular ... which is a crime in the Muslim
faith, at least in fundamentalist societies, which is the majority.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

What was wrong with his comments? Jews have no right being in the West Bank. His sister seems proud of deliberately annoying Arabs. Any rational person would consider that contentious behaviour.



Get on the scale son! Get off the scale.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

>> Jews have no right being in the West Bank.

Why not? Palestinian Arabs live in Israel. Are you one of those who believe and are
agreeable to the entire state of Palestine being "ethnically cleansed" of all Jews?

Just how do you think that would contribute to peace in the region?

So Saul's sister living in a West Bank Settlement is being "contentious", so what
are Palestinians being when they fire rocket bombs into Israel, or set off suicide
vests, or walk in public places and suddenly pull out knives and start stabbing
people?

I think due your Beavis icon you are either being stupid or just trolling to annoy.
Why do people do stuff like that. Why don't you go read a book about this
subject so you are not so deathly ignorant about things?

Go watch the video "Hamas" to get some idea of what life is like in Gaza for
example.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel


Are you one of those who believe and are agreeable to the entire state of Palestine being "ethnically cleansed" of all Jews?


Who argued for that here or in Homeland? And why do you think that a two-state solution would equal an "ethnical cleansing of Jews"?


Just how do you think that would contribute to peace in the region?


Do you think building illegal settlements is contributing to the peace?
Oh wait I already know the answer to that:


so what are Palestinians being when they fire rocket bombs into Israel, or set off suicide vests, or walk in public places and suddenly pull out knives and start stabbing
people?


So because some Palestinians act irrationally that's an excuse for Israelis to act irrationally? You realize two wrongs don't make a right?

The illegal settlements are equally "unjust" as random acts of violence committed by Palestinians, which btw are also committed by Jewish settlers when they commit "price tag" attacks. There are victims and perpetrators on both sides of this conflict, anybody who exclusively blames one side of the conflict for all the "evils and wrongs" exposes himself as just another fanatic.

This is just another example of partisan thinking to the extreme, whole populations acting on a kindergarden level of "But he started it!". All this is especially sad considering that large part of this whole situation is supposedly "justified" by religious dogma from an ancient book, a book that's proven to be full of historical half-truths if not flat out lies.

In that regard, Saul was spot on when he called it "insanity". The needs and realities of currently living people should outweigh obscure dogmatic texts written hundreds of years ago by a couple of goat herders.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Whoa, hold up... So what you're saying is that if Jews stopped building their illegal settlements in the West Bank it would have no effect on peace? I call BS on that logic.


Get on the scale son! Get off the scale.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Thanks for this!
It looks like BDS propoganda which is based mostly on lies enterd the writers minds.

It's sad to see that Israel is becoming something to hate in America, while we are such a great and democratic nation.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

The real Saul would tell her sister the truth, that Israel did 911 and created Al Quaeda and ISIS.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Yeah, and the Jews forced you to make that post as well. IG-NORED

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

It did strike me as odd that Saul would say something like that because I always assumed he was Pro-Israel. I do agree with him however.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

As I've said in other comments in this thread, the settlements may be controversial, but they are a better way to pressure the Palestinians than war and violence. And again, the question of a Palestinian state being totally Muslim, ethnically cleansed of Jews, or whoever else, to allow them to brainwash their children as they do and train them to be terrorist militants, but in their own country ... I think Israel and every other thinking person in the world has a stake in that not happening. The Palestinian Muslims are backwards in terms of sociology. Their culture is brutal, violent and intolerant. Left on their own with support from the rich oil states there will be nothing good that come of a such a state. The Palestinians serve the function of a proxy military that radicals in Iran, Saudi Arabia and other countries back up because they cannot outright attack Israel. The whole idea of Muslims hating and wanting to kill the Jews is something that needs to not go into the future - it needs to end, one way or the other. Listen to some of the talks on this subject from Andrew Bostom and watch some of the videos of Palestinian child indoctrination ... it's really disgusting.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Is it not possible for a reasonable man like Saul to be for Israel, yet criticize the Israeli bulldozing and hijacking of land?

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel



The idea of the settlements makes a lot of sense, but whatever Israel does
they get attacked and criticized for.


Lol, the idea of building houses over the bodies of innocent natives makes so much sense indeed..

Aya A.R

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

-- the idea of building houses over the bodies of innocent natives

One reason this situation never changes is the constant ... mischaracterization from
the anti-Israeli side - and not just mischaracterization - but a total unwillingness to
admit to what their own side is doing, what they are fighting for, and their own errors
and sins.

While it is true that Israel, in seeking a response for something that no one and no
people should ever have to respond to, has bulldozed houses of suicide bombers
and terrorists, which has occasionally led to the deaths or people, some of them
innocent as well, or relatively innocent - the point is that Israel is not doing that
any longer, and the settlements are not that. You comment is a falsehood.

You and the supporters of the Palestinians have one track by which you make
exaggerated, and often untrue claims about Israel - but you never talk about what
the Palestinians are all about, what they do, what they are taught as children,
and what is the primary goal of their so-called nation.

Granted there are many innocent people caught up in the middle of the Palestinian
situation. Like most people in the world these days we are all hostages and slaves
to our different governments. But the Palestinian people have it worse than most,
yet even in that situation they continue to have one of the highest birthrates and
population growth of any population anywhere, even as they claim genocide from
the Israelis.

This situation might have some hope of a long path to peace if you people who
support the Palestinians understood the situation even half as well as you pretend
to, and would stop thinking you are so self-righteous. Look at the actions of Islam
all over the world, go back in the past, One of the major issues is that Muslims
simply cannot admit to something they are born and forced to accept, that Islam
is an intolerant militant religion and if it had the means it would be still be marching
and converting people by force. No, certainly not all Muslims, and there are some
small fraction of nuts is other religions, but in almost every other religion that is
what it is - a small fraction of nuts.

Anyway, I think that is a wrong thing to say, and I think the only reason to say
something like that is to try to argue against the Israelis without actually having
to deal with the real big picture and how this whole thing can be solved.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

Lol man, this is so much nonsense here..
The houses of those "suicide bombers" that Israel had bulldozered, I wonder, why did they become "suicide bombers" (even tho this is another non sense but np) so why did they even head to that direction anyways? I mean before Israel suddenly decided to appear in THEIR lands, were they "suicide bombers" ? And without Israel's illegitimate existence, who would they have to "bomb" ? Pretty much NO ONE! Because no one else was stealing their lands and installing themselves on it forcefully! What right did they even have to come and decide to build a new county on someone's else ALREADY EXISTING country?
Also are you telling me that Israel does not TERRORIZE innocent Palestinians? I think the definition of Terrorism should redirect to the existence of Israel. Count the children that died on the hands of fanatic zionsts and Israeli airstrikes first then come here and talk to me.
I got nothing against Judaism and I respect ALL religions, I have jewish friends from Israel (not the west bank though) and they are friendly and nice and condemn all the crimes the Israeli army commits against the unarmed Palestinians because Judaism itself isn't encouraging violence nor terrorism nor does it encourage the thief of land Israel is committing, its no surpirse to me that people like Saul do exist, many many many many Jews that do not want to have anything to do with Israel and never for a split second have they considered moving there. Being a Jewish is 1 thing but being a murderer zionst is another.

Aya A.R

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

> Lol man, this is so much nonsense here..

Always a good way to logically refute someone in a debate, when you have nothing else to say.
If you think I don't have better things that to engage in preschool debates with fools like you,
let me tell you, I do, and I am going to do them right now.

If you don't want kids and innocents getting killed, then first, don't provoke a war, second make
peace, and third because a tolerent culture. Oh, and it would help not to hold you wars and put
your soldiers and munitions by schools, hospitals and residential areas - that shows who the
barbarians are. They do not hold life sacred ... especially when it is anyone elses.

You on ignored now.

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel


If you don't want kids and innocents getting killed, then first, don't provoke a war


Here is a brilliant idea to avoid provoking a war, STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S COUNTRIES!

And you complain about them using MINIMUM armed defense now? Israel only preyed on Palestine in the first place (back in the last century) because Palestinians have always been vulnerable and barely had any real army, they never engaged in wars and never had trouble with their neighbors (history is out there, you can check it on your own) and those zionists found them an easy population to defeat, zionists started performing military training and importing heavy weapons from Europe while all Palestinians did was watching helplessly. So basically Israel is a bully and all they do is terror weaker others (history again can prove this) Remember when they tried to pull this kind of BS on Egypt in the late 60s but the Egyptians proved to not be a weak prey and fought back hard untill Israel ended up losing a big war in 1973 on the hands on the Egyptian army in the most humiliating way ever? So no wonder that in the 80s after they rebuilt a little, they went to the Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon and cold bloodily slaughtered innocent children and women (Sabra and Shatila massacre) because that is ALL the coward Israelis can do, prey on the unarmed weak helpless innocents because preying on the strong ones simply does not work so they only go to the weak ones and start the bullying over and over again then whine and cry when those they prey on try to DEFEND themselves. So please, if they wanted "peace" then they could have very easily stayed the heck out of other people countries, but when Egypt won the war against Israel, Israel went and cried to USA to help them "make peace" with Egyptian former president El Saddat, so hey, look! Israel CAN make peace when they want to, why don't they make it with the Palestinians and stop air striking the the living hell outta them on regular basis? Or they only know of the word "peace" when they're being defeated so as long as they're winning then *beep* peace" , right ?

Aya A.R

Re: Saul's comments to his sister in Israel

The Trump Admin just echoed Saul's comments to his sister. Who's watching the show, @realDonaldTrump ?
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