Close Encounters of the Third Kind : Bad father? Seriously?

Bad father? Seriously?

I'm disgusted by all the housewives in this forum moaning that no, Roy shouldn't have left his family, he was such a bad father for abandoning his wife and casting upon her the burden pf paying the bills and so on and so on

Really people?! It's not like he went on a vacation with his mates to Honolulu, neither did he leave everything behind to live a new life with his mistress! HE MET EXTRATERRESTRIAL BEINGS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! THIS WAS HIS DREAM, HIS OBSESSION! Get that inside your petty bourgeois minds if you can! This is bigger than anything he had ever lived or wished for so far. Imagine him pondering "well, yeah, I could follow that alien, but what about my family life in Indiana? Yeah, scrap that UFO stuff, I got a predestined middle class life to live!" OF COURSE HE'D GET ON THAT SHIP, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Nothing but pity for you people.

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Re: Bad father? Seriously?

"Yeah, any adult's first concern should be centred around what they want, right?"

No. You, too, are missing the point.
Roy didn't leave his kids on a whim, but for something more important than his own kids, himself even, something significant to the entire humanity. HE DIDN'T JUST GO FOR A RIDE WITH HIS FRIENDS. Put things into their right perspective.

Re: Seriously? Yeah, I'd say so.


Roy didn't leave his kids on a whim, but for something more important than his own kids, himself even, something significant to the entire humanity.



Can you tell us specifically what about his departure with the aliens is more important than himself, and even his own kids, that nobody else there (the red suited scientists, for example) could've gone in his place?

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

He was picked, he didn't ask for it, have you even seen the movie?
If you can't understand why the experience of meeting a life form from space is more important than whatever you may have done on earth, especially to a person who's obsessed with extraterrestrial activity, you're either proving my initial point or trolling, or both, so stop wasting my time.

Re: Seriously? Yeah, I'd say so.

He was picked, he didn't ask for it,

So?

have you even seen the movie?

Many times. I even rated it a 9, so that 4 rating you gave it rather surprises me.


If you can't understand why the experience of meeting a life form from space is more important than whatever you may have done on earth,

Yes, if this ever happens to you, be sure and tell the tots that seeing them grow up, and helping them along the way as a committed parent would tend to do, and those big moments in their lives that you won't be there for are far less important than whatever the aliens want you for. They'll understand.

so stop wasting my time.

Getting angry doesn't do much to support your point. And who forced you to respond?

I am not angry.

Okay, but telling another poster they're wasting your time isn't exactly friendly.


I don't need to support my point either, you did a great job all by yourself.

So, if I'm reading you correctly here, you contend that the mysterious intentions of the aliens trumps all those important days in the lives of Roy's children that, because of the aliens, he's going to miss?


The fact that I didn't like the movie is irrelevant by the way.

I only point it out because you're dismissing a criticism that people have long held about "CE3K" and yet you don't like the movie. I do like the film, even though I consider said criticism to be valid. It just seems a touch ironic.








Re: Bad father? Seriously?

I am not angry. I don't need to support my point either, you did a great job all by yourself.
The fact that I didn't like the movie is irrelevant by the way. Have a good day.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?


Have a good day.



Same to ya.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Hahahah, so you replied to my last post by editing the post I replied to? And you did that one day after my last post? How dumb is that? Or just pathetic? Or maybe both.
Oh, the cases you come across on these boards! :D

Re: Yeah, seriously.

Hahahah, so you replied to my last post by editing the post I replied to? And you did that one day after my last post? How dumb is that? Or just pathetic? Or maybe both.


No, you were getting surly so I responded within my own previous message in order to speak to your comments while still giving you what you seemed to want (a friendly capitulation) in my later direct reply.


Oh, the cases you come across on these boards! :D

You can say that again. Some people just can't accept opinions that differ from their own without getting intolerant and even resorting to insults. Check this out:


I'm disgusted by all the housewives in this forum moaning that no, Roy shouldn't have left his family

Really people?! HE MET EXTRATERRESTRIAL BEINGS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! THIS WAS HIS DREAM, HIS OBSESSION! Get that inside your petty bourgeois minds if you can!

Nothing but pity for you people.



Can you believe that?

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

I would rather x1000 to leave with my mistress to Honolulu, but hey that's just me.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

There are some people who see parenthood as the greatest, ultimate end-all of human existence. But I'm of the opinion that there are things bigger and more significant than family. Yes, it would have to be something extraordinary.

No one complains about:

John McClane fighting terrorists and thieves when he;s got two kids at home

Widower and President Whitmore flying off to fight aliens when he's got a daughter who just lost her mom

Astronauts who left their families and the planet to go walk on the moon

Kids who left home to go find One-Eyed Willie's treasure

Sarah Connor ditching her son in the desert with a terminator to go kill a computer technician

We could go on and on about parents in movies who ventured off to do great and significant things.


I dont need you to tell me how good my coffee is..
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Re: Bad father? Seriously?


John McClane fighting terrorists and thieves when he's got two kids at home.


But gabby, he was locked in the Nakatomi building when the terrorists took the place, and his wife was one of the hostages.


Astronauts who left their families and the planet to go walk on the moon


Okay, to a degree I see your point. However, they weren't leaving the Earth for decades like the Flight 19 crew.


Sarah Connor ditching her son in the desert with a terminator to go kill a computer technician


But we gotta acknowledge that she is trying to save the world (and John) from Skynet. Still, yeah, she's not exactly an ideal parent.


Widower and President Whitmore flying off to fight aliens when he's got a daughter who just lost her mom.


Ah, now there I think we finally agree, gabby. That one always bothered me, too because, yeah, not only does he have a young daughter who doesn't need to lose both her parents, but he's also the commander in chief. And as such, he's supposed to stay alive to oversee the resistance and lead the nation like he was elected to do. He's really such a top gun that all those fighters attacking the mother ships can't get the job done without him? And if Obama isn't allowed to have a black berry, then it seems reasonable that the Secret Service, the people whose job it is to keep him alive, would step in and tell him

"President Whitmore, we cannot allow you to personally lead this attack, so get outta that cockpit before we drag you outsir."









Re: Bad father? Seriously?


But gabby, (McClane) was locked in the Nakatomi building when the terrorists took the place, and his wife was one of the hostages.


But is that a good reason to fight the terrorists? Or to do everything you can to stay alive for your kids? And even though I might fudge on his actions in the first movie, in Die Hard 2 he's got no excuse. He's just looking for trouble!


(astronauts) weren't leaving the Earth for decades like the Flight 19 crew.


They could very well have been leaving Earth for the rest of their lives!

To paraphrase Han Solo, "Going to the moon strapped to a stick of dynamite ain't like dusting crops, boy"






I dont need you to tell me how good my coffee is..
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Re: Bad father? Seriously?

All those people did those things because they were protecting either their loved ones or the world.

Not because they felt like it.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

The astronauts were protecting people or the planet by going to the moon?
People leave their families to go climb a mountain or river rafting or whatever. I'm sure they plan to come back, and home to their loved ones. I'm sure Roy intended that too. it didn't appear to me that Roy knew this would be the last time he saw Earth as he knew it.



I dont need you to tell me how good my coffee is..
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Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Well, let's keep in mind that his "wife" didn't stick by his side through any of this. She was neither compassionate nor understanding of what Roy was going through; she was just worried about what everyone else was thinking.

"Mulder, toads just fell from the sky!"

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

He let his obsession with the image in his head control him to the point where his family had to leave because they were so scared and he was throwing bushes and bricks through the window. He then left on a trip, and didn't bother telling his wife or children goodbye first. He smooched on the neighbor lady who he'd known for all of two days before boarding a spaceship with aliens that he knew NOTHING ABOUT.

He wasn't fighting an enemy or risking his life to keep his family or anyone else safe. He wasn't doing important work. He wasn't forced to leave.

He simply was intrigued by the mountain and the aliens and up and left immediately with them.

ZERO hesitation. No 'say bye to my kids for me.' No debate. No decision to make. He left on a whim because he wanted to.

Name me another movie where the hero abandons his family without any thought or guilt whatsoever to pursue other things just because they want to. If you can think of a movie that fits, I'm betting that character isn't seen as a hero.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Superman? he ditched his old, decrepit mother alone on a farm to go "find himself".


By definition, you're right. A hero would have a heroic reason for doing what they are doing. But Roy isn;t a hero. Roy is an everyman, embarking on an unprecedented adventure. It's not heroic. it's not life-saving nor an earth=threatening event (which is why the president in ID4 gets a pass). it's not even a cat stuck up in a tree. It's something personal. Deeply personal. And possibly brainwashed into his head, irrevocably. But that doesn;t make it wrong for a man to explore things above and beyond his ability to love his family.

And it IS important work. As much as going to the moon or seeking out new life on the ocean floor. The quest for a greater understanding of our universe is important work. But it's not for everyone. Hell the fact that only Roy and Jillian made it to the mountain while thousands of others didn;t demonstrates that others lacked the courage or maintained their earth-bound priorities. Case in point, if Barry wasn;t abducted, I highly doubt Jill would have been there. Roy was one of the rare ones who saw this as bigger than the mortgage or the plumbing or the wife and kids. This doesn;t make him a bad person, though I can see how that makes him poorly domesticated -aka a bad husband/father.



I dont need you to tell me how good my coffee is..
.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

I was going to mention some form of brainwashing, too.

As Roy says, "this means something", that of all of the ones trained to go with the aliens, HE was the one chosen.

His entire quest was to find answers. He would have probably been driven (even) crazy(-ier) if he wasn't able to see this whole thing through.



Ay me, sad hours seem long

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Remember everybody, Ronnie is the one who left! She loaded the kids in the station wagon and very angrily and recklessly drove away hitting a tricycle while backing up (it's just a lucky thing there was no child riding it) and very nearly running over Roy as she sped away!

Re: Bad father? Seriously?


Remember everybody, Ronnie is the one who left! She loaded the kids in the station wagon and very angrily and recklessly drove away hitting a tricycle while backing up (it's just a lucky thing there was no child riding it) and very nearly running over Roy as she sped away!


That's true, and she actually threatened to hit Tobey if he didn't get in the car. I don't care that much about Roy's marriage ending over this (they didn't seem likeminded on much of anything). It's the not seeming to consider his kids when he leaves with the aliens that's kinda' tough to pardon.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

he probably thought about his kids when the priest dude was blessing them and their journey


I dont need you to tell me how good my coffee is..
.

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Re: Bad father? Seriously?

A bit of both sides here. I understand the appeal and it sure is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I can see why he did it, and I think most of us would take the opportunity to if offered. Cause that's what happened to Roy: he was chosen.
Kinda hard to turn it down.
I mean people has always had a fascination with outer space. Already now there is talk about living on Mars and similar. That there will be expeditions there and people will live, breath there for years and years.
So that's similar to how this is.

On the other hand leaving everything behind isn't an easy task either. Just leave it like that is a bit stupid, without even saying goodbye to his kids at least. I mean the next time they will see him is like 35 years later, if even then.
The kids might even forget they had a father.
But at least he has something to tell them when he returns:)

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

When the world is full of bad fathers it should be no big deal to see one that kind of neglects his kids and family in a make believe story only made to entertain us.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

It would be interesting to see the reactions if Barry's mother had left her child behind without a word to go on the spaceship.
Wouldn't some men think that she is a bad mother?

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Excellent point. There wouldn't be this continuing question about the rightness of Roy leaving at the end if the kids had just been eliminated from the script.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

If the character of Barry's mother had been potrayed exactly like Barry's father in the movie (that is, if we had Ronnie in Roy's place), then, personally, no, I wouldn't consider her a bad mother.

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Re: Bad father? Seriously?

To be chosen out of billions. To go where no human being has ever gone. To learn what no one on earth has ever learned. To see sights never seen or even dreamt of. To be the first to visit the stars.
Or,
Stay in Muncie with a beyotch and the brats.
No brainer.

PS You all assume he'll be gone for many years, but that ain't necessarily so.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

I don't think that would have been the same thing. Barry was an only child and there was no sign of his father (he may have even been deceased). So Barry would have been completely alone. Roy had three kids, so they had each other and their mom.

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Re: Bad father? Seriously?

GTFO with that feminist logic.




If I don't reply, you're probably on my ignore list for something I forgot already

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

His kids were bratty noisy rugrats. I'd want to leave the planet for that reason, alone! I don't blame the guy, so kudos to you for posting this.

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Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Have never understood the "family" values of American culture from the 50s-70s. The nuclear family unit living in a suburban home seems so bizarre to me that there is nothing strange about the character forgetting that he has the "family" in the suburbs when he finds his real family.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

I agree.
There is this one chance to give your life meaning, to make a difference, to do something no man has ever done before I would do it in a heartbeat.
No one has ever gained something important in life without being at least a little courageous, without taking a risk of some sort. It's the true spirit of human nature - to imagine what lies beneath, step out of ourselves and explore the beyond.
Let's look at a more recent example of science-fiction movies, Interstellar. Cooper departs on a journey to save mankind, or at least try. He doesn't have the slightest idea if he'll ever find another inhabitable world other than Earth, but nevertheless he leaves his family, his beloved daughter, because he believes in the significance of his mission.
Mankind would have never travelled to space, built huge, football-field-sized space stations or went for a walk on the moon if there hadn't been pioneers in exploration beyond our established borders.
So please, try to step back and see the bigger picture. Mankind was not brought on this world to be just another byproduct of evolution. We were made to make contact with whatever is out there - and I'd bet my life on it that there is.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Problem is the argument isn't about whether we should explore beyond our established borders, it's about whether it's right for him to just up and leave his family, without even saying goodbye or seeming to think about them I might add. Sorry, but think about if you were one of his kids, how would you feel. Yeah it might be cool that your fathers exploring space but honestly I'd be a bit ticked off with and if he turned up years later, he wouldn't be my father anymore but just the man that went to outer space.

No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Spielberg should've at least had Roy leave a note with Gillian, or Lacombe, to give to his kids.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

If I was his kid I'd never forgive him if he passed up a chance like that. Out of billions of people he was picked to go where no man has gone before. I should *beep* hope he followed through on that. Some things are just more important than one singular family and I would understand that COMPLETELY.

That said, I'm 30+ years old now and maybe I wouldn't have felt the same if I was a little kid, but I'd understand once I grew up.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?


If I was his kid I'd never forgive him if he passed up a chance like that. Out of billions of people he was picked to go where no man has gone before. I should *beep* hope he followed through on that. Some things are just more important than one singular family and I would understand that COMPLETELY.

That said, I'm 30+ years old now and maybe I wouldn't have felt the same if I was a little kid, but I'd understand once I grew up.



Fair enough. Now what would you do if you were the one faced with the choice of leaving your 12, 10 and 4 year old? Would you do it?

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

clearly a bad shaver.



Re: Bad father? Seriously?

People who are leading normal lives and then depart pursuing an obsession tend to leave carnage in their wake. The human race would not have progressed (let's not argue over whether or not we have) without the obsessed dreamers. On the other hand, we cannot expect people who were hurt by those dreamers on their way not to be upset at being hurt.

I think that if I were young and single I would get on the ship. I might even leave a wife behind. But I don't think that I would leave children behind.

Even though there is strong indication that they will bring him back, that could be anywhere for hours to generations later in subjective Earth time. I'm not sure that I could tolerate that. However, I can certainly sympathize with someone who would want to explore the possibilities badly enough to go.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

I'm with you. If I was chosen by a race of aliens to go on a tour of the universe, I would accept it without hesitation, worldly responsibilities be damned. And any enlightened human being would understand such an urge.

Complaining people also need to remember that Roy was - to an extent - brainwashed by the aliens, they planted the insatiable obsession within him. Heck, it's even debatable the extent to which Roy was even in control of his own actions by the end of the story.




Never defend crap with 'It's just a movie'
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Re: Bad father? Seriously?


Roy was - to an extent - brainwashed by the aliens, they planted the insatiable obsession within him. Heck, it's even debatable the extent to which Roy was even in control of his own actions by the end of the story.



That's true, too. We don't know if the influence of the psychic invitation ended once he got to the meeting place in Wyoming, or, did it cause a permanent alteration of his psyche. And if the latter were the case, it's the aliens who come off sorta badly here.



Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Well, I've just seen this movie for the first time, and by the time it ends I couldn't help feeling that Roy is a terrible head of the family. And I'm a man. To be honest, I didn't think that he was a very nice person either.

The movie is quite good IMHO, by the way.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?


Well, I've just seen this movie for the first time, and by the time it ends I couldn't help feeling that Roy is a terrible head of the family. And I'm a man. To be honest, I didn't think that he was a very nice person either.


Is this principally because Roy decides to leave at the end, or was there something else about his personality that you found objectionable?



Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Excuse me, I hadn't seen your reply because I was expecting to receive some e-mail alerting about new responses on the threads I had participated in, as it is a common feauture that lots of other forums share. But I haven't got any e-mail during this time, so I thought there hadn't been new replies to this thread.

Yes, my problem with Roy is mainly that he decides to leave his family and board the mother ship. Also, it bothered me somehow his obsessive personality. But, of course, he had been mentally manipulated by the aliens in some way.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

Kinda see where threadstarter is coming from, but having kids and raising kids is the ultimate in a lot of ways. I wouldnt want to lose my life to an outer space mission. That is just me though.

Re: Bad father? Seriously?

And his wife and kids moved out because of it.
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