Doctor Who : How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman[\url]



Its not a no true Scotsman fallacy. I am giving you a chance to say why Missy is like the Master. Go on in what way does she fit in with the other Masters specifically?

And why it was good to cast a woman in the role because she is a woman.

Michelle Gomez only got the role because she is a woman. Moffat said he wanted to lay the groundwork for a woman doctor and its obvious to anyone that you'd never cast her in a billion years otherwise. Not because she is a bad actress but its for the same reasons that you'd never cast Ade Edmondson as Callisto in that Xena remake unless you had a bullsh!t agenda about proving that there are no differences between men and women.

So tell me why was that a good thing? Particularly when Gomez could have played the Rani a role she actually IS right for and another actor who was great for the Master could have played that role. Wouldn't two foes have been twice the fun?

Why crowbar a woman into the role for the sake of having a woman play a male character?

Why set that precedent that casting based on demographics rather than talent is a good thing? How is that fair that actors are deprived of the chance because of their gender and skin colour and fans and viewers have to deal with actors who are miscast just to tick boxes and pander to a tiny demographic, and thus if anything conform their earlier accusations of racism and sexism by admitting "yes we need to fix the show"

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjkq5zXs-XRAhXsK8AKHU0CDecQFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themarysue.com%2Fsteven-moffat-on-doctor-who-diversity%2F&usg=AFQjCNEszc8qLSxpnLnASa_bsi00kHMAcg&bvm=bv.145822982,d.ZGg

That's the precedent Missy set and its harmful to the show and its reputation.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

If I said I never found the Master a convincing character in the first place and I'm glad Michelle Gomez actually did something with the part, you wouldn't actually believe me would you? You'd say I wasn't a true Who or lying to get off with a feminist or something like that.

1 mark deducted for not being Curse of Fenric. Insert 'The' into previous if you are Ant-Mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


If I said I never found the Master a convincing character in the first place and I'm glad Michelle Gomez actually did something with the part, you wouldn't actually believe me would you? You'd say I wasn't a true Who or lying to get off with a feminist or something like that.


No what I'd say is why then did you want Missy to be the Master? Fair enough you think the Master was crap before (though I don't see how you can say he was rubbish compared to her as at least the Master was never beaten by a no thanks, but still different strokes)

Still okay you didn't like the Master, so why then make a character that is not even remotely like the character linked to the Master? Isn't that worse for this new better character to have all that baggage attached to them? Missy fans always go on about how its better to move on and do new things.

Okay then lets make Missy a new enemy for the Doctor with romantic ties to his past. I'd be fine with that, but why try and awkwardly attach her to the Master?

Again SJW agenda on Moff's part which is a big problem IMO all DW fans should have with the character regardless of whether they like Missy or not as like I said its set a bad precedent and undermined the show by showing that it panders to its critics.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

There you are again. You are telling me exactly how I should feel about something else I'm presumably not a fan.

1 mark deducted for not being Curse of Fenric. Insert 'The' into previous if you are Ant-Mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


There you are again. You are telling me exactly how I should feel about something else I'm presumably not a fan.



No I never said you weren't a fan I said that objectively fans should realise that Missy was pandering and that pandering, particularly to that group is never a good idea, and that there is no reason for Missy to be the Master as she is not even remotely like the Master and even if you liked the character why bother attaching her to another character she is not even remotely like?

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


No what I'd say is why then did you want Missy to be the Master?


I didn't particularly.

I also didn't want the Daleks to develop philosophy and consciences, for the Doctor to spend most of one story as a human trapped on earth, the Doctor to spend an entire episode alone without companions or anyone else, spend another story as a human on earth or be able to regrow limbs that had been chopped off. But all these things have happened and I've either liked them or not making my own decisions.


Still okay you didn't like the Master, so why then make a character that is not even remotely like the character linked to the Master?


I'm not Stephen Moffat so I didn't make this decision. And I never said I didn't like the Master, merely that I never found him a particularly convincing character who just seemed to be shoved into story after story with no plan other than 'for the eviluz!!!' which seemed to backfire on him half the time. And I think the time to worry about the Master being taken seriously was just before he started genuinely believing that the Clangers was a documentary.

So you'll forgive me if my first reaction to Missy being the master was "Well I genuinely wasn't expecting that - I thought she was Romana which might have been more interesting, still at least Michelle Gomez is more interesting in this part than John Simm"


Again SJW agenda on Moff's part which is a big problem IMO all DW fans should have with the character regardless of whether they like Missy or not


STOP TELLING ME WHAT PROBLEMS I SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T HAVE WITH A CHARACTER. It's worse than the time someone told me I shouldn't be a Doctor Who fan because I liked Rose.



1 mark deducted for not being Curse of Fenric. Insert 'The' into previous if you are Ant-Mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


STOP TELLING ME WHAT PROBLEMS I SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T HAVE WITH A CHARACTER. It's worse than the time someone told me I shouldn't be a Doctor Who fan because I liked Rose.



Its not I am simply pointing out the problems that there are with Missy.

1/ Michelle Gomez was cast not on merit, but because of an agenda.

2/ She was pandering to a toxic minority.

3/ She made Who's producers look weak as a result.

This is similar to when people point out all JNT's faults in the 80's, that he pandered to fans, albeit in a different way at the expense of the show, that he let his personal issues with people ban writers and directors from the show.

Those things are fact, and obviously led to problems with the JNT era. Now does that mean that no true who fan can like JNT or his era? Obviously not I like both. But even i admit those were problems with his era. As does everyone else. Yet NO ONE apart from a few exceptions will even entertain the possibility that Missy was pandering which is insane.

Again what other reason could there be for casting Gomez as the Master? Never mind the fact that Moffat never shuts up about how he is not a sexist in almost EVERY interview he gives, and goes on about how he is trying to fix problems like hiring more women, making the companion black, paving the way for a female Doctor, and the producers, directors and writers of New Who have given interviews to Whovian Feminism. No no agenda at all.

There's obviously one, but again so few people compared to JNT are prepared to admit it out of fear of being called sexist, being seen as a Ming Mong fan or loyalty to Moff. Hence why they jump through ridiculous hoops like "ALL CHANGE IS GOOD!" whilst still bitching about RTD for farting aliens, and JNT for McCoy's first season. (Those were changes boys!) or Missy is exactly like Delgado, or shouting people down as sexist.

Also I wasn't even necessarily directing that at you. Have you ever even used any of those three lame arguments "all change is good", "missy is exactly like Delgado", "you're a sexist for not liking her". I honestly didn't think you ever had?

Finally I say that New Who fans should speak out against this more as the show is clearly suffering from pandering to SJW's. Its quality and viewers and fans have all demonstrably diminished, just like how Ghostbusters 2016 was a massive flop and Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign failed dismally, and Marvle's sales are declining in record numbers. Pandering to SJW's kills anything healthy. If Who fans want it to survive they should speak out. Get back nto me in 4 years if Chibbers is the SJWs bitch as much as Moffat.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

I think some people have a misplace sense of loyalty to Master and/or the actor/actress that plays the character.

I kind of agree with most of what burun100 is saying. Michelle Gomez is a great fun actress. But her incarnation and portrayal of the Master is not my idea of the Master. It's too shtick. A parody of its former self as someone else said. Like a Saturday Night Live or Curse of the fatal death sketch.

People wanted a female Doctor, so the show runners seemed to accommodate and give us a female Master to shut some of us up and say "Yes, Time Lords can regenerate into the opposite sex".

If you do not see a social commentary being made there, then your missing it.

Whether you like Gomez as an actress is supplemental to a larger issue. I think she's a great actress for Broadway or something but she's not my Master. I wouldn't even want her playing an incarnation of Romana, unless she toned down the shtick.


keeps alive the weak, the stupid, the lazy that breed and multiply, weakening the human race

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

Thank god for you TenmanT someone who sees it like it is without Moffat loyalty, feminist or self loathing fanboy goggles, and again that's based on the arguments I've seen in favour of Missy from most people. "She's different everything different is better, stop being a ming mong who is stuck in 1975", "stop being someone who doesn't want dirty women in your favourite show", or "She's like Delgado and the other Masters in every way unlike that camp, Jokeresque Simm" (Missy is in no way camp or a third rate Joker knock off either!)

If someone has an argument that isn't one of those three vague, poorly thought out arguments then I'll be glad to hear it, but I'm still waiting.


I think some people have a misplace sense of loyalty to Master and/or the actor/actress that plays the character.



There most likely is an element of loyalty to Gomez, but I think the loyalty to Moff is greater. I don't think anyone who actually liked the Master likes Missy. IMO she's about as appealing to Master fans as George Clooney's version of Batman was to Bat fans, or Beyonces version of Back to Black was to Amy Winehouse fans, or Beyonce's version of At Last was to Etta James fans or Beyonce's version of Diamonds are a Girls best friend was to Marilyn Monroe fans or Beyonce in general is to fans of good music .


Whether you like Gomez as an actress is supplemental to a larger issue. I think she's a great actress for Broadway or something but she's not my Master. I wouldn't even want her playing an incarnation of Romana, unless she toned down the shtick.



She'd be terrible as Romana alright, but I think she would have been amazing as the Rani. She looks a bit like Kate O'Mara. Not too much but they are the same kind of exotic, mature beauty's with piercing eyes. Gomez also has that same dry, cutting sense of humour that the Rani has, also the Rani is more pantomimish than the Master. The Master's more of a comic book villain. Even the way Missy dresses in the bright red colours is the Rani's look.

Added to that the story they set up with the villain using the Cybermen would make sense f it was the Rani. The Rani is a cruel, cold scientist who would have a reason to use the Cybermen. She could be using them as a way to preserve the greatest minds in the universe in immortal emotionless bodies, like a large database. With the Master however he has no reason to work with them as the Master wants power and the Cybermen are small fish (usually they are dying out, and until Nightmare in Silver they could only convert humanity) So why would he bother with them? Hence why they came up with that AWFUL reason.

Thing is though no can say why Gomez was cast as the Master. No one can say "its because she was the best person for the role" as they know that's bullsh!t. They can't say that Missy is like the Master because that's bullsh!t so they have to jump through hoops and say that you're a sexist or that all change is good. A point which Missy fans contradict all the time when they bitch about JNT ruining the show with question mark lapels and RTD ruining the show with farting aliens and Doctor/Rose love stories.

Ultimately when you look at it objectively there is NO justification for Missy.

You like Michelle Gomez and think the Master was crap? Okay fine why not have her as the Rani? You can't say "oh the Rani was a crap villain" because you think the Master is too so what difference does it make to you, but to people who like the Master we get an actor who is good for the role. How's that not fair?

Missy lets people know that actors are being cast just to tick boxes rather than because they are right for the role, it also lets people know that the producers of DW can be bullied and its led to more pandering, and its ruined a character of 40 years by essentially tossing out all of his development and defining characteristics.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

"chicken-gulping Eletro Master. 'nuff said."

What are you talking about?

ant-mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

Fine either way. I'm sure the executives will give Chibnall at least a 2-year run unless his first year is terrible. After Chibnall, a break would be good.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

Well as I am not tired of the series yet, I see no reason to have another year off

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

I would be sad because we are watching new who at its best. But everything ends as someone said.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

I'd be fine with a break if they gave Mark Gatiss literally anything he wanted to come back and take over as Showrunner.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

I'd be more than at peace, I'd be somewhat happy that the show could have a rest and come back better than ever. I wouldn't want to see the show fizzle out in a few years and be forgotten about for another 15.

I'll hold out hope for the Chibnall era but I do think Doctor Who needs a bit more of a 'fresh start'.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

It depends on where Capaldi and Chibnall want to end.

Right now, it should just keep chugging along as the only weakness is the writing. They have a good budget, great production values, and Capaldi is one hell of a Doctor. We just need some better stories, which hopefully will be sorted next year with Chibnall sailing the ship.

Chances are Chibnall won't stay for long though. He lead Torchwood for two series, and he's only doing three series of Broadchurch. Perhaps he'll do around three series for Doctor Who. If that's the case then he and Capaldi could both leave at the same time. Maybe then the BBC can have the show on hold for a year or two before starting really fresh with a new Doctor and showrunner.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

That would suck if showrunners are tired get new show runners. There is no reason to end the show not at all

There's no point of being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

I think that would be a shame, since Chibnall is just coming on-board. I really love Broadchurch, so I am looking forward to it. His DW episodes are not particularly spectacular (certainly nothing like Moffat's resume with the show when he took over!) but a good show-runner should do precisely that, run the show, which means finding the best possible writers and directors and delegating effectively. It does not mean he must write the majority of the episodes all by himself.

Of course, if Capaldi wants to he can stay for as many years as he wants. :) I would assume Chibnall will want a Doctor of his own at some point though.


Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

"I would assume Chibnall will want a Doctor of his own at some point though."

Surely if Chris Chibnall is any good as a show runner, he'll make Peter Capaldi's Doctor his own at some point?

ant-mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


Surely if Chris Chibnall is any good as a show runner, he'll make Peter Capaldi's Doctor his own at some point?


I meant one where he can hand-pick his actor and sort of "mold" him into what he wants. The Doctor's core characteristics have been set in stone for decades, and the Twelfth (f-ck that's an awfully difficult word to spell) Doctor's specifics are what they are. I'm sure you know what I mean, The Doctor is like Lego, the pieces are the same but you can rearrange them differently. So maybe Chibnall wants to take apart and build up something else. I mean, who knows, maybe he doesn't.


Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

Just so long as he makes some decent DOCTOR WHO serials.

PC is a perfectly good Doctor and Nardole is a perfectly good companion. No one knows much about Bill yet but fingers crossed. So there's no reason why CC shouldn't be able to deliver if he's the right pick for this job.

ant-mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

I've only just got used to PC, I'd hate for him to go this soon

1 mark deducted for not being Curse of Fenric. Insert 'The' into previous if you are Ant-Mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

We should be careful about discussing PC issues, we'll be branded as SJWs

ant-mac

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

I think Nardole is totally useless so far. But I'll be willing to give him a chance if they give him characterization besides being a place-holder companion who has to be therefor the sake of being there. He contributed nothing to the Christmas Special (the latest one, I don't remember him much from the Husbands of River Song though I actually really liked it as a story. The Doctor and River were both awesome in it.)

I like Capaldi too, I don't mean I want him gone! But RTD was showrunner for 5 years, Moffat for 7-almost-8 by the time he leaves. If Chibnall will have a run even half of those I don't think it's feasible to think Capaldi won't want to leave at some point. Don't know about Bill, we really haven't seen almost anything of her. If she's great I think I'd love for her to stay but the Doctor to pick someone else along the way too from some random planet cause I want a TARDIS posse.

And I do think it's funny PC's initials are PC. Could they just pick the next one by going through all the actors they can with the initials SJW? I can't think of any right now but surely there are some.


Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


And I do think it's funny PC's initials are PC.


HAHAHA never realised that before. Fitting since he's the star of the most awful PC era of the show.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?


Capaldi is one of my favorites. I want the show to end on a high.

Well that's that, then. I said if he left on his own I'd still watch the show, but now, I'm not sure I want to.

Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody dies.

Re: How would you feel if Doctor Who had a time-out after Capaldi's run?

Yes, just reading some of the fandom that insist on drastic changes tells me the show should go away. Heaven forbid I simply stop watching it.



keeps alive the weak, the stupid, the lazy that breed and multiply, weakening the human race
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