Yossi & Jagger : the women in the movie
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Re: the women in the movie
Actually, yes. One of the biggest problems I have with this movie is the way that women are portrayed. there is the cheap slut who sleeps with her CO and everyone else; there is the stupid girl who deosn't realize what is going on in front of her eys Its just is not like that
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" Obi-Wan Kenobi
Re: the women in the movie–SPOILERS
Sorry, but I don't see the basis for such comments. I see no evidence in the film that Goldie, flirt though she may be, has sex with anyone but the colonelwho is a physically attractive, masculine man. They just enjoy sex with each other, and neither pretends that it's anything more. I think there's a clear but nonjudgmental contrast being drawn between Goldie and her friend Yaeli. Yaeli believes sex should be strictly reserved for expressing love. Her values are simply different from Goldie's; different strokes for different folks. I don't see that Goldie is being depicted as a slut any more than Yaeli is portrayed as a prude. The fact that the women's friendship stays strong is, I believe, a statement by the writer/filmmaker that people of goodwill and intelligence can "agree to disagree" even on a major issue while keeping their respect and affection for one another. Furthermore, the fact that Yaeli has not detected the special relationship of Jagger and Yossi is not an indication that she is stupid or blind. The men have always been careful to hide their true relationship, and they are very skilful at it. Even within the close-knit platoon of soldiers, no one has had reason to suspect it. This fact leads to two heart-rending moments. First, when Ophir witnesses Yossi declaring his love to the dying Jagger and realizes how horribly wrong he (Ophir) was about Jagger. And second, the group visit to Jagger's parents. Jagger's mother is lamenting how little she really knew about her late son, and Yaeli (unknowingly and with the best of intentions) actually lets her assume something false. Gay people have been "passing" as straight since time immemorial; how can we fault Yaeli for not detecting Jagger's true sexuality when even Jagger's mother wasn't aware of it? In fact, the only person in the roombesides Yossiwho is (now) aware of the truth about Jagger is Ophir, and he can't say anything without likely increasing Jagger's parents' pain. All he can do is give a sympathetic glance or two to Yossi. This subtle but wrenching scene rips me up every time I see it, and it's based on how brilliant gay people often are at concealing their love from others. Again, if Y&J were able to hide their love for each other from other men they lived in close quarters with practically 24 hours a day, one can hardly conclude that Yaeli and Goldie are blind or stupid because they didn't perceive it. Those who may still disagree, please cite examples from the film to support your view.
Re: the women in the movie–SPOILERS
beautifully written androphile!
Re: the women in the movie–SPOILERS
Thanks, gabriel! As you can see, I have pretty strong feelings about this great film!
"Tell you what . . . the truth is . . . sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." Jack Twist
"Tell you what . . . the truth is . . . sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." Jack Twist
Re: the women in the movie
Interesting. You felt only the women in this film were represented as dumb and slutty and not the men? I didn't see any difference. Personally, I was somewhat appalled by everyone's behavior. All the soldiers seemed totally self absorbed, interested primarily in being rowdy, getting laid, and dancing to club music. I assume they're all draftees. It's a small wonder they all didn't get killed. And, with the effort that went into setting up the ambush, how did they manage to stage it in the middle of a minefield? I basically found this film to be interesting but only average.
"I left everything, and everyone. But no one, no one has ever left me."
"I left everything, and everyone. But no one, no one has ever left me."
Re: the women in the movie
Soldiers being interested in getting laid, being rowdy, dancing? What strange behavior for soldiers. Everyone knows that soldiers only enjoy reading and playing the piano and practicing their French And yes, they are most likely drafties.. In Isreal I believe every boy & girl is required to do military service in their late teens. And this might explain why the two girls didn't behave like soldiers, but more like normal girls, making the most of a strange situation that they might not have chosen for themselves. I like the girl characters, they brought another level to this film. their presense, and the other characters, prevent this from being an exclusively gay film. Only two characters here happen to be gay, and not so much screen time is given to them. A good thing, because unlike other "queer films," this one won't alienate non-gays, and therefore will be seen by a wider audience. I was surprised at just how good this film was.
Re: the women in the movie
There is on thing that people here are ignoring and that is the fact that this takes place in Israel, which has been at war from the day it was created.
Women and men are treated as equals in Israel - ever since the beginning with the Kibbutz and Israeli girls have to do their military service just like the men do.
With this in mind - and the fact that they all know that anyone can be killed at any time - prudish typical attitudes seem rather out of place. The women and the men meet as equals - they (the women) have no reason to hide their desires in the coy way that women do elsewhere.
I disagree therefore with calling these girl sluts it just doesn't apply in this context.
I also disagree with "androphile" (whose post I liked for the most part) when he states that the two girls are opposites. The one who is in love with Jagger states that NOW she has decided that she only wants to have sex with someone she is in love with which allows us to think that she was just as "easy" as the blonde girl in the past. So there is no difference of opinion, just a difference in style. Which is why they get along so well - neither makes any judgements about the other at all.
Women and men are treated as equals in Israel - ever since the beginning with the Kibbutz and Israeli girls have to do their military service just like the men do.
With this in mind - and the fact that they all know that anyone can be killed at any time - prudish typical attitudes seem rather out of place. The women and the men meet as equals - they (the women) have no reason to hide their desires in the coy way that women do elsewhere.
I disagree therefore with calling these girl sluts it just doesn't apply in this context.
I also disagree with "androphile" (whose post I liked for the most part) when he states that the two girls are opposites. The one who is in love with Jagger states that NOW she has decided that she only wants to have sex with someone she is in love with which allows us to think that she was just as "easy" as the blonde girl in the past. So there is no difference of opinion, just a difference in style. Which is why they get along so well - neither makes any judgements about the other at all.
the women in the movie
don't you think?