Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance : The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

So after getting the money, was Ryu just going to leave President Park tied up there all night with a bag around his head, and just free him and return his daughter whenever he got around to it?!?!

I understand that he was upset that his sister died all of a sudden, but returning the daughter to her dad should still be his first priority now that he has the money. He had already put those people through enough, but to decide to bury his sister first, and not only that, but to bring Park's daughter ALONG, it just seems totally selfish.

Or maybe I'm missing something. But for me, after this point, I couldn't feel any sympathy for Ryu any more. I didn't have a problem with the initial kidnapping plot, I understand he needed the money (even though he was an idiot for falling for that kidney trap in the first place), but what he did after he got the money was so ridiculously stupid that I felt he deserved everything he had coming to him.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

His sister was his life. His girlfriend too, but he knew his sister forever. That was his family. He couldn't leave the daughter alone. I mean you can't leave a kid alone, it was just an unfortunate circumstance she died. His sister killed himself. The only reason he was doing all of it. As far as he knew, bury his sister, return daughter. He was a dumb deaf guy. Throughout the movie we see this. His heart dictates his thoughts.

Not to mention he was in a place that while excluded was not beyond someone finding, on top of which they could have called the cops anomalously or something along those lines.

Whatever though, the point of the movie was to try to sympathize with these characters while seeing if we could condone their actions and responses.

The natural way to learn, is through repetition. Repetition is the natural way to learn.

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Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

Is there a rule in book which says the body should be placed near a stream and covered with rocks after a person dies? Ever heard of a place called the mortuary? Why didn't he ask his girlfriend to take the girl back to her father, if he needed to do the rock burial so badly? This movie is full of plotholes and doesn't make sense at all.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

"My sister and me used to come by this river where we used to play. It made us both happy."

"My sister is the most important person in my life. She worked very hard to put me through art school, when she got sick, I quit art school and got a job to take care of her medical expenses."

Both paraphrases but you seem to be completely incapable of empathy or understanding why characters would act like themselves and not like a third party watching a movie that isn't emotionally invested in any of it. You didn't understand a pretty effin easy to understand movie. You don't know what plot holes are. Well we could go on I'm sure.

Face down, ass up. That's the way we like to…

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

"My sister and me used to come by this river where we used to play. It made us both happy."
WTF so we should start burying siblings in playgrounds, parks or disneylands?

"My sister is the most important person in my life. She worked very hard to put me through art school, when she got sick, I quit art school and got a job to take care of her medical expenses."

Then give her a decent burial or cremation, not some rock covered grave which the retard could easily destroy and who knows do what to his sister's body.

And how about actually answering my question, "Why didn't he ask his girlfriend to take the girl back to her father?" before saying you could go on.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

I answered the questions. Again though, you don't get it.

Why do people emotionally invested in a situation react on instinct and not carefully plan things out?!

Why do you punch someone that makes you angry instead of calmly thinking about the consequences later?

You don't understand things. It isn't why didn't they do this like I would have. Me who has no emotional connection to the people involved. Me who doesn't understand no two people are exactly the same.

Dude just got the money. Goes home. Finds his sister dead. He reacts to that situation. Clearly he can't leave the little girl at home. For all we know he was going home then going to return the girl. So he takes the sister to the most important place of their child hood. Buries her. Why do people release ashes into the ocean of their loved ones? Why do people even bury people in expensive caskets? His sister committed suicide. What is he even going to tell the police? He is going to react the way HE would in the situation. Not YOU. He is a dumb kindhearted sentimental guy. So again he takes her to the most important place of their childhood. He isn't going to predict anything is going to happen to the little girl. Who could? He's going to drop her off after he is done with his sister. The most important thing in his life.

I mean seriously, do you lack the ability to think? Are you so completely oblivious to what hindsight and plot holes are? They aren't the same thing. Sh/t happens. We react. Not always in a calm and well thought out manner.

Face down, ass up. That's the way we like to…

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

"I answered the questions. Again though, you don't get it."

Just saying you did, doesnt make it so.

"Why do people emotionally invested in a situation react on instinct and not carefully plan things out?!
Why do you punch someone that makes you angry instead of calmly thinking about the consequences later? "

Take your psychological test questions somewhere else.

"You don't understand things. It isn't why didn't they do this like I would have. Me who has no emotional connection to the people involved. Me who doesn't understand no two people are exactly the same. "

Seriously I don't know where you are getting this analysis from.

"His sister committed suicide. What is he even going to tell the police?"

Last time I checked, a brother doesn't get arrested if his sister commits suicide.

"He is a dumb kindhearted sentimental guy."

Again doing some freakish psychological analysis of the character. Why didn't he surrender himself to the police after the little girl drowned?

"He isn't going to predict anything is going to happen to the little girl."

I never said he is going to predict anything. Just call the girlfriend to return the child, if he was going to do the freak rock burial.

"I mean seriously, do you lack the ability to think? Are you so completely oblivious to what hindsight and plot holes are? They aren't the same thing. Sh/t happens. We react. Not always in a calm and well thought out manner. "

Ad hominem attack not worth my time.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

"What is he even going to tell the police?"
"Last time I checked, a brother doesn't get arrested if his sister commits suicide."

Nope doesn't answer the question.

The analysis is the fact you are calling plot holes and b.s. in something that doesn't have it. The fact you lack the ability to understand why characters completely different from you that are under extreme emotional duress would act differently than someone in total control and ability to think clearly.

You are in glib troll status now. If you don't get better you are going to go on ignore. By majority that post in this board.

Face down, ass up. That's the way we like to…

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

"Nope doesn't answer the question."

Great, just say 'nope' without giving any good reason, way to go.

"The analysis is the fact……..
You are in glib troll status now. If …….. "

Great, start calling me a 'troll' (I wonder if you even know the meaning of that word) instead of addressing the arguments I put up such as:

1.) If he's so kindhearted, sentimental why didn't he hand himself over to the police after the little girl drowned?
2.) Why doesn't everybody bury their siblings in playgrounds, parks or disneylands?
3.) Why not call the girlfriend to take the little girl back to her father?
4.) Why leave an innocent man whose daughter was kidnapped all tied up and blind-folded for no reason since he has already handed over the ranson?
5.) Why place a little girl in the car which has a corpse in the front seat?
6.) Why leave the little girl in the car without locking it?
7.) Why cover the sister with rocks which can be easily removed by the retard and who knows do what with the body?
8.) Why will a brother get arrested if his sister commits suicide?

If you cannot answer any of these question then please admit it instead doing a psychological analysis of everybody. In fact some of these questions doesn't have anything to do with psychology and can be answered with simple common sense.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

I wish you could just answer these questions yourself, after watching the film YOURSELF, but since you're asking for help over the internet: I will answer them.

1.) The point of the film is that the two main characters' thirst for vengeance twists them and destroys them. Ryu is a kindhearted, sentimental character…he doesn't mean for these things to happen…but after his sister dies and the girl drowns, his purpose isn't that of moral redemption: it is that of vengeance. That is the point…that is not a plothole.

2.) Did you honestly ask that question? I guess you are looking for an answer…so I will address it still. Most people aren't in the middle of an enormous crime and don't feel responsible when their siblings die (or at least they don't feel as responsible as Ryu has reason to be)…most people don't have the connection that Ryu had to his sister…and you must understand that this is a different culture. I'm half Korean, I don't expect you to understand, but places of nature in Korea hold a very special place for us. Ryu was also an art student, a hopeless romantic as we can tell by his sign-language (the 'dialogue' in the sex scene), he would do something out of the ordinary, and as you call it: irrational. Based on everything we know of the character, this all makes sense…it's part of the point, not a plothole.

3.) He's got a lot more on his mind at the moment…he's an impulsive character…he doesn't want to sit around waiting all day for his girlfriend to get back (she doesn't have a cellphone…I hope you would have picked that much up…so he doesn't even know if he can get a hold of her). And why call her when he is planning on doing it himself…he has a lot of faith in himself physically, and he wouldn't want the father to attack his girlfriend if he had the chance. It's character development, not a plothole.

4.) You could never do anything dishonest, I can tell, you are probably a good person…here is a fact, though: if you kidnap a millionaire's daughter, and you get the ransom from him, and you are going back to your home where the most important thing in your life is (your sister), and you will lose everything if you are caught…you make sure that this man isn't going to follow you. It's common sense, not a plothole.

5.) If he is planning on taking the girl back, he would take her with him. Also, he is deaf, he can't hear the sounds of a child being upset, it doesn't have the same effect to him. This is also a Korean film, in Korea they don't shelter their children from the harshness of life when it is so close to them. If a family member dies, you don't hide that fact from children or dance around the subject…it's just a cultural thing, not a plothole.

6.) I don't think he was planning on anyone else coming in. People are also a lot less protective of kids over there…like I said, it's a different culture (and as we have already said, he has a lot on his mind), not a plothole.

7.) It's a sentimentality thing, and a Korean thing. This isn't an American film, understand that. It's also carries a lot of symbolic meaning that he places her at the roots of the tree. Besides, irrationality is a character trait, not a plothole.

8.) No, but he will get arrested if they find a kidnapped little girl in his possession…that's just common sense, not a plothole.

I think your problem isn't with the plot, you just don't like the character and are trying to take it out on something you don't entirely understand.

Please don't insult like you are doing to others, I just want to have a conversation and you asked to have these questions answered and I have done that…don't hold it against me.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

The *beep* you two talking about?
In the first minutes of a movie, on the broadcast, main hero mentions in the letter, what his sister "wanted him to bury her by the river where they used to play".
It's about 1 minute 40 seconds in the movie.
After his sister commited suicide he was inadequate and could not think straight, not to mention he isn't very clever in the first place, he didn't care for her father or the money at this point whatsoever.

I hope that settles it, please don't even try arguing further about motives of the heroes, like "why would she want to be buried anyway" - it's another people, another race, another culture, people are not equal. And learn what definition on the real plot hole is

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

So you agree with me and what I have been saying? Thanks.

Face down, ass up. That's the way we like to…

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

Ok i missed an obscure line regarding a very freaky request at the start of the movie and "baygerbieger" you didn't say anything about the sister's request.

There's still a number of unanswered questions:

1.) If he's so kindhearted, sentimental why didn't he hand himself over to the police after the little girl drowned?
2.) Why not call the girlfriend to take the little girl back to her father?
3.) Why leave an innocent man whose daughter was kidnapped all tied up and blind-folded for no reason since he has already handed over the ranson?
4.) Why place a little girl in the car which has a corpse in the front seat?
5.) Why leave the little girl in the car without locking it?
6.) Why will a brother get arrested if his sister commits suicide?

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

1.) Why not ask the question: If he's so kindhearted, sentimental why did he kidnap that girl? Good people sometimes do bad things. He got caught up in a simple kidnapping act, which went horribly wrong. If you mean that he was selfish in not handing himself over, well maybe he was.. People are not one dimensional an can have good and bad qualities.
2/3/4/5.)Why would he not do the things he did? His solutions to a certain problem, aren't necesairlly another person's solution. He understandably wasn't thinking clearly after finding his dead sister. Excuse him if he didn't have the selfcontrol to call his gf and ask her to come over and take the girl. Him taking the girl was way more on character. You don't know if he left the father on that pole. One scene, we see him blinded, the next he is with the cops. Who was it that let him free? None of these questions really seem worth asking..
6.) Have you seen the movie? The guy was in the process of kidnapping a rich guy's daughter. Not really an ideal moment to invite the cops in your home.. Plus, burrying the girl along side that beautiful creek to him was preferable to handing her over to authorities and having her body burried at some random burial ground.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

Thanks for taking your time to answer the questions, but those questions were more related to various arguments put up by "baygerbieger" than the movie itself. For example,

Question 1,2,3,4,5 was asked because "baygerbieger" wrote "He is a dumb kindhearted sentimental guy" basically I was trying to argue if he's so good why not surrender himself or help out the father first instead of the burial. Hence, the conclusion he's selfish and self-centered like almost everybody else.

Question 6 was asked because he/she wrote "His sister committed suicide. What is he even going to tell the police?"

And "kashadoo" what gives? Doing a psychological analysis of a complete stranger through his post about some korean movie in the imdb boards, if it helps you sleep at night then go ahead do some more.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

Those kind of questions might be expected from an alien, not understanding anything about human emotions, conditions and point of actions in criticall situations. Are you a human bein? You probably not fully developed yet, just try asking your parents, or just spend time outside of internet, communicating with ones of your own kind or you'll end up as an empty shell, not knowing that life is.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

don't bother with platonic567, he's just too *beep* stupid.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

great are you suppose to be the wise one? Enlighten us with your wisdom!
P.S. Going around insulting people on IMDB doesn't make you smart.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

1. because he doesn't want to go to prison and send his lover to prison for the rest of their lives…
2. How do you know the girlfriend was even AROUND at the time? For all the audience knows in the scene she could be in some other part of the country…maybe he DID call her and she didn't answer…also, it is extremely difficult for someone who cannot speak to "call" anyone for anything.
3. He wasn't thinking rationally, his sister had just died…one doesn't exactly think all that clearly when insane with grief.
4. You'd rather he jammed her in the trunk?
5. see #3, and besides we don't even know it was him who left the door open, she could have just as easily unlocked it herself…you can't bolt a car door from the outside.
6. he would be arrested because he kidnapped a person and demanded ransom, that was the whole REASON she killed herself

I'm unsure how anyone could honestly miss these things…this isn't a story about some well-adjusted business major…


*+_Charos_+*

"I have often laughed at weaklings
who thought themselves good because
they had no claws."

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

Near the beginning of the movie, sister said she wanted to be buried next to the stream.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

Were you there for the first 2 or 3 minutes of the movie? It blatantly says "Sis you told me to bury you in the rocks by the river in the place we used to play…"
that's pretty obvious…

but i do agree that the little girl should not have been there…either let her go already, or give her to the gf to watch

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

You appear to have missed the part where he said he was going to bury her by the river where they used to play.

You also seem to have missed their poverty. He couldn't afford the ceremony that the father could.

He also didn't have a texting phone, or seem to know how to use one– you appear to have also forgotten the scene in which his gf listens on the phone while signing with him. That means that, once his gf was away, he didn't know how to get in touch with her.

You also appear not to have noticed that the character was distraught at his sister's death. Logical thinking of the highest order was not on his dance card at that moment, if it ever was (hint: it wasn't).

These are not plotholes.

These are signs that you simply weren't paying attention.

This is not a movie that holds your hand. You might want to look for an American remake. They love to hold your hand.

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

I think that's a large part of the idea…he started out simply needing money and as he gets more and more deep into it he becomes more and more…I guess insane would be the word. He did everything for his sister, destroyed his own life, irreparably damaged other lives all in order to keep his sister safe.

The Ryu we see in the beginning I don't think of as being likely to make an oversight like that or capable of doing what he later does or tries to do (to the kidney people, to Park and so on). I think many of us who have had similar situations (something shocking like seeing a loved one shot or knifed to death or finding the body of your sister like that)…when something like that happens you're not thinking about how you're acting, or about people around you…you go a little insane.

The fact that not only does that happen to him, but she dies BECAUSE of him…I can understand…he wouldn't be thinking of logical and kindest courses of action. He would be quite literally in the middle of incredible post-traumatic stress. He would be borderline insane by that point.


*+_Charos_+*

"I have often laughed at weaklings
who thought themselves good because
they had no claws."

Re: The thing that bothered me the most (spoilers)

Others have pointed out that you missed the dialogue at the beginning (voiced by a woman on the radio, before we learn it is actually a letter from a man she is reading) about being buried by that river.

But I do agree that it seemed unnecessary and cruel to tie that guy up that way. I thought he was just going to text him to tell him to leave the briefcase and walk away.
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