Stroszek : My take on the ending- major spoilers
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I like that interpretation, I think you're on to something there. It's a lot more considered than my own interpretation of the final scenes. I saw the dancing chicken (that won't stop) as representing Eva, because in a way she chickens out of having a 'normal' life with Bruno and won't stop putting herself in bad situations. The chicken that plays the piano could represent Bruno, because he is a musician (obviously). The rabbit with the fire truck represents the result of Bruno's failed relationship with Eva: the burning car going round in circles. However, all of that is a bit tenuous and I think I like the turkey/thanksgiving/American Dream theory better.
"Your car is kaput, your girlfriend is gone, and thine house they have sold" Probably misquoted, but I loved that line.
I really need to watch this film a second time.
http://www.ymdb.com/user_top20_view.asp?usersid=24130
"Your car is kaput, your girlfriend is gone, and thine house they have sold" Probably misquoted, but I loved that line.
I really need to watch this film a second time.
http://www.ymdb.com/user_top20_view.asp?usersid=24130
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I had been thinking about how Bruno might be the chicken when I was watching also. I did not know what what to think about the rabbit except fot the obvious reasons.
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Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I'm not convinced we should require every metaphor to correspond to reality on a one-to-one basis. All I care about is that the final reel of Stroszek is beautiful and devestating.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Yeah, I think it's kind of misreading Herzog to try to read his work so "tightly" and "formally", because he sure doesn't think of it that way himself. It's like trying to force him into being a traditionalist, as if he's following the traditional standards, when he really isn't. He rather makes his work intentionally ambiguous to allow a variety of interpretations, and he's often just filming things that strike him as interesting, he's often finding and going with fortuitous "accidents", and so on.
http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies
http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
If you go back and watch that last scene again, I think there is a sign or something talking about the bears. Like Eva mentioned, a place where the bears roam free I imagine him going up the lift with this turkey and there are bears up there Ok its not pretty.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
The best explanation I've ever heard is that the dancing chicken is a metaphor for human life. Somebody puts a coin in the machine and the chicken comes out and dances.
Same for humans, somebody puts us on this earth and we perform with no notion of what will ultimately become of us or why we're doing it.
For anybody who has seen Aguirre, Wrath of God - the ending has, I think, quite a similar theme i.e. that the world is a stage but that man doesn't really know how he got on the stage or what he's supposed to do now that he's there.
Same for humans, somebody puts us on this earth and we perform with no notion of what will ultimately become of us or why we're doing it.
For anybody who has seen Aguirre, Wrath of God - the ending has, I think, quite a similar theme i.e. that the world is a stage but that man doesn't really know how he got on the stage or what he's supposed to do now that he's there.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Kefu that is an extremly interesting way to look at the epic last scene of Agguire. I thought the end the was just trying to say more on man's eventual demise because the last shot you get the illusion that you are going down a drain.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
One of the things people rarely comment on is the actual title of the film Aguirre: the wrath of God. Although Aguirre thinks that he is the wrath of God, in reality he is as much a victim of the wrath of God as everyone else on the expedition.
I think Stroszek is very similar: a commentary on just how arbitrary and pointless a life - or life in general - can be.
Also, crucially with Werner Herzog, there is a very clear intention on the director's part to leave the viewer conflicted.
There is NO definitive explanation and anybody who claims otherwise is wrong.
Even on the commentary track of Stroszek, Herzog refuses to talk over the dancing chicken scene.
He just sits back and says that the scene will speak for itself.
This, I believe, is his way of saying that he is trying to reflect a mood, or provoke a feeling, rather than asking the viewer to say x, y and z just happened.
I can honestly say I've never actually enjoyed a Herzog film in the traditional sense of "enjoying" film.
But they have a very strange way of holding on to you and you tend to think about them far more than is probably healthy.
I sometimes wonder did Herzog come up with the endings first and then work his way backwards because very often the films are quite laboured, but have these simply extraordinary finales.
I think Stroszek is very similar: a commentary on just how arbitrary and pointless a life - or life in general - can be.
Also, crucially with Werner Herzog, there is a very clear intention on the director's part to leave the viewer conflicted.
There is NO definitive explanation and anybody who claims otherwise is wrong.
Even on the commentary track of Stroszek, Herzog refuses to talk over the dancing chicken scene.
He just sits back and says that the scene will speak for itself.
This, I believe, is his way of saying that he is trying to reflect a mood, or provoke a feeling, rather than asking the viewer to say x, y and z just happened.
I can honestly say I've never actually enjoyed a Herzog film in the traditional sense of "enjoying" film.
But they have a very strange way of holding on to you and you tend to think about them far more than is probably healthy.
I sometimes wonder did Herzog come up with the endings first and then work his way backwards because very often the films are quite laboured, but have these simply extraordinary finales.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Even Herzog himself has stated that he doesn't really know what the dancing chicken represents. He just knew it had to be in there and would make a lovely metaphor for somthing.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I've often wondered, if after filming is complete, if more meaning arises from inadvertent actions like maybe the chicken machine just broke and that's why she kept dancing and Herzog liked it so much he just used it or when the stretcher was dropped in There's Something About Mary and it was so funny they kept it in. We frequently dissect films to death and while a post-mortem is frequently a good thing sometimes I don't want to overanalyze but to just love the movie and NOT try to figure out every single nuance. Then again I'm a film student and what the $(#$& do I know.
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Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
that the SCENE is well calculated surely does not imply that it has a correspondingly calculated metaphorical MEANING. herzog usually pays much attention to the act of filmmaking, and little attention to crude symbolism.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
The film, to me, is a portrait of the struggles in life that are connected with money: All the three major characters experience this. Maybe the fact that the chicken is obliged to dance every time someone puts money into the machine is a representation of this?
'Ave imbres in aeternum'
'Ave imbres in aeternum'
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
The ending supported Brunos assessment of America, when he said , here they hurt you spiritually while they smile (paraphrasing)
The animals are exploited. They are creatures of the natural world forced into humiliating and unnatural situations which dont harm them physically, but spiritually.
This theme is also present in the ridiculous speech of the auctioneer, the insincerity of the banker, the perverted aping of the hillbillies, among others- All shown to establish the cruel alienation Bruno feels as an honest and innocent spirit, magnified by his foreign perspective.
The animals are exploited. They are creatures of the natural world forced into humiliating and unnatural situations which dont harm them physically, but spiritually.
This theme is also present in the ridiculous speech of the auctioneer, the insincerity of the banker, the perverted aping of the hillbillies, among others- All shown to establish the cruel alienation Bruno feels as an honest and innocent spirit, magnified by his foreign perspective.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I sometimes wonder did Herzog come up with the endings first and then work his way backwards because very often the films are quite laboured, but have these simply extraordinary finales.
After I saw Aguirre the first time, thats exactly the question I asked. The movie for the most part felt slow to me, and I was fairly unimpressed until it came down to the end.
After I'd seen it, I decided to do some research and found out how much effort was put into the film. On that alone, my respect for the film and filmmaker grew. The wierdest part was, I kept thinking about the movie and couldn't figure out why. I had the same thing happen to me the first time I saw Withnail and I.
Sure sure, Withnail and Aguirre or Stroszek are not even close in any relative correlation, aside from that fact that they all seem to keep me thinking about them long afterwards.
I saw Stroszek for my first time last night, and I can't even begin to comment or critique. Now that I'm more aware of what Herzog is about and his methods in creating his films, Stroszek seemed a lot more exciting than it probably would have to your average viewer.
I can say that Bruno and Eva were in my dreams and have been the first things on my mind this morning. I will watch it again a few times before I send back to Netflixland. Herzog is such a brilliant filmmaker.
My Best Fiend is next, then Julien Donkey Boy.
I think we need more actors like Kinski around. Shake things up a bit. Put people on edge.
(((FullTimeKiller)))
After I saw Aguirre the first time, thats exactly the question I asked. The movie for the most part felt slow to me, and I was fairly unimpressed until it came down to the end.
After I'd seen it, I decided to do some research and found out how much effort was put into the film. On that alone, my respect for the film and filmmaker grew. The wierdest part was, I kept thinking about the movie and couldn't figure out why. I had the same thing happen to me the first time I saw Withnail and I.
Sure sure, Withnail and Aguirre or Stroszek are not even close in any relative correlation, aside from that fact that they all seem to keep me thinking about them long afterwards.
I saw Stroszek for my first time last night, and I can't even begin to comment or critique. Now that I'm more aware of what Herzog is about and his methods in creating his films, Stroszek seemed a lot more exciting than it probably would have to your average viewer.
I can say that Bruno and Eva were in my dreams and have been the first things on my mind this morning. I will watch it again a few times before I send back to Netflixland. Herzog is such a brilliant filmmaker.
My Best Fiend is next, then Julien Donkey Boy.
I think we need more actors like Kinski around. Shake things up a bit. Put people on edge.
(((FullTimeKiller)))
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Sure sure, Withnail and Aguirre or Stroszek are not even close in any relative correlation, aside from that fact that they all seem to keep me thinking about them long afterwards.
Oddly, tonight I held both movies (Withnail and Stroszek) in my hands never having seen either and decided to go with Stroszek. I'd been planning to see both for months, and it seemed like an opportune time, so I sat there staring at the two of them for close to ten minutes trying to make up my mind.
Not that I'm not looking forward to Withnail, but I'm very happy indeed that I chose this one.
I can't wait to show it to my little brothers.
Withnail and Stroszek.
Both films feature a funny scene with a man not knowing what to do with a frozen turkey!
"A fool and his money soon party!"
"A fool and his money soon party!"
Re: Withnail and Stroszek.
Now that I've seen the former, I can say these are the two most rewarding new films I've seen this year. (New to me anyway.)
I believe it's a chicken in Withnail, but I certainly take your point.
I believe it's a chicken in Withnail, but I certainly take your point.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Allow me to pull a quote from Roger Ebert's "Great Movies" entry on Stroszek,
[talking about Herzog's commentary] "The chicken is a "great metaphor," he saysfor what, he's not sure. My theory: A force we cannot comprehend puts some money in the slot, and we dance until the money runs out."
I think that coincides with what Kefu was saying and I like this interpretation the most. The chicken; moreover all the animals represent everyone in the film and to an extent everyone in our society. We go to our jobs day to day, we get paid, thats life.(or life as its presented in Stroszek) Stroszek is a street performer; the money goes in his hat and he entertains as long as the money is still there. Eva works the same way. She gets her pay: she entertains. The interpretations from here are nearly endless as most everyone can apply this to their lives in some way so I won't bother getting too specific.
By the way I did enjoy the Thanksgiving connection, I hadn't thought of that one; kudos!
[talking about Herzog's commentary] "The chicken is a "great metaphor," he saysfor what, he's not sure. My theory: A force we cannot comprehend puts some money in the slot, and we dance until the money runs out."
I think that coincides with what Kefu was saying and I like this interpretation the most. The chicken; moreover all the animals represent everyone in the film and to an extent everyone in our society. We go to our jobs day to day, we get paid, thats life.(or life as its presented in Stroszek) Stroszek is a street performer; the money goes in his hat and he entertains as long as the money is still there. Eva works the same way. She gets her pay: she entertains. The interpretations from here are nearly endless as most everyone can apply this to their lives in some way so I won't bother getting too specific.
By the way I did enjoy the Thanksgiving connection, I hadn't thought of that one; kudos!
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
"the world is a stage but that man doesn't really know how he got on the stage or what he's supposed to do now that he's there."
that reminds me of the scene in "gummo" where they are wrestling the chair. harmony korine said that he just put a camera crew in the room with those people and let them create their own scene. if you look at the expressions on the faces of the characters as the scene escalates they are saying "is that what you wanted me to do" looking for some approval or affirmation.
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines."
that reminds me of the scene in "gummo" where they are wrestling the chair. harmony korine said that he just put a camera crew in the room with those people and let them create their own scene. if you look at the expressions on the faces of the characters as the scene escalates they are saying "is that what you wanted me to do" looking for some approval or affirmation.
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines."
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
IT's great to see al those different interpretations on the ending! The ending to me was pretty straightforward. Watching the chicken, we see what bruno and his gang did. Whatever it meant, it had a great emotional impact to me!
I also loved the auction of their mobile home. That dude would kick 50 cents butt!
I also loved the auction of their mobile home. That dude would kick 50 cents butt!
Ash: [for no apparent reason] Groovy.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I really like Juanathan's interpretation of the ending.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
With all this discussion of the ending, is it possible to not pay attention to any symbolism or metaphor and instead look directly at the imagery? Everything surrounding Stroszek as he embarks up the mountain (to his death) is cheap entertinament. Even more shallow than materialism, just side-show gags. Without any symbolism we feel a sharp contrast between Stroszek at the end of his run (and a genuine artist) consoled only by dancing chickens and a rabbit that races to the top of a fire truck. This bitter irony is enough for me.
Instead, I focus back on the scenes that proceed this. The beautiful slightly out of focus shots as Bruno attempts to escape the new reality he's found himself in. No shrine awaits his final stop, just more tourist attractions as his life comes to an end. I don't find any other symbolism really necessary.
Instead, I focus back on the scenes that proceed this. The beautiful slightly out of focus shots as Bruno attempts to escape the new reality he's found himself in. No shrine awaits his final stop, just more tourist attractions as his life comes to an end. I don't find any other symbolism really necessary.
Stroszek and the Bible!
So tonight I watched Werner Herzog's Stroszek with my family. Aside from again becoming terribly depressed, I picked up on a lot of the symbolism this time. And I realized what I have realized over and over but have many times forgotten.
"As he came forth naked from his mother's womb, so shall he return, and shall take nothing away with him of his labour. A most deplorable evil: as he came, so shall he return. What then doth it profit him that he hath laboured for the wind? All the days of his life he eateth in darkness, and in many cares, and in misery, and sorrow."
For those of you who have no intention to watch foreign films, I'll quickly summarize the plot and a bit of the message. The film begins at the penitentiary: a sight of freedom and a chance to commence a new life. Bruno Stroszek is released from prison and warned to stop drinking. He has few skills and fewer expectations: with a glockenspiel and an accordion, he ekes out a living as a street musician. He reunites with an old friend, Eva, a prostitute, who is persistently harassed by a couple of thugs, her pimps. After having disappeared one evening, Eva arrives at Bruno's apartment in the morning bruised and bleeding. The two are left with no option. They and Bruno's neighbor, Scheitz, an elderly eccentric, leave Berlin to start over in Wisconsin. In that winter bound, barren prairie, Bruno works as a mechanic, Eva as a waitress. They buy a pre-fabricated home. Then, bills mount; the bank threatens to repossess the trailer. Eva, knowing how to make quick money, returns to her former profession, and Bruno realizes that his escaping from German street-thugs and moving to America brought nothing new to his life. "For he came in vain, and goeth to darkness." He again feels trapped; his relationship with Eva collapses. Worried about her, Bruno goes to the restaurant were she worksto catch her with another man in his semi-truck. The relationship ends with Eva telling Bruno that she intends to head to Vancouver with the trucker and his pals. Bruno returns to his mobile home where a bank representative visits him and informs him that his house will soon be repossessed. The following day Bruno's home is auctioned-off and pulled away from the lot as he and Scheitz stare miserably at the cornfield horizon. The two hop into their car, Scheitz weilding a shotgun, and head toward the bank prepared to, finally, make a difference. The bank doors are locked; it's Sunday. Scheitz, having slipped into radical paranoia, yells, "They're all in this together!" and the two head next door to the barbershop. They rob about thirty dollars, run back to their car, drop the gun off in the car, and walk across the street to the grocery store, to buy some food. While Bruno is checking out (he purchased a large frozen turkey) Scheitz is dragged out of the store by the local police. Turkey in hand, Bruno returns to his car and drives to his auto-repair shop, where he throws his shotgun, the turkey, and about seven cans of beer into the employee tow-truck. And he drives. He drives for hours until his car begins to smoke and he is forced to stop at a hill-town restaurant. He abandons the car (left in drive, tracing circles in the lot and beginning to catch flames) and carries his turkey and gun to a ski-lift where he commits suicide.
I suppose you really have to watch the film to pick up all the symbolism for yourself. The circle plays a huge role in the film. Bruno complains that his life follows a cyclical track. In the final scene, his car is left driving itself in circles, Bruno hops aboard a ski-lift with no one to turn it off and he travels up and down the slope in circles. All these things and a clip of a dancing chicken at the very end have reminded me of the words of King Solomon: "What is it that hath been? the same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? the same that shall be done." He has at last come to terms with reality. He has realized the pattern of his life and his only outlet. Also, he has no way to get off the ski-lift other than by killing himself. But right before the viewer hears the gunshot, Herzog allows us to catch a glimpse of Bruno's face, travelling up the lift. He is smiling. He had looked forward to being released from prison. He had looked forward to housing his friend Eva, and when Berlin was too much, he had looked forward to living in the States. In the end, all Bruno looked forward only to nothing, oblivion.
The final line of the film is:
Deputy Sheriff: We have a 10-80 out here, a truck on fire, we have a man on the lift. We are unable to find the switch to turn the lift off, can't stop the dancing chickens.
"For what profit shall a man have of all his labour, and vexation of spirit, with which he bath been tormented under the sun? All his days axe full of sorrows and miseries, even in the night he doth not rest in mind: and is not this vanity?"
"As he came forth naked from his mother's womb, so shall he return, and shall take nothing away with him of his labour. A most deplorable evil: as he came, so shall he return. What then doth it profit him that he hath laboured for the wind? All the days of his life he eateth in darkness, and in many cares, and in misery, and sorrow."
For those of you who have no intention to watch foreign films, I'll quickly summarize the plot and a bit of the message. The film begins at the penitentiary: a sight of freedom and a chance to commence a new life. Bruno Stroszek is released from prison and warned to stop drinking. He has few skills and fewer expectations: with a glockenspiel and an accordion, he ekes out a living as a street musician. He reunites with an old friend, Eva, a prostitute, who is persistently harassed by a couple of thugs, her pimps. After having disappeared one evening, Eva arrives at Bruno's apartment in the morning bruised and bleeding. The two are left with no option. They and Bruno's neighbor, Scheitz, an elderly eccentric, leave Berlin to start over in Wisconsin. In that winter bound, barren prairie, Bruno works as a mechanic, Eva as a waitress. They buy a pre-fabricated home. Then, bills mount; the bank threatens to repossess the trailer. Eva, knowing how to make quick money, returns to her former profession, and Bruno realizes that his escaping from German street-thugs and moving to America brought nothing new to his life. "For he came in vain, and goeth to darkness." He again feels trapped; his relationship with Eva collapses. Worried about her, Bruno goes to the restaurant were she worksto catch her with another man in his semi-truck. The relationship ends with Eva telling Bruno that she intends to head to Vancouver with the trucker and his pals. Bruno returns to his mobile home where a bank representative visits him and informs him that his house will soon be repossessed. The following day Bruno's home is auctioned-off and pulled away from the lot as he and Scheitz stare miserably at the cornfield horizon. The two hop into their car, Scheitz weilding a shotgun, and head toward the bank prepared to, finally, make a difference. The bank doors are locked; it's Sunday. Scheitz, having slipped into radical paranoia, yells, "They're all in this together!" and the two head next door to the barbershop. They rob about thirty dollars, run back to their car, drop the gun off in the car, and walk across the street to the grocery store, to buy some food. While Bruno is checking out (he purchased a large frozen turkey) Scheitz is dragged out of the store by the local police. Turkey in hand, Bruno returns to his car and drives to his auto-repair shop, where he throws his shotgun, the turkey, and about seven cans of beer into the employee tow-truck. And he drives. He drives for hours until his car begins to smoke and he is forced to stop at a hill-town restaurant. He abandons the car (left in drive, tracing circles in the lot and beginning to catch flames) and carries his turkey and gun to a ski-lift where he commits suicide.
I suppose you really have to watch the film to pick up all the symbolism for yourself. The circle plays a huge role in the film. Bruno complains that his life follows a cyclical track. In the final scene, his car is left driving itself in circles, Bruno hops aboard a ski-lift with no one to turn it off and he travels up and down the slope in circles. All these things and a clip of a dancing chicken at the very end have reminded me of the words of King Solomon: "What is it that hath been? the same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? the same that shall be done." He has at last come to terms with reality. He has realized the pattern of his life and his only outlet. Also, he has no way to get off the ski-lift other than by killing himself. But right before the viewer hears the gunshot, Herzog allows us to catch a glimpse of Bruno's face, travelling up the lift. He is smiling. He had looked forward to being released from prison. He had looked forward to housing his friend Eva, and when Berlin was too much, he had looked forward to living in the States. In the end, all Bruno looked forward only to nothing, oblivion.
The final line of the film is:
Deputy Sheriff: We have a 10-80 out here, a truck on fire, we have a man on the lift. We are unable to find the switch to turn the lift off, can't stop the dancing chickens.
"For what profit shall a man have of all his labour, and vexation of spirit, with which he bath been tormented under the sun? All his days axe full of sorrows and miseries, even in the night he doth not rest in mind: and is not this vanity?"
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
My take is more along these lines too, lvd.
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Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Arthicus, you're definitely wrong Herzog's film supports none of your right-wing values. Though bringing up elements external to the film is questionable, it's the quickest way to prove my point. Herzog is friends with Bruno S, he wrote it specifically for him now tell me do you think Herzog would write a film that says, "look at Bruno S, he's an idiot." Case closed.
As for the turkey thing, I definitely agree. I'd also point out the shotgun, which to me is almost as "American" as the turkey. Remember the two farmers with the guns and the hunters, too.
As for the turkey thing, I definitely agree. I'd also point out the shotgun, which to me is almost as "American" as the turkey. Remember the two farmers with the guns and the hunters, too.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Thank you, Artihcus022. I agree with your interpretation of this movie. He was an idiot. One can obviously interpret larger themes here, but I think you are right on. Something for everyone in this movie, I suppose.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I don't know what artihcus022 said since he seemed to have deleted the original post, but yes, I supposed bruno could be called an idiot. He doesn't understand how the world works, and can't make do for himself. But that doesn't mean we should dismiss him as such and go on with our lives. Some people seem to think that they are solely responsible for their lives and deserve all successes they achieve, but in truth these concepts are ill defined. Is a person somehow responsible for the combination of genes he inherits and events that occurred in his life that shaped his character? As the doctor in the movie points out, we all have impossible questions that we can never answer. Bruno is just a particularly distinctive personification of the difficulties all people face.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I agree with some of what you say,i do agree that this is not anti america or american culture by any means. And i also strongly agree that Stroszek did nothing to achieve his happiness that he was blindly in search for. However- This is the entire point of the filmthat is, perhaps Stroszek is not the idiot, maybe we're all idiots. We're the chickens, dancing for no reason, no promise of a payoff in the end, no rhyme or reason for any of our daily routine, other than to achieve the "american dream". Stroszeks suicide was not cowardice by any regard, however it was his means to the end of a stupid process he couldn't understand.
This process is the painful journy of "existence".
"I'm nostalgic for conversations i had yesterday."- Kicking and Screaming" (Baumbach)
This process is the painful journy of "existence".
"I'm nostalgic for conversations i had yesterday."- Kicking and Screaming" (Baumbach)
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Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
At the risk of sounding pompous, I often find that the best interpretation is no interpretation. Herzog's imagery has a profound effect on me, but I never try to interpret what I'm seeing. I like to just soak it in, in a very visceral way. Of course, I may be inclined to dig a little deeper, but I rarely reach any conclusions about what I'm seeing. Why does that dancing chicken end the film so perfectly? I don't know, but I sure as hell couldn't imagine the movie without it. In many ways, it defines the film. But ask me to explain why, and I couldn't.
I think Herzog very much feels the same way, in that his ideas work, but for no specific reason. I once read an interview where he spoke about how when Martin Luther had been asked what he would do if the world were to end tomorrow, and he had replied "Plant a tree". But Herzog didn't like this because it was optimistic, or that it was defiant, but just because he simply thought that it was a great answer.
I hope it doesn't look like I'm trying to urinate all over the topic, I'm just throwing this perspective out there :)
I think Herzog very much feels the same way, in that his ideas work, but for no specific reason. I once read an interview where he spoke about how when Martin Luther had been asked what he would do if the world were to end tomorrow, and he had replied "Plant a tree". But Herzog didn't like this because it was optimistic, or that it was defiant, but just because he simply thought that it was a great answer.
I hope it doesn't look like I'm trying to urinate all over the topic, I'm just throwing this perspective out there :)
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I don't neccessarily believe there is a definite answer to all the imagery that appears in the ending. What makes the ending so brilliant and memorable is that each viewer can come up with their own interpretation of what is going on. It's ambiguity could annoy you but I think most people really like trying to figure out what it all means even when there are no right answers (even though I'm sure artihcus022 watched a completely different film to the one I did as their reading seems so skewed).
I never really think of this film as being about the American dream and believe you could swap America for pretty much any other country. Stroszek
could move to Britain, Brazil or China and still feel as isolated. Bruno could try to adapt like he does in America (the cowboy hat, lumberjack shirt etc.) but he will still be alienated. They break him in Germany, they break him in America, there is nothing to suggest he won't be broken anywhere else.
I never really think of this film as being about the American dream and believe you could swap America for pretty much any other country. Stroszek
could move to Britain, Brazil or China and still feel as isolated. Bruno could try to adapt like he does in America (the cowboy hat, lumberjack shirt etc.) but he will still be alienated. They break him in Germany, they break him in America, there is nothing to suggest he won't be broken anywhere else.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
I saw the ending in a similar way.
I think Bruno steps out the cafe without knowing where he is going or what he will do next and his actions that follow are just instinctive to his character.
To me, the film is not symbolic or metaphorical, it just captures the events in Bruno's life. When it is symbolic, I think Herzog does it openly and on purpose (e.g the scene with the doctor holding the baby and explaining it to Bruno, and the scene where he explains the little object he made to Eva that represents himself).
I think Bruno steps out the cafe without knowing where he is going or what he will do next and his actions that follow are just instinctive to his character.
To me, the film is not symbolic or metaphorical, it just captures the events in Bruno's life. When it is symbolic, I think Herzog does it openly and on purpose (e.g the scene with the doctor holding the baby and explaining it to Bruno, and the scene where he explains the little object he made to Eva that represents himself).
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
a vehicle with nobody at the wheel goes around and around.
if you are even a little bit familiar with buddhism, that will make a lot of sense.
rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
if you are even a little bit familiar with buddhism, that will make a lot of sense.
rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
By it's very definition, Herzog's so called 'ecstatic truth' (a recurring theme/device in his films) is composed of absurdist, metaphoric imagery woven organically into the context of the film, which has no strict, intended meaning, but plenty of evocative and suggestive potential. Another example would be the boat in the tree in Aguirre: Wrath of God. You can certainly try to pick it apart, but by doing so you risk chopping up the film into a series of concepts and symbols, which is definitely not what Herzog has in mind when he made it.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Great interpretation. This film consumed me for nearly an entire week upon watching it for the first time and it seemingly pops up in my mind quite a bit. It's been months since I've watched it, but
I feel that the part at the end with his truck going in circles and him leaving it, was meant to bring viewers back to the part towards the middle of the film when he says something that questions the fate of his belongings upon his death. Also, on your interpretation of the final scene on the ski lift, I feel that it was meant to represent someone spinning out of control as the ski lift runs in circles (think of a shot-putter spinning quickly, building to the release). The truck and the ski lift gave me that opinion. The animals, however, represent stroszek as a member of society, in my opinion; he works for what he needs even though it makes him feel like just another puppet, and he is never satisfied.
I love how it is quite easy to relate with stroszek throughout the film due to his naive characteristics. And I love how his naive characteristics can be realized by recognition of the fact that he has been imprisoned in past years. In other words, his imprisonment has almost purified him. Great film. One of my favorites.
I feel that the part at the end with his truck going in circles and him leaving it, was meant to bring viewers back to the part towards the middle of the film when he says something that questions the fate of his belongings upon his death. Also, on your interpretation of the final scene on the ski lift, I feel that it was meant to represent someone spinning out of control as the ski lift runs in circles (think of a shot-putter spinning quickly, building to the release). The truck and the ski lift gave me that opinion. The animals, however, represent stroszek as a member of society, in my opinion; he works for what he needs even though it makes him feel like just another puppet, and he is never satisfied.
I love how it is quite easy to relate with stroszek throughout the film due to his naive characteristics. And I love how his naive characteristics can be realized by recognition of the fact that he has been imprisoned in past years. In other words, his imprisonment has almost purified him. Great film. One of my favorites.
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
Hmm, I think all that matters is that one makes an interpretation and leaves it at that.
I thought the car spinning and the animal circus/farm was somewhat related, subconsciously.
Also, (I saw the film for the first time yday) I think Bruno hasn't shot himself, i mean what proof is there
Theres the sound of the bang, but then it switches our attention to the car which has blown up and on fire which brought the police.
I thought the bank robbery, followed by the shopping trip was absurdly hilarious!
One of a special few films that still exist.
I thought the car spinning and the animal circus/farm was somewhat related, subconsciously.
Also, (I saw the film for the first time yday) I think Bruno hasn't shot himself, i mean what proof is there
Theres the sound of the bang, but then it switches our attention to the car which has blown up and on fire which brought the police.
I thought the bank robbery, followed by the shopping trip was absurdly hilarious!
One of a special few films that still exist.
Native American allegory.
The turkey would represent the First Thanksgiving, the symbol of Europeans taking over the Native American's land. The ending of the film is set on Indian land. Here the once proud people are forced into tourism parodies of themselves. Like the Native Americans, Stroszek himself is forced from his home and seems to be at a quandary why this has happened.
Herzog's debunking of the American Dream reinforces the fact that it is the European Dream of Manifest Destiny at the expense of the Native American people.
"A fool and his money soon party!"
Herzog's debunking of the American Dream reinforces the fact that it is the European Dream of Manifest Destiny at the expense of the Native American people.
"A fool and his money soon party!"
Re: Native American allegory.
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." (apocryphal Freud)
"The sky is blue. The water is clear" (Zen teaching)
Sometimes frozen turkeys, 1970s farm-town America's "Indian" tourist traps, shotguns, reposessions, ski lifts, and dancing chickens just are what they are.
"The sky is blue. The water is clear" (Zen teaching)
Sometimes frozen turkeys, 1970s farm-town America's "Indian" tourist traps, shotguns, reposessions, ski lifts, and dancing chickens just are what they are.
Re: Native American allegory.
And sometimes they're more.
Like when they form part of an extended tableau. Spinning driverless trucks that eventually catch fire, coin operated pointlessly performing animals, bright orange Indian chiefs standing in a car park, an endlessly circling out of season ski lift containing a directionless immigrant carrying a shotgun and a turkey in an obviously native American area
Jeez. Could it be any more obvious?
Like when they form part of an extended tableau. Spinning driverless trucks that eventually catch fire, coin operated pointlessly performing animals, bright orange Indian chiefs standing in a car park, an endlessly circling out of season ski lift containing a directionless immigrant carrying a shotgun and a turkey in an obviously native American area
Jeez. Could it be any more obvious?
Re: My take on the ending- major spoilers
The dancing chicken is a kind of metaphor of the American dream. This chicken escapes the slaughter by dancing on command. For a chicken, he's a success!
This, and the car, I took as symbols of futility. Lifeeven the so-called good life is full of endless suffering. And the American dream is the pursuit of said life. It does have strong Buddhist sentiment as someone earlier said: Bruno shoots himself, and the circling car comes to a halt.
The endingwith the turkey, the Indians, symbolizing those first puritans coming to America, bringing their protestant ethic and ultimately setting the tone for what America would become.
This, and the car, I took as symbols of futility. Lifeeven the so-called good life is full of endless suffering. And the American dream is the pursuit of said life. It does have strong Buddhist sentiment as someone earlier said: Bruno shoots himself, and the circling car comes to a halt.
The endingwith the turkey, the Indians, symbolizing those first puritans coming to America, bringing their protestant ethic and ultimately setting the tone for what America would become.
My take on the ending- major spoilers
Before I begin my analysis I have to say this movie for some reason reminded me of Lars von Trier's Dogville. I guess they both seem similar because they are both trying to debunk myths about the American culture.
So on with my interpretation. I believe this ending was supposed to be Thanksgiving. There are many things that show it. Cherokee Indinas are present. Who can forget the frozen turkey that Bruno holds till his death(I interpreted that he killed himself)?One of the greatest American pastimes is having Thanksgiving and one of the greatest accomplishments is bringing home a turkey to your family to eat and you will all be happy. Stroszek has lost his so called family, Eva and Mr. Scheitz, for various reasons. I believe Bruno going up on the ski lift is forshadowing him going up to heaven and that the turkey is the American dream( IF YOU WORK HARD ENOUGH YOUR LIFE WILL BE PLEASURABLE). The only way he will achieve this dream is by killing himself and he will only be happy in death. I thought another sad truth in this film is that even though he moved from Germany to America and he still could not find happiness and that some people wherever they go in this world cannot fuction. As you see the truck burning and as the camera follows the smoke, it is almost completly in sync with how the ski left is going up the mountain bringing both Stroszek and the turkey (the American dream) to their death. I thought the animals were supposed to be mocking the American dream. You see all the animals doing their little jobs like they are supposed but they still get nowhere. I think the car going around in circles recalls a line from the beginning saying something along the lines how life goes around in cirlces and that if Stroszek got caught and thrown in jail his life would just go around in antoher circle. When the truck finally breaks down and goes on fire, he has refused to make his life go around in antoher circle.
Thank you. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. I really want to hear other people's interpretations.