The Thing : Why do people like ambiguous endings?
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
The movie never gives you any concrete evidence to what the Thing's "plans" are.
This completely worked against your original comment that the plot was resolved because the Thing's plans were foiled. So you just move past that and start something else
The Thing was building a ship to escape. They ended those plans. How'd you miss that? No wonder you didn't get the ending. You weren't paying attention. This explains so much.
The point is I do not think it works for this movie.
Who cares? It does.
Which means there is no resolution. There is no ending. There is no answer. The main plot driver is unanswered (or answered by saying "You don't know").
No answer does not mean no ending.
Since when did "I don't know" ever become an answer to a question? It is a response, but it certainly isn't an answer
When that's the only answer.
No. Because resolution must be concrete and absolute.
No. It doesn't.
Yes, the answer is unknown after everything we have been throughWhich means the plot is not resolved.
Not at all. The only thing not resolved is whether Childs is a thing or not.
This will always be an issue of mine, because I want the film to provide resolution.
I'm sorry, but it's not the movie's job to hold your hand for everything.
I do not want to resolve a plot myself.
You don't have to. It's been resolved. The Thing's plan is over. You want an answer to something there isn't an answer to. The movie's over.
Can't stop the signal.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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The Thing was building a ship to escape. They ended those plans. How'd you miss that? No wonder you didn't get the ending. You weren't paying attention. This explains so much.
Perhaps the Thing was building the ship to escape the people here who knew about it and had a chance to kill it. At the end, it is entirely possible that Childs or Macready is a Thing. Therefore, if the Thing's motive is only to avoid destruction, its plan is not foiled.
Perhaps the Thing has no timeline in its motives. It can accomplish them now, a month from now, or a year from now.
You don't know what its motive behind building the ship is. So you do not know what its plan is.
I'm sorry, but it's not the movie's job to hold your hand for everything.
When did I ever say the movie has to provide plot resolution. I never once made this claim. I know it isn't the job of the movie to do this.
But, I also know that if it doesn't, then there is no resolution.
Not at all. The only thing not resolved is whether Childs is a thing or not.
Yet you said this too:
Just like the characters all throughout the movie.
In other words, this is the plot throughout the entire movie. Who is the Thing. We still don't know at the end. Plot not resolved.
You don't have to. It's been resolved. The Thing's plan is over. You want an answer to something there isn't an answer to.
Go look up the definition of resolution. This is about as dense as you can be. If there is no answer, then there is no resolution. That is what resolution means. If you cant solve for an answer there is no resolution. This is logically impossible. How hard is this to understand?
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
You don't know what its motive behind building the ship is. So you do not know what its plan is.
The plan was to build a ship and leave. It didn't.
When did I ever say the movie has to provide plot resolution. I never once made this claim. I know it isn't the job of the movie to do this.
Um, right here:
because I want the film to provide resolution.
And here:
I do not want to resolve a plot myself.
In other words, this is the plot throughout the entire movie. Who is the Thing. We still don't know at the end. Plot not resolved.
Thing's plan is foiled. It's been resolved. Not everything is answered, but it's resolved. It's done.
Go look up the definition of resolution.
"a firm decision to do or not to do something."
See? You don't even need to answer something to have a resolution. Guess that settles that. The no answer is a resolution.
Can't stop the signal.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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The plan was to build a ship and leave. It didn't.
You don't know what its motive was behind leaving. It could have been doing this to avoid being destroyed. If it was only trying to avoid being destroyed, then it may have accomplished this.
because I want the film to provide resolution. I do not want to resolve a plot myself.
What does this have to do with a plot needing to provide resolution. Just because I need it doesn't mean that it must provide it. The movie was likely never made just for me, was it?
I am not silly enough to think that just because I personally enjoy something, this makes it an objective necessity.
The film does need to provide resolution for me to enjoy it. But the film is not required to provide resolution in order to be a fulfilling plot for other people.
Never once have I made this claim.
Thing's plan is foiled.
Like I said, you do not know what its plan is. It may only have wanted to leave to avoid destruction. This is certainly plausible, and at the end it may have avoided destruction.
Plan not foiled. Plot not resolved.
See? You don't even need to answer something to have a resolution. Guess that settles that. The no answer is a resolution.
What? It says a firm decision to do or not do something. In other words, a black and white answer to a question. Yes or no.
That is an answer. Resolution is an answer. Where in its definition could you ever see that you don't need an answer? Since when is "I don't know" a firm answer? Maybe our miscommunication has to do with your not understanding the English language. Is English not your language?
Maybe it will help you if you go look up plot resolution. There is a lot of information on what plot resolution is. I am not just making it up. Perhaps that will help you understand it.
But, it is obvious in your post here that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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preachcaleb might as well forget talking to this guy, we all get why the film ended this way but him, if he had his way we'd see everyone get taken over because we dont know who the thing was at the end, we'll we were in the same position as the cast in that respect we never knew who the thing was until they were cornered, the suspense at the end kinda says to them "after all this killin and explosions i could be sittin right here with the damn thing" thats what i got from that scene i sorry if it was wasted on sawpio, it also made me question childs, who he'd been with etc, i guess never get it so im done explaning.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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wow they were kinda dead anyhow we ALL knew that so the only cliffhanger was if one of them was the thing, they were both dead the only possible outcome here was they die as human, they die as one of them being the thing or they die as both being the thing, (or freezing the thing dont die) either way they are dead only question really is will they be found and brought back to population? that could have been a basis for a sequel. maybe the director wanted us in their shoes not knowing if the other was it, that was the thing that made the movie and people wanna spoil it, go watch a disney movie great endings there, this isnt for you obviously.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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What you dont know is scarier then what you do and that is why we dont know who the thing is at the end. Ambiguity = paranoia, which is the main theme of the film. It ends with us feeling like the last two characters. This way the mystery remains.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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So people have something to discuss on IMDB's message boards.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I guess its a matter of taste. I like movie discussions and I like when myself and a few of my friends each have our own opinions about what happens.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I like them because well you know
// Overall, I.m a bad person.
// Overall, I.m a bad person.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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Funny because I never found it as open ended as everyone else. On just a pure gut level I don't think either of them was an alien because I just like them both so much I would hate to think that, instead they die an honorable, if not unfortunate, death from the elements after sacrificing themselves to save humanity.
Now, if you want to get into a logical reason for that, seems to me if either of them was the alien they would have attacked the other, we saw quite clearly this Thing could easily overpower a single unarmed man, not to mention those two were half dead from exposure so they would be even easier to kill, if they were both aliens they'd have no reason to even be asking the other if they were real or not.
If the two had just slowly walked toward each other, said nothing, sat down in the snow and stared at each other as the film went to credits, then I'd have more of a reason to say there was doubt about them being human.
Now, if you want to get into a logical reason for that, seems to me if either of them was the alien they would have attacked the other, we saw quite clearly this Thing could easily overpower a single unarmed man, not to mention those two were half dead from exposure so they would be even easier to kill, if they were both aliens they'd have no reason to even be asking the other if they were real or not.
If the two had just slowly walked toward each other, said nothing, sat down in the snow and stared at each other as the film went to credits, then I'd have more of a reason to say there was doubt about them being human.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I saw it the same way. Also, even if there was some ambiguity, I am one of the people who loved the ending of the Sopranos, so it wouldn't bother me
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I was never into the Sopranos, just not a mobster kind of person myself, tho I did see a few episodes and I'm sure if mobster stuff is your thing that show would definitely not disappoint.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I love it when it's done right
The Thing and The Shield did it right
I HATED The Sopranos ending. Cutting to black was a cheap gimmick
The Thing and The Shield did it right
I HATED The Sopranos ending. Cutting to black was a cheap gimmick
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Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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it depends on the story. some stories are better left up for the viewer to decide and in some cases a definite conclusion makes sense.
in this case for example the film concluded everything that there was to say. it doesn't matter what happened to the last 2 guys standing and if one of them is the thing. any indication towards either outcome or simply show how it all plays out would just cheapen the ending.
in some other cases it is even important that the viewer decides what will happen next. oldboy for example was done in a way to make sure the chances of each outcome AFTER the end are 50/50. if you watch the cut material, you will see that it would make you lean towards on option and those scenes were cut out intentionally.
if you take cube as another example, the film only works with an open beginning and an open end. everything else would just be stupid and also cheapen the story. the story isn't even about that to begin with. similar case, btw. natali HAD a definitive explanation and he cut out and BURNED (!) the scenes that would give it away.
the book "survivor" by chuck palahniuk has the best ending ever by having no ending at all. the last 5 pages are simply empty.
"
It makes me think that they themselves could not think of how to end it, and it ends up more of a cop out to me. A cowardly clich"The ending is whatever you want it to be". "
in many cases it is, but it would be pretty simple minded to attribute that to this film though.
"This movie is a clear example of too much ambiguity. I liked it, but I hate the ending, basically because there is none. We don't actually know what happens, and any interpretation, though they may contradict, is allowed, which is lazy and incomplete. "
bs. there is a proper ending. what would you gather out of any further informations as to what would happen next?
in this case for example the film concluded everything that there was to say. it doesn't matter what happened to the last 2 guys standing and if one of them is the thing. any indication towards either outcome or simply show how it all plays out would just cheapen the ending.
in some other cases it is even important that the viewer decides what will happen next. oldboy for example was done in a way to make sure the chances of each outcome AFTER the end are 50/50. if you watch the cut material, you will see that it would make you lean towards on option and those scenes were cut out intentionally.
if you take cube as another example, the film only works with an open beginning and an open end. everything else would just be stupid and also cheapen the story. the story isn't even about that to begin with. similar case, btw. natali HAD a definitive explanation and he cut out and BURNED (!) the scenes that would give it away.
the book "survivor" by chuck palahniuk has the best ending ever by having no ending at all. the last 5 pages are simply empty.
"
It makes me think that they themselves could not think of how to end it, and it ends up more of a cop out to me. A cowardly clich"The ending is whatever you want it to be". "
in many cases it is, but it would be pretty simple minded to attribute that to this film though.
"This movie is a clear example of too much ambiguity. I liked it, but I hate the ending, basically because there is none. We don't actually know what happens, and any interpretation, though they may contradict, is allowed, which is lazy and incomplete. "
bs. there is a proper ending. what would you gather out of any further informations as to what would happen next?
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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every film nowadays is wrapped up neatly and predictable the open ended nature of this film is one if no HE reason people are still talking about it, thats the thing you can believe what you want millions of people can see this and take something different away, thats a great selling point i love the ending and i'll carry this to my grave not knowing if they were indeed infected, E.T was bigger than this film here but am i writing on E.T boardsno im here to gauge others opinion on what THEY though happened. it sparks imagination.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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every film nowadays is wrapped up neatly and predictable the open ended nature of this film is one if not THE reason people are still talking about it, thats the thing you can believe what you want millions of people can see this and take something different away, thats a great selling point i love the ending and i'll carry this to my grave not knowing if they were indeed infected, E.T was bigger than this film here but am i writing on E.T boardsno im here to gauge others opinion on what THEY though happened. it sparks imagination.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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The ending isn't really ambiguous. They failed to contain or destroy all the Thing cells. And an ambiguous ending isn't the same thing as a non-ending.
Your whole post reeks of a failure to understand writing.
There is a very clear ending, it's just not a happy one. Mac and Childs are absolutely going to freeze to death and the Thing has not been stopped.
Why should anyone care how you feel about the ending? Who are you that we should give your opinion credence?
The new home of Welcome to Planet Bob: http://kingofbob.blogspot.ca/
Your whole post reeks of a failure to understand writing.
This movie is a clear example of too much ambiguity. I liked it, but I hate the ending, basically because there is none. We don't actually know what happens, and any interpretation, though they may contradict, is allowed, which is lazy and incomplete.
There is a very clear ending, it's just not a happy one. Mac and Childs are absolutely going to freeze to death and the Thing has not been stopped.
Why should anyone care how you feel about the ending? Who are you that we should give your opinion credence?
The new home of Welcome to Planet Bob: http://kingofbob.blogspot.ca/
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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It is your opinion that the Thing has not been stopped. The film does not clearly state this. It is possible that neither Childs or Mac is the Thing, and as such, MacReady may have actually defeated it.
I am not asking you to care about my opinion. I cant care less about what you think about my opinion, that's for sure.
But, ambiguous endings are a copout to me. They signify an inability to conclude the story (by the author), and instead a dependency on the reader/watcher/listener to come up with the conclusion on their own.
It is a complete copout. It is lazy.
I am not asking you to care about my opinion. I cant care less about what you think about my opinion, that's for sure.
But, ambiguous endings are a copout to me. They signify an inability to conclude the story (by the author), and instead a dependency on the reader/watcher/listener to come up with the conclusion on their own.
It is a complete copout. It is lazy.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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It is your opinion that the Thing has not been stopped. The film does not clearly state this. It is possible that neither Childs or Mac is the Thing, and as such, MacReady may have actually defeated it.
No, it's a fact. If even a single Thing cell survived the explosions(which is incredibly likely), it hasn't been stopped. It doesn't matter if either, neither or both are infected at the end. They're both going to freeze to death and the remaining Thing cells will simply be waiting there for the next humans to come. Blowing up the station only spread Thing cells all over the camp. It didn't destroy them.
But, ambiguous endings are a copout to me. They signify an inability to conclude the story (by the author), and instead a dependency on the reader/watcher/listener to come up with the conclusion on their own.
Again, this ending is NOT ambiguous. Childs and Mac are going to die and the Thing cells are just going to wait around until the next humans come. The humans lose. This is not ambiguous. The evidence is there, you just need to put 10 seconds thought into it.
The new home of Welcome to Planet Bob: http://kingofbob.blogspot.ca/
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Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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Ambiguity doesn't always work, but this is a prime example of a successfully ambiguous ending for me.
A bad ambiguous ending is one that offers the viewer too few possibilities to ponder, or at least too few interesting possibilities. A good one, like this one, gives us multiple fascinating possibilities to consider, and keeps speculation still hot after nearly 35 years.
It's certainly not a lazy ending, as you seem to think. It, as well as the entire movie, is the product of clever writing and filmmaking that keeps virtually all of the movie's events uncertain, allowing many equally viable answers to various questions posed throughout the movie.
A bad ambiguous ending is one that offers the viewer too few possibilities to ponder, or at least too few interesting possibilities. A good one, like this one, gives us multiple fascinating possibilities to consider, and keeps speculation still hot after nearly 35 years.
It's certainly not a lazy ending, as you seem to think. It, as well as the entire movie, is the product of clever writing and filmmaking that keeps virtually all of the movie's events uncertain, allowing many equally viable answers to various questions posed throughout the movie.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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As I stated above, ambiguous endings are a cop-out to me. They signify an inability to conclude the story (by the author), and instead a dependency on the reader/watcher/listener to come up with the conclusion on their own.
It is a complete cop-out. It is lazy.
I do not want "multiple possibilities to consider". I want to know what happens. That is why I watch movies. That is why I read books. I have no care or desire to come up with these things on my own. I don't write books. I don't write or direct movies. I have no interest in doing that type of thing.
If I read/watch a story, I want to know what actually happens. That is the whole motivation for me in reading books or watching movies.
I watch Game of Thrones, for example. I can't care less about what is happening right now. In fact, I typically forget most of what happens. I just want to see who wins in the end. That is my whole motivation for watching it.
The ending. It is the most important part of a story for me. And, if I don't get a conclusive ending, I certainly feel like I wasted my time watching the movie/reading the book in the first place.
It is a complete cop-out. It is lazy.
I do not want "multiple possibilities to consider". I want to know what happens. That is why I watch movies. That is why I read books. I have no care or desire to come up with these things on my own. I don't write books. I don't write or direct movies. I have no interest in doing that type of thing.
If I read/watch a story, I want to know what actually happens. That is the whole motivation for me in reading books or watching movies.
I watch Game of Thrones, for example. I can't care less about what is happening right now. In fact, I typically forget most of what happens. I just want to see who wins in the end. That is my whole motivation for watching it.
The ending. It is the most important part of a story for me. And, if I don't get a conclusive ending, I certainly feel like I wasted my time watching the movie/reading the book in the first place.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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That's an interesting point of view, being more interested in how the story ends than how it gets there. I reckon it's highly unusual. Please do elaborate.
I have to admit that it doesn't really make much sense to me; it's fiction, so none of it is real. The ending is completely arbitrary and inconsequential. There's no way to "know what actually happens", because it doesn't actually happen.
Does your being bothered by inconclusiveness extend to real life? Because it seems to me like that would be extremely frustrating.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
I have to admit that it doesn't really make much sense to me; it's fiction, so none of it is real. The ending is completely arbitrary and inconsequential. There's no way to "know what actually happens", because it doesn't actually happen.
Does your being bothered by inconclusiveness extend to real life? Because it seems to me like that would be extremely frustrating.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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It certainly extends to a lot of things I do. For instance, if I play a video game, I am much more interested in its conclusion than the actual playing of the game itself. I don't enjoy games that are "never-ending", such as a lot of those online games. I want there to be a conclusive ending.
Note, this doesn't mean that what happens to "get you there" is completely uninteresting to me at all. But, this interest is more in the moment. I am attentive when it happens, for that point in time, but ultimately, it simply serves in propelling my desire to see what happens in the end.
I tend to forget the details during a book or movie (or video game) and only remember what the ending was.
Take it to a different type of level. Sports. Do you watch sports to see the actual action or are you more interested in who wins? I know the more significant thing to me is seeing who wins. Now, this doesn't mean the game itself while it is being played can't have interesting moments. But, in the end, years from now, the only thing I will remember is who won. Just for your info, a draw is always a letdown to me in games that allow it.
Although, I will admit, if there is some incredible play (in sports) or mind-boggling twist (in a movie or book), I certainly can remember that. But, it takes a very intense and rare play/scene to create this. Like something never seen before.
As for your "fiction" point, if this is truly how you see it, you are basically devaluing the entire book/movie. All of it is fiction, not just the ending. So, why would any of it matter? Why would any of it be interesting?
The bottom line is that it is all part of a story-telling process. A story consists of three parts, a beginning (which is usually the setup), the middle (where the plot is established, and continues to drive the story forward), and the end (where the final reveal occurs, plot drivers/questions are answered, and storylines are concluded.)
Not including an ending, or providing such ambiguity/inconclusiveness in an ending is lazy. This leaves the conclusion up to the viewer/reader, rather than putting the onus on the author to find the answer himself, to conclude his own story.
It is extremely lazy when the main plot drivers are left unanswered. Who is the Thing? Will they stop the Thing? The two main plot drivers that kept me watching the movie culminate with no answer at all. We don't know if either (MacReady, Childs) is the Thing, and as such we don't know if the Thing will be stopped.
It pretty much tells me that the author didn't know the answer himself (possibly wasn't satisfied with his answer making it worse), and therefore copped out by leaving it to the audience.
Note, this doesn't mean that what happens to "get you there" is completely uninteresting to me at all. But, this interest is more in the moment. I am attentive when it happens, for that point in time, but ultimately, it simply serves in propelling my desire to see what happens in the end.
I tend to forget the details during a book or movie (or video game) and only remember what the ending was.
Take it to a different type of level. Sports. Do you watch sports to see the actual action or are you more interested in who wins? I know the more significant thing to me is seeing who wins. Now, this doesn't mean the game itself while it is being played can't have interesting moments. But, in the end, years from now, the only thing I will remember is who won. Just for your info, a draw is always a letdown to me in games that allow it.
Although, I will admit, if there is some incredible play (in sports) or mind-boggling twist (in a movie or book), I certainly can remember that. But, it takes a very intense and rare play/scene to create this. Like something never seen before.
As for your "fiction" point, if this is truly how you see it, you are basically devaluing the entire book/movie. All of it is fiction, not just the ending. So, why would any of it matter? Why would any of it be interesting?
The bottom line is that it is all part of a story-telling process. A story consists of three parts, a beginning (which is usually the setup), the middle (where the plot is established, and continues to drive the story forward), and the end (where the final reveal occurs, plot drivers/questions are answered, and storylines are concluded.)
Not including an ending, or providing such ambiguity/inconclusiveness in an ending is lazy. This leaves the conclusion up to the viewer/reader, rather than putting the onus on the author to find the answer himself, to conclude his own story.
It is extremely lazy when the main plot drivers are left unanswered. Who is the Thing? Will they stop the Thing? The two main plot drivers that kept me watching the movie culminate with no answer at all. We don't know if either (MacReady, Childs) is the Thing, and as such we don't know if the Thing will be stopped.
It pretty much tells me that the author didn't know the answer himself (possibly wasn't satisfied with his answer making it worse), and therefore copped out by leaving it to the audience.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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As for your "fiction" point, if this is truly how you see it, you are basically devaluing the entire book/movie. All of it is fiction, not just the ending. So, why would any of it matter? Why would any of it be interesting?
That's kind of my point; none of it matters, but it can still be interesting depending on how the story is told.
I rarely watch sports (which I'll give you credit for bringing up; it's a great comparison), but when I do it's more about the action than the outcome. I can look up who won and by how much afterwards, after all.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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Well, how it is interesting is completely up to your opinion.
What interests me is the conclusion. How will it end? How will they answer the questions that the plot is asking? How will they tie up the storylines so they make sense? That is what interests me. That is what suspense is all about, and the Thing is certainly driven by suspense.
With sports, I would have to say that you are likely in the minority then. You are basically saying that the score is meaningless. Why does scoring exist in the first place. Why are there certain points awarded depending on the type of score (and the type of sport)? This exists to determine a winner.
Would you want to watch two tennis players just hit the balls back and forth with each other without keeping score? Or would you want to know who is winning?
If you barely watch sports, then this might not make sense to you. But, you can apply this to any type of game where there is a score. Board games, card games, etc. What about chess? Do you play chess?
What is the point of playing a game if it isn't to try to win the game? Sure, you might have fun, but if you have any ounce of competitiveness in you, you likely want to win.
If you don't care at all, then I would say you are in the minority.
What interests me is the conclusion. How will it end? How will they answer the questions that the plot is asking? How will they tie up the storylines so they make sense? That is what interests me. That is what suspense is all about, and the Thing is certainly driven by suspense.
With sports, I would have to say that you are likely in the minority then. You are basically saying that the score is meaningless. Why does scoring exist in the first place. Why are there certain points awarded depending on the type of score (and the type of sport)? This exists to determine a winner.
Would you want to watch two tennis players just hit the balls back and forth with each other without keeping score? Or would you want to know who is winning?
If you barely watch sports, then this might not make sense to you. But, you can apply this to any type of game where there is a score. Board games, card games, etc. What about chess? Do you play chess?
What is the point of playing a game if it isn't to try to win the game? Sure, you might have fun, but if you have any ounce of competitiveness in you, you likely want to win.
If you don't care at all, then I would say you are in the minority.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I'm probably in the minority, yes. I used to play football, and I'm pretty sure most of my teammates cared more about winning than I did.
Competitiveness is really not my cup of tea. I don't like keeping track of who's winning. To me, it sucks the fun out of playing. While I'm interested in doing my best, I'm not particularly interested in quantifying it. Frankly, I've distanced myself from competitiveness as a result of seeing people around me take things way too seriously. Looking at that mentality from more of an outsider's perspective, it now seems extremely odd to me.
Usually when I watch competitive sports, I'm rooting for whoever is the most entertaining to watch. I get kind of funny looks when I point out that I root for Germany against Sweden (where I'm from) in football for that reason, admittedly.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
Competitiveness is really not my cup of tea. I don't like keeping track of who's winning. To me, it sucks the fun out of playing. While I'm interested in doing my best, I'm not particularly interested in quantifying it. Frankly, I've distanced myself from competitiveness as a result of seeing people around me take things way too seriously. Looking at that mentality from more of an outsider's perspective, it now seems extremely odd to me.
Usually when I watch competitive sports, I'm rooting for whoever is the most entertaining to watch. I get kind of funny looks when I point out that I root for Germany against Sweden (where I'm from) in football for that reason, admittedly.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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Well, that simple acknowledgment should show how you are actually in the minority when it comes to how you view things.
The climax is what everything is about. You have heard the sayingIt's bout the journey, not the destinationright?
Why do you think that was written? Because most people care about the end, and couldn't give a hoot about what got them there. People want to know the end. That goes for movies, books, sports, and pretty much everything else.
The climax is what everything is about. You have heard the sayingIt's bout the journey, not the destinationright?
Why do you think that was written? Because most people care about the end, and couldn't give a hoot about what got them there. People want to know the end. That goes for movies, books, sports, and pretty much everything else.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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Of course I'm in the minority when it comes to how I view things. Everyone is. It's just a question of finding the area where they differ. For me, it's competitiveness/sports (among other things, I'm sure). For you, it's the need for conclusiveness (among other things, in all likelihood).
I have heard that saying, yes (I considered putting it in my previous post, but decided against it in favour of elaborating a bit). I also happen to agree with it. It amuses me how you put it forth only to conclude that it implies the opposite of what it says.
Taken to the extreme, wanting to know the end would lead people to skip the entire story except for the final chapter. That's obviously not a common occurrence. I put it to you that the simple fact that it isn't a common occurrence alone proves that people care about how they got to the end. Moreover, I put it to you that since rewatching a movie or rereading a book generally includes the entire story, not just the ending, we know from that that people care about how the story arrives at the conclusion.
You kind of contradict yourself by saying that the climax is what everything's about. The climax precedes the ending. Anyway, it's hardly what everything is about. If it were, it'd be the only thing people talked about.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
I have heard that saying, yes (I considered putting it in my previous post, but decided against it in favour of elaborating a bit). I also happen to agree with it. It amuses me how you put it forth only to conclude that it implies the opposite of what it says.
Taken to the extreme, wanting to know the end would lead people to skip the entire story except for the final chapter. That's obviously not a common occurrence. I put it to you that the simple fact that it isn't a common occurrence alone proves that people care about how they got to the end. Moreover, I put it to you that since rewatching a movie or rereading a book generally includes the entire story, not just the ending, we know from that that people care about how the story arrives at the conclusion.
You kind of contradict yourself by saying that the climax is what everything's about. The climax precedes the ending. Anyway, it's hardly what everything is about. If it were, it'd be the only thing people talked about.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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First, the "ending" doesn't refer to only one moment or one final scene in the story. Just like the "beginning and middle" typically use several scenes to establish the setting and promote the plot, the ending comprises of multiple scenes as well.
The climax is part of the ending. The moment where the "hero confronts (usually for the last time) and defeats the master villain and saves the princess" (as an example).
Sure, other things happen after that typically tying up loose ends, but they are also part of the ending.
What is more amusing is that you don't seem to understand what these sayings are used for. They are used to "preach" typically. Why are they used this way? Because people tend to do the opposite of what a saying like this preaches.
In fact, consider this. When do you typically use a saying such as this? You will likely use it when someone is far more focused on the destination and not giving the journey enough credit. That is what these sayings are for.
And you are taking things to the extreme, certainly. I haven't said the "journey" is completely meaningless. I simply said that I am far more interested in the ending. I can enjoy the journey, but I will tell you this. If the ending is terrible, it typically ruins the whole journey for me. I go through the journey because I am interested in seeing how it all turns out.
If I weren't interested in the destination, I can guarantee you I wouldn't waste my time on the journey.
By the way, to your comment about rewatching a movie or rereading a bookIf I don't like how the story ends, I wont ever waste my time rewatching it or rereading it again. The ending is crucial to this.
The climax is part of the ending. The moment where the "hero confronts (usually for the last time) and defeats the master villain and saves the princess" (as an example).
Sure, other things happen after that typically tying up loose ends, but they are also part of the ending.
What is more amusing is that you don't seem to understand what these sayings are used for. They are used to "preach" typically. Why are they used this way? Because people tend to do the opposite of what a saying like this preaches.
In fact, consider this. When do you typically use a saying such as this? You will likely use it when someone is far more focused on the destination and not giving the journey enough credit. That is what these sayings are for.
And you are taking things to the extreme, certainly. I haven't said the "journey" is completely meaningless. I simply said that I am far more interested in the ending. I can enjoy the journey, but I will tell you this. If the ending is terrible, it typically ruins the whole journey for me. I go through the journey because I am interested in seeing how it all turns out.
If I weren't interested in the destination, I can guarantee you I wouldn't waste my time on the journey.
By the way, to your comment about rewatching a movie or rereading a bookIf I don't like how the story ends, I wont ever waste my time rewatching it or rereading it again. The ending is crucial to this.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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It was left ambiguous to open the door for a sequel. Unfortunately, fared too poorly at the box office for that to happen. The outcome would've been determined by whoever was going to start writing the sequel, and if Russell would've signed on for the next movie.
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Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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Well theyre a thought-provoking way to end a story to me, so well just have to agree to disagree. It has to be done right, though, or else it actually is indicative of laziness or an inability to conclude the story. This movie is filled with open-endedness, allowing each viewer to have their own perception of the events throughout, so it only makes sense to have an open-ended conclusion.
Sometimes I do like a clear-cut ending, and sometimes I like a more open-ended conclusion. Some stories are best left ambiguous at the end, and The Thing is a movie that I dont think couldve ended in any other way (not effectively, anyway). I can only imagine how disappointing it would have been if MacReady and Child destroyed the alien without a shadow of a doubt (cant leave any possible loose ends, remember?) before walking off into the sunset together, or something clichd and spoon-feeding like that.
If the ending is the most important part (or the only important part to you, it seems), then what's the point of watching the rest of the movie? Why wouldn't you skip ahead to the last 10-15 minutes or so and not waste time? You should be more concerned with a satisfying ending, not so much with a conclusive ending. Not to say that conclusiveness is never satisfying in itself, but it sounds like you're saying that an ending simply can't be satisfying unless it leaves absolutely no ambiguity or open-endedness.
Sometimes I do like a clear-cut ending, and sometimes I like a more open-ended conclusion. Some stories are best left ambiguous at the end, and The Thing is a movie that I dont think couldve ended in any other way (not effectively, anyway). I can only imagine how disappointing it would have been if MacReady and Child destroyed the alien without a shadow of a doubt (cant leave any possible loose ends, remember?) before walking off into the sunset together, or something clichd and spoon-feeding like that.
If the ending is the most important part (or the only important part to you, it seems), then what's the point of watching the rest of the movie? Why wouldn't you skip ahead to the last 10-15 minutes or so and not waste time? You should be more concerned with a satisfying ending, not so much with a conclusive ending. Not to say that conclusiveness is never satisfying in itself, but it sounds like you're saying that an ending simply can't be satisfying unless it leaves absolutely no ambiguity or open-endedness.
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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First, I didn't say that the ending is the only important part. I said it is the most important part. If I skipped ahead to the last 10-15 minutes, then the ending might not make any sense. That is what the beginning (setting and set up) and the middle (plot drivers) are for. To get you ready for the climax of the film.
I would argue that if there were no ending, then yes, the other parts end up being completely unimportant. That is what such an ambiguous ending does. It suddenly relegates everything else to meaningless.
Why was the plot driving on questions of "Who is the Thing?" and "Will they stop the Thing?" What was the point of asking those questions? If we don't get answers, then it basically trivializes the entire movie.
It's like me telling you, "You won't believe what happened to me today", and then sitting there and asking you to guess the whole time without actually ever telling you what happened. What is the point?
Satisfying and conclusive go hand in hand (for me, at least).
I would argue that if there were no ending, then yes, the other parts end up being completely unimportant. That is what such an ambiguous ending does. It suddenly relegates everything else to meaningless.
Why was the plot driving on questions of "Who is the Thing?" and "Will they stop the Thing?" What was the point of asking those questions? If we don't get answers, then it basically trivializes the entire movie.
It's like me telling you, "You won't believe what happened to me today", and then sitting there and asking you to guess the whole time without actually ever telling you what happened. What is the point?
Satisfying and conclusive go hand in hand (for me, at least).
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I watch Game of Thrones, for example. I can't care less about what is happening right now. In fact, I typically forget most of what happens. I just want to see who wins in the end. That is my whole motivation for watching it.
The ending. It is the most important part of a story for me. And, if I don't get a conclusive ending, I certainly feel like I wasted my time watching the movie/reading the book in the first place.
Yes, you said it was the most important part, but you also said that you typically forget most of what happens in a story, and that you just want to see who wins in the end. You then say that "without" an ending (or a closed-ended ending), the beginning and middle are rendered completely unimportant. While I agree that they don't work without an ending (ambiguous endings are endings, too), you're prioritizing the ending as if it's the entire point of the story, when the story only works with the beginning, middle, and ending combined. It doesn't work if any of them missing.
Why was the plot driving on questions of "Who is the Thing?" and "Will they stop the Thing?" What was the point of asking those questions? If we don't get answers, then it basically trivializes the entire movie.
To allow the viewer to make up their own minds on them as they see fit. The entire movie is like that, by the way, not just the ending, so it's only fitting (to me, anyway) that the ending be open-ended too, otherwise you have an oddly concrete ending to a movie that's largely shrouded in mystery.
It's like me telling you, "You won't believe what happened to me today", and then sitting there and asking you to guess the whole time without actually ever telling you what happened. What is the point?
No, it's not. In that scenario you told me absolutely nothing, other than the information that something unbelievable happened to you today, to help me even begin guessing what happened. The ending of this movie is preceded by a story driven by characters, events, and information that altogether give us the basis for forming theories concerning what happens after the credits roll, not to mention what's been happening throughout the story up until the end.
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Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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Unsure how many possibilities fyfytj was considering, however, including what you mentioned, I'm thinking:
What will happen when the rescue team arrives?
The Thing can be frozen for a while, but what will happen when enough of it gets somewhere/is able to thaw?
Did Mac and Childs get rescued in time (before they froze?)
On a personal note, I am also hoping to get some resolution as to where the Thing came from? Was it a hostile/intelligent organism or manufactured microbe - or both? (So, not necessarily what happened at the end, but rather, things I'd like to know about what the book and JC's version brought up.)
IMDB - Because some Trolls need more than just a bridge
What will happen when the rescue team arrives?
The Thing can be frozen for a while, but what will happen when enough of it gets somewhere/is able to thaw?
Did Mac and Childs get rescued in time (before they froze?)
On a personal note, I am also hoping to get some resolution as to where the Thing came from? Was it a hostile/intelligent organism or manufactured microbe - or both? (So, not necessarily what happened at the end, but rather, things I'd like to know about what the book and JC's version brought up.)
IMDB - Because some Trolls need more than just a bridge
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Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I'd argue four; I don't think [Mac Human, Childs Thing] and [Childs Human, Mac Thing] should be counted as the same outcome.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.
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Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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What other possibilities were you imagining?
In addition to the three possibilities you mention, there are several other questions to consider:
4. Will the alien kill/assimilate the human or will the human kill the alien (assuming there even is an alien or a human among them)?
5. If one of them is an alien, will it eventually reach civilization, either through escaping the scene we last see, or by taking over whatever rescue team finds the wreckage of the research camp and escaping that way?
6. Where did Palmer's blood go? Remember when MacReady is testing their blood and "Palmer's" blood reacts and sort of "scurries" away? It didn't seem like anybody noticed it amongst the scene at hand, so it was free to escape, probably able to avoid coagulating or drying up as long as it kept moving, until a bird or something got close enough to be assimilated.
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Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
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I'd like to read the whole thread before replying but this seems like one of those threads where people will spoil the endings of other movies.
I'm not a big fan of ambiguous endings. Sometimes they're all right but I usually find them to be cop outs especially when they have to do with the existence or or non-existence of something like an intelligent alien or whatever.
That being said, I don't think The Thing has a very ambiguous ending. I think MacCready and Childs are both human but they'll most likely die anyway.
DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!
I'm not a big fan of ambiguous endings. Sometimes they're all right but I usually find them to be cop outs especially when they have to do with the existence or or non-existence of something like an intelligent alien or whatever.
That being said, I don't think The Thing has a very ambiguous ending. I think MacCready and Childs are both human but they'll most likely die anyway.
DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!
Re: Why do people like ambiguous endings?
This completely worked against your original comment that the plot was resolved because the Thing's plans were foiled. So you just move past that and start something else
Meanwhile, I will respond to all your points.
The point is I do not think it works for this movie. You think that because you say it works, because you think it is powerful, this must be the case objectively?
No. For me, it doesn't work in this movie (or any other movie). Plots must have resolution. That is what is important to me. This movie does not have resolution. (No answer is no resolution).
Which means there is no resolution. There is no ending. There is no answer. The main plot driver is unanswered (or answered by saying "You don't know").
Since when did "I don't know" ever become an answer to a question? It is a response, but it certainly isn't an answer.
No. Because resolution must be concrete and absolute. Are you trying to say that because you view it as powerful and "good", then it must be powerful and "good" to everyone else?
Again, this is impossible. Your interpretation is what makes it powerful and good to you. You resolve the plot for yourself. The film does not do this for you, and because it does not, it is hardly good or powerful to me.
Yes, the answer is unknown after everything we have been throughWhich means the plot is not resolved.
How dense can you be? Go look up what a resolution is. It is an answer. And you admit that at the end of the movie, we do not have the answer. The plot is not resolved, regardless of whether you personally find it powerful or not.
I don't care if you enjoy it or if you interpret it to be powerful. That is you. That is your interpretation. The movie does not confirm your interpretations. My interpretation is just as plausible.
But the fact is that because the film leaves this open to the viewer, the film itself does not provide a resolution. It requires you the viewer to resolve it.
This will always be an issue of mine, because I want the film to provide resolution. I do not want to resolve a plot myself.